Keno won't stay alone... - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

Keno's Mom · 12-09-2012, 05:43 PM

I probably shouldn't say "alone" because he is never alone,, he has his "brother"Chicko who is a wirehair terrier. Keno is a "VelcroDog" in every term of the word. When he's outside,, he does fine until I close the door. When it was warmer out I would leave the main door open with the screen door closed cause every now and then he would peek in on me,, see what I'm doing then go back to patrolling the yard. Now here in Chicago it's cold out do the door is closed and he's HAVING A FULL FIT. Should I give in and open the door and freeze or let him be a big boy and "Suck it up"?!! Suggestions,,, Advice,,,, Comments...
Oh,, btw.. He will be a year old on the 31st. of December,, in case that's a factor..

**PatchworkRobot** · 12-09-2012, 05:44 PM

I wouldn't ever keep my short-haired, single-layer-coated breed outside when it's cold out... it it snowing there yet? This breed just isn't built for the elements.

Meldrew79 · 12-09-2012, 05:47 PM

It's way too cold to leave him outside. He needs to be inside with you!

AlyssaN · 12-09-2012, 05:58 PM

It's not even just the cold. He wants to be inside with you! Why must he be outside, anyway?

Keno's Mom · 12-09-2012, 06:06 PM

He needs to go out sometimes I thought,, if only to stretch his legs.. Nope it's not snowing yet,,, actually the weather had been unseasonable warm here.

So you guys are suggesting when it snows,, he not go out other than to potty?? What about walks and playtime romps in the snow??

**PatchworkRobot** · 12-09-2012, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keno's Mom

So you guys are suggesting when it snows,, he not go out other than to potty?? What about walks and playtime romps in the snow??

There's a difference between going outside with your dog and leaving your dog outside in the cold while you sit in the warm house - especially when its a dog that was created to be with it's people.

I don't like the cold, and neither does my dog, so when it's particularly bad we go out to do his business and then I tire him out mentally in the house. If/when he needs to stretch his legs I put a coat on him and myself and I suffer with him =P

Keno's Mom · 12-09-2012, 06:34 PM

It's just not possible for him to be with me every hour of the day. It's decent outside and he's out with Chicko. Even when they go in the ubber dog friendly basement wherehis toys,, bull sticks and other blanket bed is,, HE cries. Chico's fine,,.actually looking at him like, "Dude,, really??? What u crying about."

Don't get me wrong,,, I love my boys.. But don't he have to learn that it's ok to be away from me. What about when ppl come over that are afraid of dogs,,.and they HAVE to be in another room than me???

**PatchworkRobot** · 12-09-2012, 06:58 PM

If your dog cannot stand not being with you than you have separation anxiety issues that you need to work on and perhaps seek a trainer for. However, you say he's fine in the warm weather so it sounds to me like this dog, who is not made to handle cold weather, does not like being locked out in the cold.

On a side note - I would not leave my male doberman and another male dog unattended, especially around high-value toys and treats. With the same-sex aggression in this breed it is not something I would risk.

katethegreyt · 12-09-2012, 07:07 PM

First off, sounds like a bit of separation anxiety. Many dogs (especially breeds of the Velcro variety like dobes) need to be taught that being away from you is okay. This is a good short booklet on the issue and how to correct it: http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/sto...Home-Soon.html

Basically you start teaching your dog to be alone in very very short increments with lots of rewards until he can learn you being gone doesn't mean he's being abandoned. There are lots of discussions about this on the Internet as well for free (and I'd imagine on this board).

Secondly, a LOT of dogs dislike being stuck outside without their humans. Get your dog and yourself a coat and go out with him. Or let him in after he's done going to the bathroom and tire him out inside with a training session or some kind of thinking playtime. A lot of dogs won't exercise themselves outside and would much rather be in with their humans. A structured walk is very doable in chilly weather as long as it's not extreme weather. But your dobe will probably need a coat = )

When you do leave him (inside), leave him with something tasty like a stuffed kong. Then he'll be distracted and start to figure out you being gone has at least one upside.

Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App

Keno's Mom · 12-09-2012, 07:11 PM

So he's fine,, sometimes one has to endure things we don't like...

I monitor them together,,, we have established that I am the pack leader and although 50 lbs lighter,, Chico is next in line,, Keno carry himself accordingly..

**PatchworkRobot** · 12-09-2012, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keno's Mom

So he's fine,, sometimes one has to endure things we don't like...

I monitor them together,,, we have established that I am the pack leader and although 50 lbs lighter,, Chico is next in line,, Keno carry himself accordingly..

What if they're in the "ubber dog friendly basement" without you and Keno decides to challenge Chico? I wouldn't risk it with two dogs of the same size, let alone with a dobe and a dog much smaller.

Keno's Mom · 12-09-2012, 07:40 PM

No fights yet, (knock on wood),, of course they argue,, the dust up ends as fast as it starts. The majority of the riffs are not about toys or food,, but about who can sit the closest to me.
Keno's not a aggressive dog at all,,, the cats including the kitten bully him

**PatchworkRobot** · 12-09-2012, 07:54 PM

Please do some reading on the male-male aggression related threads. There is a sticky somewhere, I'll try to find it.

Edit: Here Male on Male Aggression

avianantics · 12-09-2012, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keno's Mom

No fights yet, (knock on wood),, of course they argue,, the dust up ends as fast as it starts. The majority of the riffs are not about toys or food,, but about who can sit the closest to me.
Keno's not a aggressive dog at all,,, the cats including the kitten bully him

Keno is still very young. The change will come later, generally sometime between 18 and 36 months, depending on the dog. With my super friendly, want to play with everybody, very submissive male.... the light went on at about 22 months. I have been around this breed for a long time, so it took nothing more than the look in his eyes for me to know that play time with other boys was a thing of the past.

Please tread carefully or you may come home to find that Keno has injured, or worse killed your little dog.

cmcassity85 · 12-09-2012, 09:42 PM

I would definitely heed the advice everyone is giving.

Why take the chance for something to happen while they are unsupervised? I have a male doberman who is almost 2 and a male lab mix who is almost 4. They are never left unsupervised.

I can tell you (at least in my experience with my doberman) that if any dog tries to "challenge" him he will NOT back down. It's just part of the breed. Our male-male combination works because my lab is not at all dominant and never tries to challenge our dobie. It also works because i never leave our dobie alone with our lab. If we leave to go somewhere we always kennel our dobie up or leave our dobie on the main floor and our lab mix upstairs (with the stairs blocked from them interacting).

This breed is also an "up your butt" breed. They truly do want to be with you all the time. It should be taught that it's ok for them to have their own alone time though (even though it rarely happens

).

Good luck!

nhraformula00 · 12-09-2012, 10:06 PM

We put Sarge 6yr and Tyson 3yr old boxer out in their kennel for 5-10 min,alone. Been doing this for a year now, in Chicago also. Most of the time I will watch them for a few min and they take turns peeing on each others spot. When they are outside they never ruff house as they are both non aggressive towards each other. If you dont start leaving him out by himself he will never get over his anxiety. We never leave them out for more than 5 min if it is 30 degrees or colder out.

Keno's Mom · 12-09-2012, 10:43 PM

Chico is not really big on roughhousing,, but I will find some other separation tactics because I do expect Keno's temperament to change as he enters his "teenage" years.
And as far as him being out side,, he has a large fenced in yard,, he's fine out there as you know nhra,, it's been unseasonably warm here. Keno just wants to sit in my lap because he think he's a 7lb yorkie instead of a 70lb doberman.

Adara · 12-10-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keno's Mom

No fights yet, (knock on wood),, of course they argue,, the dust up ends as fast as it starts. The majority of the riffs are not about toys or food,, but about who can sit the closest to me.
Keno's not a aggressive dog at all,,, the cats including the kitten bully him

Sounds like they are resource guarding the space next to you. I'd work on it ASAP.

My dogs don't typically argue. So if mine were, I'd be working on it. My dogs are NOT perfect

but I don't allow "arguments" either.

Meldrew79 · 12-10-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

it's been unseasonably warm here

It has been warmer, but still weather that you'd want to put a coat on. Dobes are not cold weather dogs and should not be left outside for long periods of time unless they are protected in some way. If they'll be out running around exercising that's one thing, but just hanging out in the yard it gets cold!

Beaumont67 · 12-10-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keno's Mom

I probably shouldn't say "alone" because he is never alone,, he has his "brother"Chicko who is a wirehair terrier. Keno is a "VelcroDog" in every term of the word. When he's outside,, he does fine until I close the door. When it was warmer out I would leave the main door open with the screen door closed cause every now and then he would peek in on me,, see what I'm doing then go back to patrolling the yard. Now here in Chicago it's cold out do the door is closed and he's HAVING A FULL FIT. Should I give in and open the door and freeze or let him be a big boy and "Suck it up"?!! Suggestions,,, Advice,,,, Comments...
Oh,, btw.. He will be a year old on the 31st. of December,, in case that's a factor..

^^^^ SOrry - I can't read all the posts...your attitude "makes me mad".

My last dobey girl never stayed ouside for more than a minute or two (and neither did my 1st 1977 one).
- sunny days/wet or freezing cold...from puppy to old age...she/they had full FREEDOM...4 Life
I also taught her to come in the side door freely, on her choice of time...and I have no paint on one door bottom (to prove it)...lol

Once in the loving home, after seeing her Dad...she picked the leather love seat or the couch, to crawl up on & rest.
- never permission needed, as Amy respected her living arrangements

After she died at 11.7 years old...we still smell her favorite pillow.
- I can't even frigin think of any of my dogs...treated less equal than me, and getting cold outside without a free pass inside
(just whenever they choose, their inside and up in the full comforts, of a loving home...with TV on and much LOVE, offered UP)

Keno's Mom · 12-10-2012, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beaumont67

^^^^ SOrry - I can't read all the posts...your attitude "makes me mad".

My last dobey girl never stayed ouside for more than a minute or two (and neither did my 1st 1977 one).
- sunny days/wet or freezing cold...from puppy to old age...she/they had full FREEDOM...4 Life
I also taught her to come in the side door freely, on her choice of time...and I have no paint on one door bottom (to prove it)...lol

Once in the loving home, after seeing her Dad...she picked the leather love seat or the couch, to crawl up on & rest.
- never permission needed, as Amy respected her living arrangements

After she died at 11.7 years old...we still smell her favorite pillow.
- I can't even frigin think of any of my dogs...treated less equal than me, and getting cold outside without a free pass inside
(just whenever they choose, their inside and up in the full comforts, of a loving home...with TV on and much LOVE, offered UP)

Being angry if fine it's a natural emotion.

What goes on in YOUR HOME is why you have YOUR OWN HOME. Keno and Chico are not allowed on the furniture,,, leather or not, without permission. And there are times when they don't have free range of the house.
And there are times he HAS to go outside,, like it or not,, I'm not asking him to freeze,,, but to cry to come in just because I close the door.. Please..
If you'd not let your anger proceed you reading the post,, you'd read that AS LONG AS THE DOOR WAS OPEN HE'S FINE. But the minute I close the door,, can't see me,, he cries.. Just like a puppy would when you crate him,,, but oh,, you probably didn't use crates.
So Keno is fine outside chasing squirrels and trying to catch birds with his brother..

Adara · 12-11-2012, 09:30 AM

One of the things I meant to comment on is when you said he is "never alone." Is he ever without the other dog? I'm very literal so if I mis-read my apologies

The worst thing we can do is not teach them they are ok alone without people and dogs. If he is never alone, I'd highly suggest working on some times (maybe after this is resolved) where he is by himself alone. He could develop an attachment to the other dog and god forbid if something happens, he might not be ok.

Keno's Mom · 12-11-2012, 11:10 AM

I meant "alone" for the most part. I train them separately,, and walk separately because it's just too much of a hassle to try and walk two dogs,, one of which your trying to teach heel. I didn't mean to be so literal. They also sleep and eat on to different sides of the bedroom and kitchen.