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post #1 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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Who has the BEST Doberman head?

Is, or was, there a Doberman who's been said to have the "best" head among the breed (official or unofficial)?

North American or European? Is there a "best" of each?

Has there been more than one over the years who share similar features?

I'd really like to see some pictures of these dogs so I can better understand the terminology of the breed standard and just to familiarize myself with what looks good and what doesn't.

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post #2 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 06:52 PM
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I think this is way to subjective to get a 'real' answer. Everyone seems to interpret what the doberman should look like a bit differently than everyone else. Especially so with heads. Of course there are common features that immediately make a head 'not perfect', but some of it is quite subjective. It also can not be based solely on Ch's considering the judge is looking at the total dog not just a head. (And of course judging is slightly subjective as well)

I can pretty safely say, that few people on here would agree with what I thought was the perfect head for a doberman, just as I would disagree with a lot of people's opinions as well.
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post #3 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 07:09 PM
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Oh, heck, I'll play. Off the top of my head, (no pun intended), I always liked Agador's head.

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post #4 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 07:40 PM
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Oh he is handsome! I definitely enjoy that head shape


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post #5 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 07:43 PM
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Ooooh gorgeous boy
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post #6 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 08:00 PM
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I don't know about the best but I've always loved RP's head.

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post #7 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Agreed. Agador was like a perfect 10. Head, chest, topline, tail set... He should've been a centerfold pin-up!

Ooh, I just made myself sound way creepy.

I realize this is a fairly subjective topic, but I thought those of us who are veterans in the breed (myself excluded) might've formed some opinions over the years. And if enough of those people, who know their sh!t, agreed that a certain dog has "the look", then that dog would consequently gain a reputation over time for having a nice head - as in better than most others. So I suppose it's really more of a question based on unofficial data.

What about head studies? Any data from these studies that suggest one dog has a better head than others?

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post #8 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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He does have a lovely head and a beautiful expression. Love it.

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I don't know about the best but I've always loved RP's head.

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post #9 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
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Agreed. Agador was like a perfect 10. Head, chest, topline, tail set... He should've been a centerfold pin-up!

Ooh, I just made myself sound way creepy.

I realize this is a fairly subjective topic, but I thought those of us who are veterans in the breed (myself excluded) might've formed some opinions over the years. And if enough of those people, who know their sh!t, agreed that a certain dog has "the look", then that dog would consequently gain a reputation over time for having a nice head - as in better than most others. So I suppose it's really more of a question based on unofficial data.

What about head studies? Any data from these studies that suggest one dog has a better head than others?
Technically, this should describe the perfect head
"Long and dry, resembling a blunt wedge in both frontal and profile views. When seen from the front, the head widens gradually toward the base of the ears in a practically unbroken line. Eyes almond shaped, moderately deep set, with vigorous, energetic expression. Iris, of uniform color, ranging from medium to darkest brown in black dogs; in reds, blues, and fawns the color of the iris blends with that of the markings, the darkest shade being preferable in every case. Ears normally cropped and carried erect. The upper attachment of the ear, when held erect, is on a level with the top of the skull.

Top of skull flat, turning with slight stop to bridge of muzzle, with muzzle line extending parallel to top line of skull. Cheeks flat and muscular. Nose solid black on black dogs, dark brown on red ones, dark gray on blue ones, dark tan on fawns. Lips lying close to jaws. Jaws full and powerful, well filled under the eyes."

Many people (based upon popularity here and other forums) like a head that is visually appealing but IMO a bit 'off' from the standard.

One of the things I am the most picky about in the heads is the angulation (not the correct term, but how I think of it). The head in general should be sharp, not rounded and dull. The 'blunt wedge' portion of the standard I tend to be very picky on. Some of them are more like 'dull sloping ovals'. The head widening towards the ears portion, the powerful and full jaws, and the almond shaped eyes are also three things I always pay close attention to, as a lack of either of these three things makes me crazy.

Lol my poor BYB conformation what? dog...
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post #10 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Two things I don't care for are loose jowls and pointy noses. Jowls just don't look right on Dobermans. Great Danes, yes. Dobermans, no. Like you, I agree that their heads and necks should be clean and dry. I don't care for noses that overly protrude past the upper lip. Does that make sense?

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post #11 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 08:30 PM
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I love Jets head. But I don't know enough to say its near the best

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post #12 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenVera View Post
Two things I don't care for are loose jowls and pointy noses. Jowls just don't look right on Dobermans. Great Danes, yes. Dobermans, no. Like you, I agree that their heads and necks should be clean and dry. I don't care for noses that overly protrude past the upper lip. Does that make sense?
I also can't stand a head with too much jowl, I love a nice dry head! I like very clear markings too, not too dark and not muddy! What's between the ears is most important to me though


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post #13 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, he's a handsome dog. He was the sire of my late dog, Levi. Levi had a head very similar to Jet with the exception of a knot on the top of his head. Michelle does have some really beautiful dogs.

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I love Jets head. But I don't know enough to say its near the best

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post #14 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 08:47 PM
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There is no such thing as "the best". Very subjective for sure, but yes, I like Jet's head as well.

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post #15 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 09:38 PM
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All three of the dogs mentioned, Agador, RP, and Jet, have nice planes, dark eyes. and good expression. However, all three are lacking in proper underjaw. If there chin is not evident when viewed from the front, they do not have enough underjaw.

These dogs do have some of the better heads found in the US, but breeders as a whole in the US do not put nearly as much emphasis on proper heads as the breeders in Europe. Do all of the dogs in Europe have good heads? Of course not, but they do put more emphasis on a good head.

Here are a few good ones.









Last edited by Kansadobe; 12-10-2012 at 09:41 PM.
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post #16 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansadobe View Post
All three of the dogs mentioned, Agador, RP, and Jet, have nice planes, dark eyes. and good expression. However, all three are lacking in proper underjaw. If there chin is not evident when viewed from the front, they do not have enough underjaw.

These dogs do have some of the better heads found in the US, but breeders as a whole in the US do not put nearly as much emphasis on proper heads as the breeders in Europe. Do all of the dogs in Europe have good heads? Of course not, but they do put more emphasis on a good head.

Here are a few good ones.

Usually not *too* much of a fan of the del Citone dogs, but I do like this girl's head quite a bit.

Also, seems a lot of working line dogs lately (maybe not so lately as well, idk) with not enough underjaw.
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post #17 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 09:47 PM
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I really like oksamit's head, but truthfully I know nothing about a proper head, just what I find appealing.

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post #18 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 10:12 PM
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There is no such thing as "best", but I like Atom's. I will admit I am horrendously biased on this one.




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post #19 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 10:59 PM
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It's not perfect or the best (could use a little more under jaw I think) but I really love Avril's head. Maybe I'm a little bias.

(Not the best picture)


I think with every head (well every feature) there is room for improvement. And people like different things so I don't think there could ever be an agreement on the best head.
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post #20 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 12:29 AM
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Well, okay. If we are allowed to be biased, then I have to say I love Ethan's head. I don't have any current shots of him, but this is him at 12 months old.


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post #21 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobelove View Post
It's not perfect or the best (could use a little more under jaw I think) but I really love Avril's head. Maybe I'm a little bias.

(Not the best picture)


I think with every head (well every feature) there is room for improvement. And people like different things so I don't think there could ever be an agreement on the best head.
Ah yes, the beautiful Avril. Her head isn't the only lovely thing about her. Here is a head shot I made of her a couple of years back:

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post #22 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 12:40 AM
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Ethan is STUNNING!

I find it hard to tell what a lot of Euro bred dogs look like when I can't find any photos of them with their mouths shut LOL. The ones Kansa posted with their mouths shut are pretty lovely though!


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post #23 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_discowhore View Post
Ethan is STUNNING!

I find it hard to tell what a lot of Euro bred dogs look like when I can't find any photos of them with their mouths shut LOL. The ones Kansa posted with their mouths shut are pretty lovely though!
I agree.

Many I see I do like, but feel you could "see" and evaluate the head better without that gaping mouth and lolling tongue

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post #24 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
I agree.

Many I see I do like, but feel you could "see" and evaluate the head better without that gaping mouth and lolling tongue
Something that I personally don't care for in some of their heads is the fact that their males often have what reminds me of rottie lips. There is nothing dry or clean to a head like that. Huge, loose, sagging lips, often with fatty rottie-like "smile lines" when shown panting (which they usually are). The red dog in Kansa's post illustrates this perfectly. Maybe their standard doesn't call for a dry head with close lying lips though, I don't really know.

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post #25 of 186 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 07:42 AM
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Doug, who is the fourth dog?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansadobe View Post
All three of the dogs mentioned, Agador, RP, and Jet, have n
ice planes, dark eyes. and good expression. However, all three are lacking in proper underjaw. If there chin is not evident when viewed from the front, they do not have enough underjaw.

These dogs do have some of the better heads found in the US, but breeders as a whole in the US do not put nearly as much emphasis on proper heads as the breeders in Europe. Do all of the dogs in Europe have good heads? Of course not, but they do put more emphasis on a good head.

Here are a few good ones.








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