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Old 12-29-2012, 09:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question about AKC papers

We just bought our first Doberman after being Rottweiler owners. Our new addition's parents are AKC registered, but our puppy is not due to what the breeder called an "accidental litter". He said females are only allowed to have 1 litter a year, but due to a cage being broken the male slipped in with the female and had a 2nd litter. Does that sound legit? We don't plan on breeding or showing our dog, so it doesn't matter to us but im still curious. Also, when showing us the parents AKC papers, he showed us that the dog shares it's ancestry with a Doberman named Lex Luthor, we have never heard the name but he acted like this was a big deal. Anyways, excited to be first time Doberman owners!
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
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If the parents are akc registered there should be no problem registering the litter and new owners can then register their puppy. Did you see the actual akc registration or just some random pedigree?
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
If the parents are akc registered there should be no problem registering the litter and new owners can then register their puppy. Did you see the actual akc registration or just some random pedigree?
Welcome to DT.

Yes, we have photocopies of the papers for both parents and an extended family tree. So you think we can still register our dog? No truth to the 1 litter per year?
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If you have the full reg name you can go to AKC.org and pull up and verify that they are AKC reg. If they are limited registration which means he bought them without breeding rights then the puppies would not be reg which would mean he has mislead you as AKC has no rule about # of litters - They prefer the bitch not be bred til 18 months and not after 7 and only once a year but that does not mean they will not reg the litter . Sometimes OOOOPs litter happen but this story sounds fishy to me.

I would not want to be invovled with someone who misrepresented facts. Good luck and keep us posted
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Yes, we have photocopies of the papers for both parents and an extended family tree. So you think we can still register our dog? No truth to the 1 litter per year?
You were lied to.

Sorry to be the bearer of that news, but it is what it is. Oh, and no, you cannot register your puppy with the AKC, unless the breeder registers the litter.

Sounds like you were taken in by someone not very knowledgeable or ethical.

Welcome to Doberman ownership, though.

I think you'll find them quite different from the breed you're used to.

Puppy pics are always a hit, here, just sayin'.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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No truth to the one litter a year limit. Lots of BYB and puppy mills breed their bitches practically every heat, which usually works out to two litters a year. I'm wondering if maybe one or both parents has limited registration, in which case, the pups can't be registered. Do you have color copies of the parents registration cetificates?
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well that sucks.. Looks like I'll have to do some investigating. It was a family friend so we just took their word for it. We don't really care, as we have no plans to breed or show but it doesn't feel good to be lied to.


Pics coming! Just got him today.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erin3js View Post
Yes, we have photocopies of the papers for both parents and an extended family tree. So you think we can still register our dog? No truth to the 1 litter per year?
No truth to the one litter per year.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erin3js View Post
We just bought our first Doberman after being Rottweiler owners. Our new addition's parents are AKC registered, but our puppy is not due to what the breeder called an "accidental litter". He said females are only allowed to have 1 litter a year, but due to a cage being broken the male slipped in with the female and had a 2nd litter. Does that sound legit? We don't plan on breeding or showing our dog, so it doesn't matter to us but im still curious. Also, when showing us the parents AKC papers, he showed us that the dog shares it's ancestry with a Doberman named Lex Luthor, we have never heard the name but he acted like this was a big deal. Anyways, excited to be first time Doberman owners!
Congrats on the new litter. Lex Luther was a top dobe and a big producing male of his time he was a big deal back then multiple champ etc. you shouldnt have a problem registering your dog both the parents are AKC reg so it should work just fine. Goodluck with your pup


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Old 12-29-2012, 10:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The AKC copy we has shows a small family tree and it says certified pedigree on the top corner. Also gave us an extended family tree that showed a lineage to this famed(to him anyways) Lex Luthor.


Like I said, not a big deal to us but I don't want anyone to think our little guy is inferior! Thanks for all of the replies, I've always loved Dobermans and I'm excited to learn more.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Do you know how to read a pedigree or how to put the pedigree in a post here?
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I don't! Maybe I can take a picture of it and put it on here.


Let me see if I can post a pic here. Here is the dad, if this works

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Old 12-29-2012, 10:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If you could post a pic of the pedigree that would be great


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Old 12-29-2012, 10:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If you can post the registered name of the mother and father we can find out some info for you.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The reason I asked if you had color copies of the registration certificates, a dog with full registration has a certificate with a purple border, but a dog with limited registration's certificate has an orange border.

And you can't individually register a dog if the litter wasn't registered. The breeder (owner of the bitch when she was bred) is the one who registers the litter.

Even if you can't register your dog, if you want to compete in stuff like obedience or rally, you can apply for a Purebred Alternative Listing after he's neutered.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erin3js View Post
We just bought our first Doberman after being Rottweiler owners. Our new addition's parents are AKC registered, but our puppy is not due to what the breeder called an "accidental litter". He said females are only allowed to have 1 litter a year, but due to a cage being broken the male slipped in with the female and had a 2nd litter. Does that sound legit? We don't plan on breeding or showing our dog, so it doesn't matter to us but im still curious. Also, when showing us the parents AKC papers, he showed us that the dog shares it's ancestry with a Doberman namemd Lex Luthor, we have never heard the name but he acted like this was a big deal. Anyways, excited to be first time Doberman owners!
No, definitely not legit. He probably bought one or both parents with LIMITED AKC registration papers. This means he gave his word, and may have signed a contract, to not breed one or both of his dogs.

Also, saying the female can only have one litter a year is incorrect, unless he signed a contract agreeing to that. Your breeder sounds VERY UNETHICAL!

I would find out who the breeder or breeders are and contact them with this information
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:28 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Wasn't clear above. Meant to say to contact the breeder or breeders of the parents of your puppy.

I would also check the birthdates on the AKC papers and see if they look 'right' age wise for the dogs he says they belong to.

They don't sound like good family friends to me, sorry.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:11 AM   #18 (permalink)
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We don't plan on breeding or showing our dog, so it doesn't matter to us but im still curious.

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Old 12-30-2012, 01:40 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Sigh, posts like this make me sad. OP it is not legit, I am sorry. The greeder in this case either is outright lying to you which would be pretty bad, or they are too ignorant to know the rules. Either way, this is definitely not a breeder I would have supported.

Plus, the poor mother now has had two litters back to back. It is hard on them and I am sorry for her.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:39 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ZeldaRules View Post
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. We looked at 3 sets of Doberman litters before we made our choice, and the one we chose was not the cheapest. We chose our dog because we felt most comfortable with the disposition of it's parents. One litter we looked at, their parents were strictly guard dogs at a business and we weren't allowed 10 feet from the dogs. The other litter, full papers and no issue, had 4 of the 9 puppies die before 6 weeks. These were $3000 dollar puppies, the father had a wall full of trophies like a 12 year old kid. However, we weren't comfortable with losing half the litter. They gaurenteed the health for 7 years, but it didn't feel right. The puppy we ended up with the parents had the disposition we were looking for. The sire was a beautiful dog, yet extremely loving and played with our 1 and 4 year old boys. This being a Doberman specific forum I'm sure it's taken very seriously, but in my humble opinion I don't feel like a piece of paper makes a dog any better than the other, nor does it mean it can perform specific tasks that the other can't. I'm sure you'll disagree, but if we all had the same opinion the world would be a boring place.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The AKC copy we has shows a small family tree and it says certified pedigree on the top corner. Also gave us an extended family tree that showed a lineage to this famed(to him anyways) Lex Luthor.


Like I said, not a big deal to us but I don't want anyone to think our little guy is inferior! Thanks for all of the replies, I've always loved Dobermans and I'm excited to learn more.
Bold is mine.

After re-reading this thread, this kinda jumped out at me.

Why in the world would you think automatically that anyone here would blame the innocent puppy for the wrong actions of humans?

I have always had crappy-bred rescued Dobermans, with lots and lots and lots of conformation--and even temperament--faults, and still they have been welcomed with open arms here, celebrated, and loved by folks who've never met them.

The key is they were adopted from shelters and rescue groups--and no "breeders" were rewarded with my money for their irresponsibility.

To sum up, try to separate your affection and pride for your puppy from what his breeder did and said.

This is a great place for resources about the breed, to share and to learn. Good luck with your new pup.

If you post that pedigree, btw, knowledgeable folks here may be able to give you a heads up on the extent of health problems in the pedigree, as I doubt this breeder was knowledgeable about that, or performed all the standard health testing on the breeding stock.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erin3js View Post
This being a Doberman specific forum I'm sure it's taken very seriously, but in my humble opinion I don't feel like a piece of paper makes a dog any better than the other, nor does it mean it can perform specific tasks that the other can't. I'm sure you'll disagree, but if we all had the same opinion the world would be a boring place.
OP...

Not a piece of paper but generations of proven dogs. Dogs with correct conformation, temperament and health. Even when someone comes here and states "we just want a pet" (and many have) we try to point out that even if it is just a pet you want the healthiest dog you can get. That along with a dobe that is put together correctly because that has an enormous bearing on health. And just as important correct temperament. All these things are proven by dogs being tested.....tested in the ring, tested obedience trials and tested for diseases that affect our breed.

We see so many times people posting about paying above and beyond the norm for a dog only to discover it is the product of a byb.

Sadly you're getting a lesson in honesty from your breeder. You were lied to. Please stay and learn. This is a place with so much info.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I don't feel like a piece of paper makes a dog any better than the other, nor does it mean it can perform specific tasks that the other can't.
I agree with you that a piece of paper doesn't make the dog. But, what that piece of paper does is give you a good idea of what you can expect from your dog, as far as conformation and thus his/her ability to perform tasks. That piece of paper will also give you a good idea of what to expect as far as health and temperament.

I am sorry that you were mis-led by your breeder. Enjoy your puppy and please post pictures. We love pictures here! Welcome to DT.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:24 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Please keep in mind your puppy is the result of breeding pedigrees (not just the sire and dam). I think it's great you did like the sire/dam's temperaments. But again you'd need to evaluate their siblings, their parents, any other offspring for temperament, HEALTH, longevity, etc.

That piece of paper is a goldmine of information with which to make decisions, etc. Some people loved Lex, others not so much and felt he had temperament issues. That dog is behind your dog. I'd do some research myself. I'm not saying if he's bad or good but I'd do the research.
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