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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Pet shop dobermans..

I need as many opinions as possible. Covering everything. Is a pet shop basically a backyard breeder or buyer of them? Thanks.


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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:22 PM
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Most puppies in pet shops come from dog brokers who buy them from puppy mills.
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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:22 PM
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Pet shops usually get their puppies from puppy mills. To be blunt, yes they are. My advice: STAY AWAY


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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:23 PM
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Pet shops usually get their puppies from bybs. Run far far away.
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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:28 PM
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Not to mention that care and socialization is pretty sub-par.



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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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Up the street from me I found a blue male that would be perfect for us but I made one mistake of buying from a BYB. It's so tempting because of the price and because of the puppy..


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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:30 PM
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Most pet shop puppies get "ordered" from a broker (think along the lines of a "We need 10 Shih Tzu, a dozen Yorkies, 4 Dobes, 2 GSDs, and 15 Labradoodles this week" scenario). The brokers get the puppies (usually purchasing entire litters) from puppy mills, aka "commercial breeders". A small independant store might buy from brokers, probably local BYBs, and might even breed some of their merchandise themselves (we have one of those around here).


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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:30 PM
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Yeah pet shops are usually bad news (puppies from BYBs/Puppy mills), stay clear.
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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:35 PM
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Up the street from me I found a blue male that would be perfect for us but I made one mistake of buying from a BYB. It's so tempting because of the price and because of the puppy..


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Where are you located? Have you looked at the DPCA breeder referral list?


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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:44 PM
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We bought our first dobie from a BYB. Didn't know any better at the time. When we got to the house, we were really surprised to see only female puppies. When I asked about it, the "breeder" said, "Well, we sold all but one female to a pet shop in town. Since you said you wanted a female, we already delivered the males to them and are taking the rest of the females as soon as you pick yours."

The conditions of the house were HORRIBLE! We should have turned and ran away fast! Not really knowing any better, we picked our female. We dealt with temperment problems with her and we had to put her down at 8 years old because of cancer

Stay far, far away from pet shops and BYB!! In my opinion, they are one in the same.
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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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I got xena from a BYB in eastern washington state. She is a great dog but the conditions of the house were terrible and immediately I could see that they live off the pups and docked the tails themselves... I would have ran but I almost felt as if I was rescuing her from that place so couldn't turn her down.


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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:58 PM
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Yes, pet shops are a bad idea. I used to work in one that sold puppies. The owners bought their dogs from brokers. After the puppy goes through everything at the BYB or mill that sells them to brokers puts them through, it then gets put on a truck and shipped. At the pet store, they were kept in cages, and only taken out to be bathed (they step in and sometimes sleep in their own pee/poop, because the store isn't manned 24 hours a day to keep their environment clean), or for people to see them. Keep in mind, we did have employees who tried to take care of the dogs. Conditions in some stores were far worse than the one I worked in.

But what about socialization and health for pet store dogs? Yeah. Tossed onto a truck, shipped halfway across the country, exposed to all sorts of potentially disease transmitting things, kept in a cage in a brightly lit store, and pawed over by everyone who wants to see the cute puppy. 8 weeks old? Sure, unless someone lied about it. That happens frequently. There's ways to cover it up. We'd get puppies who would turn 8 weeks that day or within a few days of their arrival on the truck, which obviously meant they were shipped off at a younger age than that. Good, health tested parents? The 'breeders' weren't required to show proof of any of that. Just the parent's AKC registered names if they wanted the puppies to be eligible for AKC registration.

And don't be fooled if you see an individual name of the breeder on the certificate. Often times, brokers pick an employee to be their representative and put that individual's name on the paper as the breeder. It does make it harder to tell which pups are from local BYBs and which ones come from the big ones and the puppy mills.

Don't believe the AKC registered bunk either. They'll register anything with two parents, four paws, and the ability to breathe. An AKC registration is not a health guarantee or a guarantee that the dog will have a good temperament. We tended to sell the little cute dogs, while bigger breeds were marked down until they were a couple hundred dollars and then sold. We had 4-5 month old puppies who'd been in cages for 2-3 months. Not much socialization or training going on there.

I could go on for a long time. But in short, no reputable breeder is ever going to allow one of their puppies to be put in a cage on a truck, shipped halfway across the country, put in a cage, and then sold to whoever walks in the door with a credit card. Your best bet is to run far away from pet store puppies.
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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 07:05 PM
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OP...

I doubt you will find one DT member who will say anything different than the posters who have already responded to your post.
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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
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Yes, pet shops are a bad idea. I used to work in one that sold puppies. The owners bought their dogs from brokers. After the puppy goes through everything at the BYB or mill that sells them to brokers puts them through, it then gets put on a truck and shipped. At the pet store, they were kept in cages, and only taken out to be bathed (they step in and sometimes sleep in their own pee/poop, because the store isn't manned 24 hours a day to keep their environment clean), or for people to see them. Keep in mind, we did have employees who tried to take care of the dogs. Conditions in some stores were far worse than the one I worked in.

But what about socialization and health for pet store dogs? Yeah. Tossed onto a truck, shipped halfway across the country, exposed to all sorts of potentially disease transmitting things, kept in a cage in a brightly lit store, and pawed over by everyone who wants to see the cute puppy. 8 weeks old? Sure, unless someone lied about it. That happens frequently. There's ways to cover it up. We'd get puppies who would turn 8 weeks that day or within a few days of their arrival on the truck, which obviously meant they were shipped off at a younger age than that. Good, health tested parents? The 'breeders' weren't required to show proof of any of that. Just the parent's AKC registered names if they wanted the puppies to be eligible for AKC registration.

And don't be fooled if you see an individual name of the breeder on the certificate. Often times, brokers pick an employee to be their representative and put that individual's name on the paper as the breeder. It does make it harder to tell which pups are from local BYBs and which ones come from the big ones and the puppy mills.

Don't believe the AKC registered bunk either. They'll register anything with two parents, four paws, and the ability to breathe. An AKC registration is not a health guarantee or a guarantee that the dog will have a good temperament. We tended to sell the little cute dogs, while bigger breeds were marked down until they were a couple hundred dollars and then sold. We had 4-5 month old puppies who'd been in cages for 2-3 months. Not much socialization or training going on there.

I could go on for a long time. But in short, no reputable breeder is ever going to allow one of their puppies to be put in a cage on a truck, shipped halfway across the country, put in a cage, and then sold to whoever walks in the door with a credit card. Your best bet is to run far away from pet store puppies.
All this.

And including being shipped by air, as cargo, some arriving injured or dead, or totally traumatized.

And the fraud, with the registration papers, too many details to cover here--saw it with my own eyes, working as a young person, for one of the largest and "most reputable" pet chains in this country.

As soon as you buy that puppy, one or two more will be ordered from the dog broker, to take its place in that crappy cage.

Dogs shouldn't be "re-stocked" like leashes and collars and fish food and hamster wheels.

Find a reputable rescue or ethical breeder for your new puppy friend.

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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 11:07 PM
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RUN! do not walk, RUN from that pet store!!! in fact...RUN from ANY petstore selling puppies!

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post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 11:23 PM
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I would have thought, by now, that the idea of dogs from pet stores was so well known to be terrible that people wouldn't buy anymore. I suppose people have proven me wrong, yet again.

Either the stigma is so bad here that pet stores don't consider it, or the city or state have made it illegal, because there hasn't been a pet store that actually SOLD dogs or cats or years. Rescue organizations that work with them, however, have gone up recently.


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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 11:29 PM
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You mean that tapping on the glass and making them run back and forth chasing your hand isn't socialization?!

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Not to mention that care and socialization is pretty sub-par.
Have all these puppy buyers just come from a BYB convention or something? Maybe it was one of those time-share weekends where the unsuspecting buyers are lured in by too-good-to-be-true promises of 2-for-1 puppies or a "free pregnant bitch with every purchase" kind of deal.

Y'all are coming out of the woodwork like roaches when the lights turn off.

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post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 11:59 PM
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I've just saw the Doberman puppy at the pet store. Poor condition. Very skinny.
However, the tag was attached, "Sold". OMG!
She's pretty but I would not buy the puppy in that condition.

I know 3 Dobermans purchased at the pet store. 2 have health issues. Both owners are having a hard time in terms of food, exercise and high vet bills.

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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 01:26 AM
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Would never buy a puppy from a pet store. Some pet stores even try to make you believe they come from quality breeders, but they don't. NO reputable breeder would sell to a pet store, THEY would want to chose what homes their puppies go to, not trust a pet store to make a good decision. They will sell to anyone with $$$

We only have one around here now that I know of, and their cages are always filthy and the dogs look sickly. That petstore will sell to anyone, and then convince those people to breed their pup and sell the pups back to them to keep them going.

We used to have a Pet Land that made their pups out to look high quality, dressed their workers up in Animal Control like gear, were very clean and recently groomed, made it out like you were "rescuing" their puppies for $700-$1500 They were run out of town fast.

You know how you can tell if the puppies come from puppy mills? Ask what state the puppies came from, Pennsylvania, among a few others, are top puppy mill states
Pretty much all the pups at Pet Land had tags on them saying they came from Penn


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post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 01:49 AM
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Question : How do you eat an elephant ?

Answer: In small bites

How the uk are tackling puppy farming. It's small steps but it will be banned in this country before long.

http://www.epupz.co.uk/puppyfarm.asp

http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/az/b/batteryfarmeddogs/

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-15622976

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/hopeuk/info.htm

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/5145


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post #21 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 02:53 AM
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We dont have many pet shops over here selling puppies. The only one I can think of is Harrods, where you can get yourself a puppy-mill puppy for about 3000 ($5k)

Whenever I've been to pet stores over in the US, any dogs I've seen in the cages have been extremely poor examples of their breeds. I saw a poor rottie pup (half price as it wa a bit older) which I would have sworn was a black and tan lab mix. I really wanted to 'rescue' him, but I knew giving them any amount of money would just be funding their business and encouraging them to buy in more 'stock'. I figured the state the parents were livig in was probably 10x worse than the awful state he was in.

We all make mistakes, it's about learning from those mistakes and not making them again!



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post #22 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
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I would have thought, by now, that the idea of dogs from pet stores was so well known to be terrible that people wouldn't buy anymore. I suppose people have proven me wrong, yet again.

Either the stigma is so bad here that pet stores don't consider it, or the city or state have made it illegal, because there hasn't been a pet store that actually SOLD dogs or cats or years. Rescue organizations that work with them, however, have gone up recently.
i wish i could say the same for Baltimore and Rockville...this place exists. i even have a friend whose wife's mother had a dog from one of these stores. the dog's a mess...skin issues, neurological issues, GI issues galore. she's a sweet little thing with people, but she can't be around any other animals or she wigs out. plus all the probably genetic problems she has. thankfully my friend has taken over caring for her, so she's in the best hands possible in that family, but man...that dog's a mess.

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post #23 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
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You know how you can tell if the puppies come from puppy mills? Ask what state the puppies came from, Pennsylvania, among a few others, are top puppy mill states
Pretty much all the pups at Pet Land had tags on them saying they came from Penn
Yep. Also look for midwestern states. Ours came from PA, Indiana, Illinois, and a couple of other states.

Some of the puppies are mixed breeds that are registered as purebreds. It happens. Like RFR said, going into registration fraud would take a long time. But registration issues are the least of your concerns with pet store puppies.

And the health problems. Some of them were disclosed, others weren't. We gave puppy buyers a free vet visit- with the vet who had a partnership with the store, of course. I'll let you guys draw your own conclusions about that. Puppies arrived with problems too. Health problems are unavoidable when keeping a large number of puppies in one area, that have come from places where they might have been exposed to things like parvo, kennel cough, etc. Not to mention whatever the customers brought in with their dogs.

We had a whole sales pitch designed to fool people into thinking that the puppies the store sold came from quality breeders and would be healthy and of good temperaments. If you know what to say to someone, you can convince them of just about anything. It's even easier when an adorable fuzzy puppy is staring them in the face, with that wonderful puppy breath, being all snuggly. Folks who bought them didn't even read the contracts spelling out that the store is not liable for certain things, even if it costs the owner hundreds in vet bills or results in a dead puppy. The whole situation is just sad.
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post #24 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 10:38 AM
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We used to have a PetLand here. No PetsMart or Petco, so that was it for bird food.

Well, one time the had a GSD puppy, maybe 16 weeks old. He had been marked down from $1000 to $550, and I'm guessing it was because he was past the "cute baby" stage, and was well on his way to the "big dog" stage. He also could barely stand up, let alone pace his little cage. I wouldnt have been surprized to find out he had bilateral dysplsia.

Another time, they had a "Pomeranian" puppy. I looked at it, and told my husband "There is no way that is a purebred Pom." One of the workers prisses over and says "It is too! It has AKC papers and everything!" My reply? "It may have AKC papers, but that doesn't mean it's a purebred Pomeranian." It looked like a Pom/Eskie mix, quite frankly.

They're gone now, thank doG, but there is a mom & pop pet store/puppymill in a nearby town, churning out small/toy breeds and "designer" mixes.


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post #25 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 11:01 AM
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Pet stores are really not a great place to purchase cats or dogs. I've only seen one pet store that opperated allowing the pups to socialize with dogs and people instead of the typical dogs in cages styles they were groups of pups in pens where people could interact with them only if their hands were sanitized, the girl who worked there was a real clean freak so she kept that place spotless, though I have no respect for pet stores at least that one tried to appeal to the welfare of the pups. The dogs were still ordered by a broker, I find it sickly how one can just place an order on the phone as if they were objects I feel this way for all types of animals even fish :/ either way is say find a reputable breeder or rescue

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