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Old 12-03-2012, 11:32 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by falnfenix View Post
i wish i could say the same for Baltimore and Rockville...this place exists. i even have a friend whose wife's mother had a dog from one of these stores. the dog's a mess...skin issues, neurological issues, GI issues galore. she's a sweet little thing with people, but she can't be around any other animals or she wigs out. plus all the probably genetic problems she has. thankfully my friend has taken over caring for her, so she's in the best hands possible in that family, but man...that dog's a mess.
That's horrifying. Truly, it is. Ironically, even though I haven't seen a place that sells puppies for years, my state, heck, my CITY, is one of the biggest producers for stores like that. I wouldn't be surprised if I know the people producing for that store personally, to be honest. Dogs are considered livestock here.

Sometimes I wish that the internet wasn't real. Then I would be able to go back to thinking that puppy stores are outlawed/stigmatized everywhere, no one rubbed puppy noses in poo anymore, and that people actually genuinely wanted to take care of their animals.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:55 AM   #27 (permalink)
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That's horrifying. Truly, it is. Ironically, even though I haven't seen a place that sells puppies for years, my state, heck, my CITY, is one of the biggest producers for stores like that. I wouldn't be surprised if I know the people producing for that store personally, to be honest. Dogs are considered livestock here.

Sometimes I wish that the internet wasn't real. Then I would be able to go back to thinking that puppy stores are outlawed/stigmatized everywhere, no one rubbed puppy noses in poo anymore, and that people actually genuinely wanted to take care of their animals.
slightly horrifying personal story: i dated someone once, many moons ago, who squealed over the idea of shopping for a puppy at a store like that. they didn't last long.

i don't know if they ever went puppyshopping like they planned, but the rest of their life is essentially loaded with bad decisions, so i wouldn't be surprised if they did. they wanted one of those little mixes...sigh.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:11 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Pet shop = puppy mill dogs

Rescue is about people who donate their time and money to rehabilitate unwanted dogs and place them in suitable homes or provide the final kindness. It is not about buying a puppy from a puppy mill or a BYB.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:22 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Xenabean, you've gone quiet.

Are you still reading?

Are you taking all this in?

I hope we're not just talking to ourselves.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:28 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Oh I'm reading this and I've done all my research the first time around when I bought xena. I'm just trying to figure out what people expect should happen to these pet shop dobermans? Absolutely never be purchased to good homes? I'm thinking about the dog mostly but I love the opinions! Have read every single one. I love this forum so much because of the passion people show for the breed.


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Old 12-03-2012, 10:31 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I'm just trying to figure out what people expect should happen to these pet shop dobermans?
This thread answers that question - Back Yard Breeder Owners
As does another thread that was linked in the first few pages of the thread that I posted.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:36 PM   #32 (permalink)
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People should not shop at pet stores that sell puppies and kittens as a way of boycotting the business. As to what the pet stores should do? Well if they don't sell any of the puppies or kittens they will no longer "order" them from the dog broker. Ideally they go out of business and have to rehome the remainder of the animals for free or give them to a rescue group. If you want to be proactive, foster, volunteer, and adopt a dog from a reputable rescue group or shelter. Do not under any circumstance exchange money for one of these puppies.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:55 PM   #33 (permalink)
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If you want to be proactive, foster, volunteer, and adopt a dog from a reputable rescue group or shelter. Do not under any circumstance exchange money for one of these puppies.
Amen!

Dogs at stores are NOT treated well. It is quite painful to go into a store to see a family buying a little puppy, with their little children dancing around excitedly. If only they really knew what goes on behind the scenes..
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:57 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Thats understandable. It's good to bring up these topics every now and then believe it or not.


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Old 12-03-2012, 11:08 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Every now and then?

It's been repeated ad nauseum, but courtesy of PWR, again from

Ruffly Speaking | More dog information than you require.

Quote:
Ruffly Speaking: I consider him a rescue.
Here’s how it goes:
Person A shows up with a puppy.
Person B says “Oh, such a cutie! Where’d you get him?”

Person A says “Well, I got him from a pet store, but they said he was get*ting so old that they were going to send him back to the broker!”
or
“I got him from some*body sell*ing pup*pies online, and when I got there the con*di*tions were so bad I had to buy him!”
or
“I called a breeder about pup*pies in the Want Ads, and she said that she had a puppy she was going to put down because he was sick!”
or
“When I got there, I knew I shouldn’t buy him, but I bonded instantly with him and I had to take him!”

and they always, ALWAYS end with
“So I consider him a rescue.”

Well, I consider my hand to be a pumpkin pie, but so far reality has not responded to my wishes.
That was NOT a rescue. That was a PURCHASE. And it is a purchase that rewarded, usually amply, the person selling the puppy.

My next favorite part is when person B says someihing like the following:
“Well, it doesn’t mat*ter where dogs come from, as long as they find love!”
or
“I am sure you couldn’t have left him behind!”
or
“I am so glad that you gave him this won*der*ful happy ending!”
or
“I can’t believe nobody bought him before you! Good for you for buy*ing him!”

Two words:
BULL
PUCKY.

Do you REALLY think it doesn’t mat*ter where dogs come from, as long as they get carried off into the sunrise, surrounded by butterflies and the sound of an autoharp? Seriously?

Do you think it does that person a BIT of good to have their PURCHASE given your stamp of approval?

Because here’s who DOESN’T go off into the sunrise:
- All the other dogs in that pet store, which can continue in business another day because YOU just paid their rent and salaries and covered the pittance they paid for that puppy.
- The next corgi puppy or Lab puppy or Shepherd puppy who gets ordered from Hunte Corp. because YOU showed them there’s a market for this breed, so we’d better get two next time.
- The other dogs in that breeder’s home, who will now be bred again because wow, she just covered six months of electric bill in a single day thanks to YOUR check, so she WILL breed those dogs again.
- The mother dog in the puppy mill somewhere in the Midwest, who will be bred again because Hunt corp got a ton of orders for corgis or Labs or Shepherds or Poodles this month.
- The other dogs in your puppy’s litter, who were sold to who knows what people with zero screening or any qualifications other than a credit card.

There is a sacred rule upon which our entire society is built: The end does not justify the means.
It is a GOOD thing that the puppy is going to have a good life. That does not justify the tens or hundreds or thousands of BAD things that had to occur to get him to that point.

Your dog is a rescue if he came from a rescue. A rescue is an organization desperately trying to put itself out of business.
Your dog is NOT a rescue if he came from a pet store. A pet store is a place trying to STAY in business.
Your dog is NOT a rescue if he came from a breeder. And that includes a good one; my puppies are not “adopted” or “rescued” or anything of the kind. I SELL puppies. The difference is that a good breeder doesn’t view anything she does as a business, and if she did she’d be the worst businessperson on the planet. She sells puppies based on the accomplishments of their parents and she loses money. A bad breeder is trying to make breeding their business, selling puppies based on the value of cuteness and maximizing profits however is possible. But even when you buy from the best breeder on earth, YOU ARE NOT RESCUING.

And STOP mouthing those hideous platitudes about how it doesn’t matter where a dog comes from as long as it’s loved. You do no one any favors when you justify giving hundreds or thousands of dollars to a machine that grinds up dogs and spits them out dead.
When you buy from a pet store or puppy mill or bad breeder, you create pain ten times the size of the good you’ve done. When you encourage that purchase, you’re scratching the chin of a business that can only be called evil.

STOP IT.

If you did something wrong, if you made a mistake, even if you knew it was wrong and said heck with it, I’m doing it anyway, OWN IT. Say “I did some*thing really stupid, something I hope you don’t ever do, something I hope nobody ever does.”

If somebody comes to you chirruping about a puppy, say “He’s gorgeous, but you can never, never do that again and here’s why.” Will it offend people? Absolutely. Will they think you’re mean and uncharitable and go away saying “I don’t regret a single thing I did! I’d do it again!” For sure.

But the thing is, they WON’T do it again. The next time they stop in front of a pet store window, they’ll hear your voice and they’ll feel just a little bit ashamed, and they will NOT go back in. They may attribute the wiggle in their gut as a desire for Cinnabon that’s greater than their desire to see a Beagle puppy, but the result is the same. A puppy does not get purchased.

And if enough are not purchased, that pet store will go out of business. Don’t think it can happen? It does all the time. When I was a kid, everybody got every pet from a pet store, and there were little mom and pop pet stores in every town. Now, I can think of only four or five within two hours of me. Those are staying in business because they have the tiny designer dogs of the moment; I haven’t seen a big dog in a pet store in New England in years. IT’S WORKING.

And if enough pet stores go out of business, Hunte will go out of business. And when that happens, thousands of puppy mills will simply shutter their doors. There will be a massive increase in dog auctions for six months and then they’ll blessedly go away. And THAT is the true end we want.

Don’t settle for anything else.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:39 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Rescue organizations that work with them, however, have gone up recently.
There is a Pet Supplies Plus near my work who works with a rescue organization for cats and has a portion of the store devoted to "Kitty City". All the cats either come from the county shelter or other rescuers (like us) to be adopted out. It's completely run by volunteers, the store staff don't have anything to do with that portion of the store. It's a great thing and we are able to find a lot of homeless cats homes this way since they get more exposure than at the hospital or shelter.

This is the *only* time I would consider getting a dog or cat from inside a pet store, if it were only rescue-affiliated. I wonder if some other pet stores who use brokers use that as a fake pitch or ploy to make people think they are rescuing?
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:42 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenabean View Post
Thats understandable. It's good to bring up these topics every now and then believe it or not.


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Old 12-04-2012, 01:21 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burns View Post
There is a Pet Supplies Plus near my work who works with a rescue organization for cats and has a portion of the store devoted to "Kitty City". All the cats either come from the county shelter or other rescuers (like us) to be adopted out. It's completely run by volunteers, the store staff don't have anything to do with that portion of the store. It's a great thing and we are able to find a lot of homeless cats homes this way since they get more exposure than at the hospital or shelter.

This is the *only* time I would consider getting a dog or cat from inside a pet store, if it were only rescue-affiliated. I wonder if some other pet stores who use brokers use that as a fake pitch or ploy to make people think they are rescuing?
The PSP that I go to for Saff's (and now Skoll's, and I'd buy Quetzal's food but they don't sell prefrozen) EVO also is beginning to run cat adoptions, though I don't know from where because I didn't look into it because I don't want another cat right now. There's a That Pet Place/That Fish Place which is a local store which is affiliated with my city's government-run shelter, and we've got a PetSmart that does cats and has been making noises about a greyhound rescue. Dunno about Petco, I was thoroughly unimpressed with the state of their reptile section and have refused to shop there since. As far as I'm aware all of them have their separate volunteers that run the rescue stuff and none or very little of the profit goes to the store, and for TPP/TFP there are products you can buy that also go into the shelter's funds.

That's the only time I've seen cats or dogs in stores around here for the past couple years which is why I was under the impression that they were outlawed. I'm not finding any solid law on it though, so perhaps just stigmatized to the point of pet shop owners not seeing the point anymore. There was a small shop that sold small doodle puppies but they got shut down practically as soon as they set up shop, and that was a few years ago back when I was still in the middle of high school. Before that there were a few mom&pop places that sold puppies that I used to fawn over as a child, very glad I was promptly educated on why not to buy from a pet store, but they've dropped off the radar since. Either way, good riddance. Let's have this everywhere, please?
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:17 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I've said it before, I'll say it again. The bottom line on pet store puppies is that their breeders care so little about them that they don't know and don't care who buys them, where they go, and what happens to them. If there is a problem with their puppies, they will never know and they will never change their breeding programs because they completely removed themselves from the information a buyer could provide to them. No contact, no information, no problem!
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:58 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xenabean View Post
Thats understandable. It's good to bring up these topics every now and then believe it or not.
Sooooo, after every opinion/experience/fact/logical conclusion posted you are still entertaining the idea of *not* believing it? I'm curious OP, where do you come down on this issue now after bringing it up?


QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
You're going to do it anyway.

Freaking awesome.
Sure looks that way, don't it. Another exercise in futility.

Is it National Support a BYB Week or something? They're coming out of the woodwork lately......
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:58 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Oh I'm reading this and I've done all my research the first time around when I bought xena. I'm just trying to figure out what people expect should happen to these pet shop dobermans? Absolutely never be purchased to good homes? I'm thinking about the dog mostly but I love the opinions! Have read every single one. I love this forum so much because of the passion people show for the breed.


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If people stopped buying petshop dogs, the pet stores would stop selling them... which means they would stop breeding for them...
the puppy millers would go out of business
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:04 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Is it National Support a BYB Week or something? They're coming out of the woodwork lately......
I was thinking the exact same thing.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:06 AM   #43 (permalink)
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I just needed the reassurance that my decision to look elsewhere would be the best. I just felt like reading everyone's take on this. Please people do not have panic attacks lol I will not buy from a store... I was only saying I fell in love with a little pup from a pet shop but I fall in love with all dogs so it's easy enough to walk away. Thanks for the opinions!!


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Old 12-04-2012, 10:09 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
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If people stopped buying petshop dogs, the pet stores would stop selling them... which means they would stop breeding for them...
the puppy millers would go out of business
In Toronto, a municipal bylaw bans the sale of puppies and kittens in pet stores. But TO is apparently one of only two Canadian municipalities that have such a law. This is too bad.

Toronto bans the sale of cats and dogs in pet... | CityNews.ca

This could be at least a partial solution in other municipalities as well. Getting a local councillor onside and urging him or her to shepherd a similar motion through the process could pay off.

Some Toronto pet stores now work with the Humane Society and other rescue organizations to hold adoption days on their premises. Which is much preferable to buying "stock" from puppy mills, etc.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:23 AM   #45 (permalink)
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My city banned the "roadside vending" of live animals a few years ago, thank goodness. Now, there are no longer people sitting in shopping center parking lots, selling puppies and kittens out of their cars. It'd be nice if this was the law everywhere.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:53 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilary View Post
Sooooo, after every opinion/experience/fact/logical conclusion posted you are still entertaining the idea of *not* believing it? I'm curious OP, where do you come down on this issue now after bringing it up?


QUOTE]



Sure looks that way, don't it. Another exercise in futility.

Is it National Support a BYB Week or something? They're coming out of the woodwork lately......
I think she means "believe it or not, I do think bringing up these topics every now and again is a good idea"
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:59 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
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My city banned the "roadside vending" of live animals a few years ago, thank goodness. Now, there are no longer people sitting in shopping center parking lots, selling puppies and kittens out of their cars. It'd be nice if this was the law everywhere.
My city did that, too. It gave me such joy to call AC on them and watch in the walmart parking lot while they got a talking to.

Not as much joy as them not having anything to sell because they stopped breeding, but close...
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:02 PM   #48 (permalink)
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My city banned the "roadside vending" of live animals a few years ago, thank goodness. Now, there are no longer people sitting in shopping center parking lots, selling puppies and kittens out of their cars. It'd be nice if this was the law everywhere.
Do people really do this? Yikes!! Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse!
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:18 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Do people really do this? Yikes!! Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse!
Yes, people really do this. I see them at Walmart on the weekends either for free or cheap. They're either in the back of a truck or SUV or in a playpen on the grass. That's how my old neighbors got their dog Addie.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:52 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Oh I'm reading this and I've done all my research the first time around when I bought xena. I'm just trying to figure out what people expect should happen to these pet shop dobermans? Absolutely never be purchased to good homes? I'm thinking about the dog mostly but I love the opinions! Have read every single one. I love this forum so much because of the passion people show for the breed.


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You have to think about the big picture, not the individual dog. By purchasing one of these dogs, all you are doing is giving the puppy mill the money to fund their next litter. So really, how is that helping anything at all? It's creating MORE problems, not helping one tiny bit. That one dog you may have "saved" could very well put 10 new puppies in the exact same situation. That's what you have to think about, and you realize that taking one of these dogs is FAR from saving lives.
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