Back Yard Breeder Owners - Page 8 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Doberman Related Chat If your post does not fit into any other category post here.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #176 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 08:49 AM
Dobes stole my heart <3
 
StarlightDobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,415
Location: Shelby Twp. Michigan
Dogs Name: Nexus - Bella - Lily (R.I.P. Mysti)
Titles: Nexus = Spaztastic - Bella = NoNo Bad Dog - Lily = Tiger Shark!
Dogs Age: Nexus = 4/14/2010 Bella = 2/19/2011 Lily = 6/27/2014
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit StarlightDobe's Gallery
Thanks: 1,079
Thanked 5,721 Times in 2,331 Posts
Images: 6
                     
My BYB story:
We had a beautiful black/rust dober girl, she was 8, she came from a breeder, albeit not as reputable as we oroginally thought but her mom was a Sch. champion, obedience titled and many other things too, and her sire was a Ch. conformation dog. When we got her, she was around $800. She was pet quality, and came from Marty Eis of Eisamar Dobermans.
At 8 yrs old we wanted to get another one, so my husband started checking around, not knowing a thing about BYB, and neither did I. We did try rescue first but got screwed by them, being told we had the dog only to find out she would not let us have it because our current dog was not allowed on furniture. so he began checking ads, and found a girl ready to go to her new home on my birthday and he thought it was a perfect gift for me. We drove all the way to Missouri, to KB Kennels, Mr. Kerwin Abels. Now, he had us meet in a shopping plaza lot, claiming the pup was on a friends farm because he was having his kennel redone. Ok, believable I guess, but strange. We drove for over half an hour to this farm, he ran in, grabbed the puppy and handed her through the window to me. Paperwork had all been done already. We came home. And my nightmare began. I was already in love with this small bundle of energy, and tried endlessly to train her. She was pushy with my Sr. dog, who barely tolerated her for the first few weeks. Then started to play with her more and more. Nexus would steal Mysti's toys, all but one stuffless squirrel Mysti refused to give up to her. She would try to steal Mysti's bed, but would get the sharp side of Mysti's teeth if she did. They did learn to co exist and get along, but sadly we lost Mysti a short 4 months after getting Nexus. After that Nexie was a handful, moping around, sad and bored. we tried training but she had absolutely no interest in learning anythng past sit and down. Her anxiety really started to come out after that, and we had hyperactive issues too. Then she became reactive to dogs and other animals on tv, and to this day it is still a huge nightmare. ((note at this time i still hadnt discovered the forums or got educated on BYB)) We figured she was lonely and needed a playmate so in March of the following year (which would be 2011) we started looking again. We found a local breeder this time with a red girl ready to go after Easter, so we put a deposit on her. A little better breeder but still not top of the line. We brought Bella home in April of 2011.

Now i must backtrack a little to Nexus. Her breeder we discovered through posts on here after I found the forum, has produced MANY litters, and many anxious dogs. I have spoken in pm to 3 different people who have had dogs with anxiety from this breeder, and that is not his worst offense. He self docks his dogs, as we found out on a thread here from an owner who got her dog at 8 weeks with an unhealed tail and a severe infection which almost cost the dog her back leg, possibly her life. They spent thousands of dollars in surgeries to save the dog and leg. Mu dog is horribly reactive, anxious, paces for long periods of time and wont allow another dog other than her "sister" near her. As I said earlier, I love her to death, and will never get rid of her unless there is no other possible choice, then I will put her down to spare her the possible horror of a life with someone who might treat her badly. I have since been educated on proper ethical breeding and if (when) I purchase another dobe it will be from a breeder who knows how to health test, and work or show their dogs.

I can only hope and pray that no other serious health issues turn up in Nexus, as she has become very special to me. She almost died on us once before a year old due to 2 obstruction surgeries and a ruptured intestine. Thank Heaven for pet insurance, it allowed us to concentrate on her health and not on the money, also wonderful vets who gave us a huge break and discounted alot of services and gave us time to pay it when the insurance money came in. Would I still have had those bills if she came from a reputable breeder? possibly, though what she did was out of frustration and if she hadnt had anxiety she might not have destroyed the clothing and doll which caused the obstructions. Maybe her attention span would have allowed us more opportunity to train her properly.

My Bella, although from a BYB is more well adjusted than Nexus, maybe because she was raised in a home with a child and her littermates and not thrown in a barn to wait til someone came to get her. She is patient and tolerant of Nexus, but doesnt let her push her around all the time. She at least had the benefit of a family to raise her in her first weeks .. but this by no means negates her breeding. She is not from health tested parents, she is not from titled parents, shes just from a couple who happens to breed dogs.

BYB's are a bad thing, and if you wnat to consider reputable breeders as playing God with their litters, go ahead, but I can say from all I have read here, if theres a way to eliminate the heartbreaking causes of death in this breed, go for it! If theres a way to get rid of the idiots who do it purely for money like Mr. Abels, do it! I support it and though some people on here might not be nice in how they tell you something, at least they are telling you and trying to educate people on what NOT to do.

There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. - Bernard Williams

R.I.P. Mysti 1/25/02-10/21/10
StarlightDobe is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to StarlightDobe For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (12-04-2012), brw1982 (12-04-2012), Coco Loco (12-04-2012), eighmie (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), Rosemary (12-04-2012), Toby'shuman (12-04-2012)
Advertisement
 
post #177 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 09:08 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,652

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 9,189
Thanked 16,589 Times in 5,110 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
No I do not, I agree with you there.

I will say though, in some cases, they want to experience having a liter, especially in my case, both were AKC, and are very healthy dogs.
If parents want their little darlings to see the miracle of birth, they should also be shown the horror of death. Take them on a little outing to the local shelter and watch the dogs/cats being killed.
VZ-Doberman is offline  
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Auri85 (12-05-2012), bean (12-05-2012), Brandy&Melanie (12-04-2012), brw1982 (12-04-2012), dobedream (12-04-2012), eighmie (12-04-2012), GingerGunlock (12-04-2012), Hilary (12-05-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), Nynaeve (12-04-2012), RedFawnRising (12-04-2012), the_discowhore (12-04-2012), Whiskey (12-05-2012)
post #178 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 09:12 AM
Back Off
 
Asmit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,721
Location: Knoxville, TN
Dogs Name: Zeus, Ascomannis Tarzan
Titles: Zeus:CGC TDI BH Argo: BH CGC IPO 1 Kovu: BH
Dogs Age: 5
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Asmit's Gallery
Thanks: 4,133
Thanked 4,412 Times in 1,340 Posts
                     
Wow not sure if anyone else does but I'm feeling a bit down with all of this rampant BYB puppy mill breeding crap threads lately. I know it's out there but know one HERE seems to be listening to anything and multiple threads are spinning in circles. So disappointing that people are really this naive.
Asmit is offline  
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Asmit For This Useful Post:
bean (12-05-2012), Coco Loco (12-04-2012), dobedream (12-04-2012), EmilyB (12-04-2012), Hilary (12-05-2012), Jazi (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), prairiefire (12-04-2012), PrairieGirl (12-04-2012), RedFawnRising (12-04-2012), Sharly (12-05-2012), ZeldaRules (12-04-2012)
post #179 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 09:20 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,652

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 9,189
Thanked 16,589 Times in 5,110 Posts
                     
It's always been there. The current crop of byb supporters somehow stumbled in here to spew their rhetoric. Reminds me of the tv show "Walking Dead".

Hey!! That's it!!! We have been invaded by zombie bybs and their bitches.
VZ-Doberman is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Asmit (12-04-2012), Auri85 (12-05-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), Whiskey (12-05-2012), ZeldaRules (12-04-2012)
post #180 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 09:23 AM
Alpha
 
Burns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,537
Dogs Name: Red XIII
Titles: CD, RE, RA, RN, CGC, TDI
Dogs Age: 6 years
Gallery Pics: 5
Visit Burns's Gallery
Thanks: 12,293
Thanked 15,359 Times in 4,667 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Click here to find out how Burns became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
I will say though, in some cases, they want to experience having a liter, especially in my case, both were AKC, and are very healthy dogs.
Being AKC registered doesn't mean a thing.

From a good quote in the Pet shop dobermans thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by River View Post
Don't believe the AKC registered bunk either. They'll register anything with two parents, four paws, and the ability to breathe. An AKC registration is not a health guarantee or a guarantee that the dog will have a good temperament.
Basically, all it means is that you mailed in the paperwork to AKC and they gave your dog a number. Congratulations. Sorry, but that is not a justifiable reason to breed *anything*.



Gorrmae's Fantasy Red XIII CD RE CGC TDI
DOB 2/17/07, red/rust, male neutered Doberman
Burns is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Burns For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (12-04-2012), brw1982 (12-04-2012), eighmie (12-04-2012), GingerGunlock (12-04-2012), Hank (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), River (12-04-2012)
post #181 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 09:26 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,652

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 9,189
Thanked 16,589 Times in 5,110 Posts
                     
Considering the reason behind byb breeding their stock ($) I wouldn't be confident the registration papers were accurate.
VZ-Doberman is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012)
post #182 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 09:41 AM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 11,431
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Ilka (Mutt), Leo (GSD); Lily (Pittie)
Titles: Ilka- BN RE CA CGC ITD PKD-T CRO-1 NCO-1; Leo- U-CA ITD PKD-T D-CRO-Preliminary; Lily- NTD PKD-T
Dogs Age: Ilka 6; Leo 4; Lily 1; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 34,244
Thanked 26,724 Times in 8,922 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
Well, I do believe that AKC standards are there for a reason, and the Giant Dobermans that people are trying to sell as "Guard Dogs" are very stupid and that contributes to health issues.
Who do you think is breeding these over-sized dogs? It's certainly not the serious show or working-line breeders. It's the BYBs and greeders who breed over-sized dogs with lousy conformation.

If you want a BIG dog, get a BIG breed. Also changing the temperament is stupid and pointless, if you don't want that sort of dog, then don't get that type of dog. There are many breeds that fit to everyone's standards.
People seem to think that "bigger is better", and instead of informing poeple about the standard, BYBs and greeders simply breed bigger dogs, because that's what sells. And most people probably wouldn't want a Dobe with the proper temperament. They either want a "friendly" dog, or they want a shy, nervous, reactive "guard" dog, who wan't let anyone near them.

Also just a bit of information that I have experienced from the past, Golden Retrievers can be quiet aggressive, don't get me wrong, they are good dogs, but to brag about that for a temperament of a Doberman is not a good thing IMO.
Another case of BYBs ruining a breed. Anytime a breed gets popular, the BYBs come out of the woodwork, trying to cash in on the latest fad. Right now, it's mainly "designer" dogs.
So, in short, you've just made a case for buying from a responsible breeder.


Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained NTD PKD-T ADP-L1
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ITD PKD-T D-CRO-Preliminary
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC ATD PKD-T CRO-1 NCO-1
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~ Requiescat In Pace
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!” Julie Flanery, Founder of Rally FrEe
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (12-04-2012), dobedream (12-04-2012), eighmie (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), prairiefire (12-04-2012), River (12-04-2012), ZeldaRules (12-04-2012)
post #183 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 10:17 AM
Alpha
 
Toby'shuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,026
Location: Spain
Dogs Name: Toby the Dobe, Russell the Andalucian Terrier, Reina the Pointador. Sasha & Jack at the Bridge
Titles: Yep, loads, but none printable. lol
Dogs Age: 7th Nov 2010 -
Gallery Pics: 24
Visit Toby'shuman's Gallery
Thanks: 14,169
Thanked 12,009 Times in 3,789 Posts
Images: 24
                     
I would like to say this, whilst I have found my heart dog in Toby and have fallen for Dobermans in a big way, I do not in any shape or form support BYB's.

Sometimes even after research some of us allow our heart to get the better of our judgement and we end up doing something which doesnt always sit right with others. It doesn't make whatever it is right, neither does it make me or anyone guilty of it, bad.

But as the old saying goes......

To err is human, to forgive is divine.

If I ever get another Dobe in the future it will either be a rescue or from a reputable breeder.

But until then I will just love my Chocolate, Brown, Runt with markings of fire from my Spanish BYB just as much as any one of you guys who have bought ethically from your reputable breeders.

Peace and love to all.
Toby'shuman is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Toby'shuman For This Useful Post:
dobedream (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012)
post #184 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 10:21 AM
Alpha
 
DobbieLovie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 386
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Dogs Name: Wallace and Luna
Dogs Age: May 24th/2012, March 30th 2012
Gallery Pics: 11
Visit DobbieLovie's Gallery
Thanks: 577
Thanked 373 Times in 202 Posts
Images: 11
                     
Send a message via MSN to DobbieLovie
DoberDad90: There's nothing wrong with admiting you're wrong and just accepting and embracing the advise and knowledge that people on here are giving you, I think THAT would have more value that defending a point that no matter from where you look at it its wrong, I completely understand your point about not wanting to spend 2-3k on a pet, that's the way I see it as well, specially because I feed them good food(raw and kibble) and they are super spoiled, and have the best life they could wish for, so even if I'm not investing a lot initially I am doing it in the long term, HOWEVER it doesn't mean that I will go running to a BYB, I don't know exactly why you do it, but even if its because you want to have the puppy experience, well guess what? Luna was rescued when she was 3 months and Maya 7, so I GOT the puppy experience, I'm not missing out on anything, there's lots of doberman puppies out there waiting to be rescued, and I paid 300 and 500 respectively, and not only did I NOT support a BYB but I saved a dog, gained a pet, a new family member.

There's nothing cute about seeing lots and lots of dogs getting ethanized every day...I invite you to go volunteer for even ONE day to a shelter...and see for yourself.

"The word for female dog is not dogette"
DobbieLovie is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to DobbieLovie For This Useful Post:
Burns (12-04-2012), dobedream (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), Nynaeve (12-05-2012), Toby'shuman (12-04-2012)
post #185 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 10:30 AM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 11,431
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Ilka (Mutt), Leo (GSD); Lily (Pittie)
Titles: Ilka- BN RE CA CGC ITD PKD-T CRO-1 NCO-1; Leo- U-CA ITD PKD-T D-CRO-Preliminary; Lily- NTD PKD-T
Dogs Age: Ilka 6; Leo 4; Lily 1; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 34,244
Thanked 26,724 Times in 8,922 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by DobbieLovie View Post
DoberDad90: There's nothing wrong with admiting you're wrong and just accepting and embracing the advise and knowledge that people on here are giving you, I think THAT would have more value that defending a point that no matter from where you look at it its wrong, I completely understand your point about not wanting to spend 2-3k on a pet, that's the way I see it as well, specially because I feed them good food(raw and kibble) and they are super spoiled, and have the best life they could wish for, so even if I'm not investing a lot initially I am doing it in the long term, HOWEVER it doesn't mean that I will go running to a BYB, I don't know exactly why you do it, but even if its because you want to have the puppy experience, well guess what? Luna was rescued when she was 3 months and Maya 7, so I GOT the puppy experience, I'm not missing out on anything, there's lots of doberman puppies out there waiting to be rescued, and I paid 300 and 500 respectively, and not only did I NOT support a BYB but I saved a dog, gained a pet, a new family member.

There's nothing cute about seeing lots and lots of dogs getting ethanized every day...I invite you to go volunteer for even ONE day to a shelter...and see for yourself.
Ha ha, I would have given a lot of money to miss the "puppy experience" with Lucky. doG, I hated having to housetrain a 6 week old puppy (he was fished out of a storm sewer, NOT purchased, by the way).


Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained NTD PKD-T ADP-L1
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ITD PKD-T D-CRO-Preliminary
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC ATD PKD-T CRO-1 NCO-1
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~ Requiescat In Pace
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!” Julie Flanery, Founder of Rally FrEe
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (12-04-2012), dobedream (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), Toby'shuman (12-04-2012)
post #186 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 10:42 AM
Pro Snake Wiggler
 
Jazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,201
Location: Southern MD
Dogs Name: Rebholzer Chasing the Moon "Creed", RIP Skoll
Titles: SDiT, CGCA, WAC, ATT
Dogs Age: 04/12/2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Jazi's Gallery
Thanks: 2,843
Thanked 6,522 Times in 1,678 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burns View Post
Being AKC registered doesn't mean a thing.

From a good quote in the Pet shop dobermans thread:


Basically, all it means is that you mailed in the paperwork to AKC and they gave your dog a number. Congratulations. Sorry, but that is not a justifiable reason to breed *anything*.
And another thing to add, AKC registered doesn't mean reputable or ethical.

I'll tell those supporting BYBs a story. My pastor back when I went to church had these two papered golden retrievers. Sweet dogs, very friendly, well kept and taken care of. The vet thought they were very healthy, and they got many compliments on their dogs and requests for puppies. They were quite pretty, a nice deep gold color that's not quite red but not quite yellow. They definitely had enough money and time to take care of them, what with their kids being almost adults.

So they bred their dogs. They waited until their female was 2, since they'd been told by the vet that they shouldn't breed prior to that, and homes were called for before the litter even hit the ground. They sold the puppies for $300 each. Most of their customers were fellow members of the church, so they knew that they'd go to good homes. In fact, their puppies were such a hit that they were asked to breed their dogs again, so they did the next heat cycle and sold those puppies for $300 each too. Then they waited a year, then produced two more litters for $300 each and kept one of the females from the last litter. Their original two were seniors by this time, so they stopped breeding and had them fixed. Not the new female though.

Well by this time one of the kids who'd already moved out had bought one of their puppies, a female as well. She also bought a male, and after discussion with her parents, bred them together a total of 4 times too. Those puppies went for $400 each, also mostly to churchgoers but some of them were sold via newspaper because many of the churchgoers had a dog already by now.

My pastor and his family kept up with the pups and their new homes, asking how they were occasionally during greeting or after church. I made a discovery overhearing and participating in a few of these conversations. Practically no one had spayed or neutered their dogs, and many of the female owners had already had an "accidental" litter which were also sold for $300 a pop. Practically no one recognized the needs of a Golden, and they were very surprised when their sweet puppy turned into a hyper demonic chewing machine from lack of stimulation. Practically no one understood how to train a dog, so their now-adult dogs still pulled on the leash and had terrible manners and only basic training.

At least three, possibly more by now, had doordashed and been hit by cars. One was converted into an free-roaming outdoor dog by a lady who didn't like that her antiques were destroyed, didn't have a fence, but did have a pond... she drowned. Four were given away to "a farm" (lingo here used around kids when the dog is put down) because they "were bad" and "didn't listen". Two are registered dangerous dogs after biting their children.

Many of these dogs had severe allergies. Their owners constantly grilled my pastor on what he fed his dogs because whatever food they bought was making their dogs itch or go bald or poop patties. Many were reactive on leash and in the house, but fine when offleash or in the yard, and I later learned that my pastor's original two were similar and had to be locked up in the house or they would not stop barking at guests. Nearly all of them were banned from outdoor church meetings, where dogs are welcome, because they would bark and growl at anyone they saw while they were leashed, and the kids were afraid of them.

Now the kicker in all of this? My pastor regrets that he didn't buy a second male, as now his new female is almost a senior herself and too old to be safely bred says the vet. 8 litters. More than 50 puppies. And he regrets only that he wasn't able to produce 4 more litters from his current unaltered girl. That's okay though, two of his kids just bought two more Goldens from someone else and in a few year's time they're planning on breeding them, and hey they'll give good old dad a puppy or two since he wants to breed those anyway.

AKC registered, all of these dogs are papered. My pastor is a fantastic dog owner and takes very good care of his dogs, making sure that he doesn't overbreed his female and always checks up with the vet to make sure she's healthy enough to be bred. His house is clean, and he's genuinely a good person. But he's not a good breeder, and I'm glad my family has never shown much of an interest in Goldens.


SDiT Rebholzer Chasing the Moon CGCA WAC ATT; Creed - Jazi's Stalkin the Light Bringer; Skoll
Just know you're not alone cause I'm gunna make this place your home.
You will never sleep alone, I'll love you long after you're gone.
Jazi is offline  
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Jazi For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (12-04-2012), Burns (12-04-2012), dobedream (12-04-2012), eighmie (12-04-2012), GingerGunlock (12-04-2012), Leliel (12-05-2012), MeadowCat (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), prairiefire (12-04-2012), RedFawnRising (12-04-2012), River (12-04-2012), Rosemary (12-04-2012), Toby'shuman (12-04-2012)
post #187 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 11:08 AM
Alpha
 
DobbieLovie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 386
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Dogs Name: Wallace and Luna
Dogs Age: May 24th/2012, March 30th 2012
Gallery Pics: 11
Visit DobbieLovie's Gallery
Thanks: 577
Thanked 373 Times in 202 Posts
Images: 11
                     
Send a message via MSN to DobbieLovie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
Ha ha, I would have given a lot of money to miss the "puppy experience" with Lucky. doG, I hated having to housetrain a 6 week old puppy (he was fished out of a storm sewer, NOT purchased, by the way).
hehe, definetely not always fun, but some ppl likes to have dogs since puppies because they feel like they create a closer bond...wether this is true or not, I'm just trying to help him see all the different angles and that rescuing doesnt mean that you are stuck with an old or undesirable dog, most of these dogs are good dogs that had bad owners, and a lot of puppies out there, so there's a lot to chose from

"The word for female dog is not dogette"

Last edited by DobbieLovie; 12-04-2012 at 11:33 AM.
DobbieLovie is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DobbieLovie For This Useful Post:
dobedream (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012)
post #188 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 11:46 AM
Small Handful of Woman
 
dobedream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,781
Location: Ontario, Canada
Dogs Name: Roxy
Dogs Age: 5 years
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit dobedream's Gallery
Thanks: 16,058
Thanked 4,512 Times in 1,363 Posts
Images: 4
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeldaRules View Post
Bless you troopers for Rambo-ing on in this train wrecked of a thread! I think I could exhaust my thanks button in this one thread alone.
Me too. And I threw in a "whoops" thank for good measure
I just want to THANK again the rescuers who continue cleaning up the BYB messes, even when it must seem some days that the war on ignorance and selfish neglect rages on and on unhindered.
dobedream is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to dobedream For This Useful Post:
AlyssaN (12-04-2012), Coco Loco (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), RedFawnRising (12-04-2012), River (12-04-2012), ZeldaRules (12-04-2012)
post #189 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 01:05 PM
Alpha
 
Fortheloveofadoberman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 220
Location: Ft Madison IA
Dogs Name: Jasmine: RIP
Titles: no
Dogs Age: 7
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Fortheloveofadoberman's Gallery
Thanks: 301
Thanked 309 Times in 125 Posts
                     
WOW, hmm I will probably go unnoticed with this post lol. Man ya'll kinda scare me geez. I bought my girl from I guess a byb 7 yrs ago. I honestly didn't know that I was getting one from someone in that catagory. I know of puppy mills and I know of people breeding puppies but I guess it's a byb if they are not breeding in the show ring. I know where I got my girl does not do health testing and she does not have any puppies in the ring. Money wasn't an issue for me, but in thinking back to looking at all those websites of stacked dogs, I guess I thought I wasn't showing, so it wasn't necessary to get a puppy from a breeder who had dogs in the ring. I was more concerned about temperment and health too. I really can't say NOW why I chose the breeder I did, but, I didn't know much about this breed had no one to really talk to about them so I searched on the net. I also had a few breeders bash other breeders (not that I was mentioning breeders ) I was overheard at a dogshow and this was told to me. I did not pay an outlandish amount for her, she is my girl, I love her dearly, she does have CVI and from what I know, the best breeder with all the testing can't ward that off. IT is not clear what causes that from the vet who did her surgery. I will not go back to this breeder to get another dog, money is not the issue, but personally I think paying thousands of dollars for a dog is crazy and I find it offensive if someone told me then I shouldn't get a doberman.

In reading all this, I feel sorry for the OP for just wanting conversation; I came here to learn not be condemned for asking and trying to share stories. If this is a site just for breeders then I did join by mistake and I am sorry for being here. I haven't been here long, I have had some very nice people responding to a question I asked and I thank them for their help. I also feel I am invisible most of the time, which I guess is ok I just think if this was just for breeders or people in the show ring, then others who are just average pet owners shouldn't be allowed to join. I just wanted to make some friends, share experiences, and learn something about dogs in general. Thanks for reading if you did.
Fortheloveofadoberman is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fortheloveofadoberman For This Useful Post:
Dictator (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012)
post #190 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 01:16 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,471
Location: TX
Dogs Name: Zelda(siberian husky), Optimus Prime(doberman)
Titles: CGC, Certified Therapy Dog
Dogs Age: 7, 4
Gallery Pics: 12
Visit ZeldaRules's Gallery
Thanks: 9,240
Thanked 21,080 Times in 5,362 Posts
Images: 12
                     
I think the majority of us on this forum are simply pet owners. I don't breed. I do rescue and I do fun training with my dog.
ZeldaRules is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to ZeldaRules For This Useful Post:
bean (12-05-2012), Coco Loco (12-04-2012), DobbieLovie (12-04-2012), dobedream (12-04-2012), Fortheloveofadoberman (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), Nynaeve (12-04-2012), RedFawnRising (12-05-2012), Rosemary (12-04-2012)
post #191 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 01:32 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,652

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 9,189
Thanked 16,589 Times in 5,110 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortheloveofadoberman View Post
WOW, hmm I will probably go unnoticed with this post lol. Man ya'll kinda scare me geez. I bought my girl from I guess a byb 7 yrs ago. I honestly didn't know that I was getting one from someone in that catagory. I know of puppy mills and I know of people breeding puppies but I guess it's a byb if they are not breeding in the show ring. I know where I got my girl does not do health testing and she does not have any puppies in the ring. Money wasn't an issue for me, but in thinking back to looking at all those websites of stacked dogs, I guess I thought I wasn't showing, so it wasn't necessary to get a puppy from a breeder who had dogs in the ring. I was more concerned about temperment and health too. I really can't say NOW why I chose the breeder I did, but, I didn't know much about this breed had no one to really talk to about them so I searched on the net. I also had a few breeders bash other breeders (not that I was mentioning breeders ) I was overheard at a dogshow and this was told to me. I did not pay an outlandish amount for her, she is my girl, I love her dearly, she does have CVI and from what I know, the best breeder with all the testing can't ward that off. IT is not clear what causes that from the vet who did her surgery. I will not go back to this breeder to get another dog, money is not the issue, but personally I think paying thousands of dollars for a dog is crazy and I find it offensive if someone told me then I shouldn't get a doberman.

In reading all this, I feel sorry for the OP for just wanting conversation; I came here to learn not be condemned for asking and trying to share stories. If this is a site just for breeders then I did join by mistake and I am sorry for being here. I haven't been here long, I have had some very nice people responding to a question I asked and I thank them for their help. I also feel I am invisible most of the time, which I guess is ok I just think if this was just for breeders or people in the show ring, then others who are just average pet owners shouldn't be allowed to join. I just wanted to make some friends, share experiences, and learn something about dogs in general. Thanks for reading if you did.
This forum is comprised of breeders, pet owners, service dog owners, performance dog owners, vets, vet techs, and a myriad of other "dobe" people. Your post will not go unnoticed. You'll have responses. Some you'll like, some you won't. It is a forum.

As far as me and Bacchus, well, I bought him as a pet. Then chose an additional path and due to a need he became my service dog. Then we began competing in performance events.

It just goes to show how versatile a doberman is.

Welcome to DT.
VZ-Doberman is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
bean (12-05-2012), brw1982 (12-04-2012), dobedream (12-04-2012), Fortheloveofadoberman (12-04-2012), GingerGunlock (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012)
post #192 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 01:33 PM
formerly eventermal
 
AuraDobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,498
Location: Texas
Dogs Name: Vixie (papillon), Perrin, Guilty, Abra
Titles: Perrin: CH CA DJ CGC WAC ; Guilty: CH CA CGC WAC; Abra: workin' on it!; Vixie: NA NAJ
Dogs Age: V 3/21/05, P 7/17/09, G 1/17/11, A 1/21/14
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit AuraDobe's Gallery
Thanks: 5,561
Thanked 7,502 Times in 2,319 Posts
                     
Send a message via AIM to AuraDobe
Why is it so hard to understand that if you can't or don't want to spend thousands of dollars on a dog purchase, that you go to a rescue?

I just don't get it!

You have two ethical options:
1. Purchase a puppy from a reputable breeder that titles and health tests
2. You rescue and save a life.


CH Treu's Star Witness v Touchstone CA CGC WAC Guilty
Aura's Zatanna Abra AKC ptd.
"Vixie" (Papillon) NA NAJ

Waiting at the Bridge
CH O's Godiva Signature CA DJ CGC WAC Perrin
AuraDobe is offline  
The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to AuraDobe For This Useful Post:
4Dobes (12-04-2012), Adobe4two (01-30-2013), bean (12-05-2012), BenVera (12-04-2012), Brandy&Melanie (12-04-2012), brw1982 (12-04-2012), Burns (12-04-2012), dobedream (12-04-2012), GingerGunlock (12-04-2012), Hilary (12-05-2012), Jazi (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), Nynaeve (12-04-2012), RedFawnRising (12-05-2012), Rosemary (12-04-2012), the_discowhore (12-04-2012), ZeldaRules (12-04-2012)
post #193 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 01:52 PM
Alpha
 
Fortheloveofadoberman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 220
Location: Ft Madison IA
Dogs Name: Jasmine: RIP
Titles: no
Dogs Age: 7
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Fortheloveofadoberman's Gallery
Thanks: 301
Thanked 309 Times in 125 Posts
                     
Thanks I really am interested in this breed I love them dearly, but, I love all animals. I don't think I have noticed so much controversy in a breed like there seems to be with the dobermans. The more I learn, the more confused I get. There are working lines vs American/show lines, to do agility .... being asked what do you want in your dog ? It gets kinda confusing and so many breeders, how do you know who to get a puppy from if you don't do these things? It isn't that I don't want to do this, I just don't live in an area where dog activities are available. I don't mind gettin my knuckles smacked for doing "stupid things" but I just want to know so I don't keep gettin smacked lol. I envy those who have access for all the fun stuff..
Fortheloveofadoberman is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fortheloveofadoberman For This Useful Post:
Dictator (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012)
post #194 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 01:58 PM
u mad?
 
PatchworkRobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,474
Location: Texas
Dogs Name: Rhapsody's Mystery of the Spanish Chest - "Dreizehn", Gaia's Bijort - "Ruthless"
Titles: UKC CH for Dreizehn, CGC for both, CA for both
Dogs Age: Born December 2010, July 2011
Gallery Pics: 5
Visit PatchworkRobot's Gallery
Thanks: 4,845
Thanked 16,097 Times in 4,640 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortheloveofadoberman View Post
Thanks I really am interested in this breed I love them dearly, but, I love all animals. I don't think I have noticed so much controversy in a breed like there seems to be with the dobermans. The more I learn, the more confused I get. There are working lines vs American/show lines, to do agility .... being asked what do you want in your dog ? It gets kinda confusing and so many breeders, how do you know who to get a puppy from if you don't do these things? It isn't that I don't want to do this, I just don't live in an area where dog activities are available. I don't mind gettin my knuckles smacked for doing "stupid things" but I just want to know so I don't keep gettin smacked lol. I envy those who have access for all the fun stuff..
I get where your at. I went from a ridiculously dog friendly area to, basically, the middle of nowhere. That being said, it's perfectly okay to just want a companion. When I first talked to Dreizehn's breeder she asked me what I wanted to do with my future dog and I told her that while I'd love to try agility and other dog sports I really just wanted a best friend and companion and couldn't promise that I'd do anything other than give him the best care that I could.

People ask what you want in a dog because different lines suit different needs. For example - I would not have done well with a working-line dog because they tend to be very high drive. A dog like that and I would not have meshed well at all and that why people ask. It's not done to pry but in hopes of keeping an unsuspecting owner from getting a dog that is too much dog for them. Situations like that usually end with the dog in the shelter, sadly.



No dog is at fault for being born into this world.
PatchworkRobot is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to PatchworkRobot For This Useful Post:
bean (12-05-2012), brw1982 (12-04-2012), dobedream (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), RedFawnRising (12-05-2012), Rosemary (12-04-2012), Toby'shuman (12-04-2012), ZeldaRules (12-04-2012)
post #195 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 02:01 PM
Get the bunnies!
 
the_discowhore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,024
Location: Middle Earth
Dogs Name: Elsie & Ping
Titles: CDX UDX TT1 JDX AD RA

Gallery Pics: 6
Visit the_discowhore's Gallery
Thanks: 14,214
Thanked 17,371 Times in 5,084 Posts
Images: 6
                     
There is controversy in every single breed... European Vs America, Working Vs. Show, Working Vs. Performance... You want drama, go and check out a working border collie board (actual working, NOT sport collies).

Also not a breeder here, just a pet owner and sports enthusiast There aren't actually that many breeders on this forum, and I think I've seen maybe 2 or 3 respond to this thread (thought I have not read the whole thing....)


Do it or Elsie CDX UDX TT1 JDX AD RA
Ch Alarves Completely Awesome (IMP Aus)
the_discowhore is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to the_discowhore For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (12-04-2012), GingerGunlock (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), RedFawnRising (12-05-2012)
post #196 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 02:35 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,652

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 9,189
Thanked 16,589 Times in 5,110 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortheloveofadoberman View Post
Thanks I really am interested in this breed I love them dearly, but, I love all animals. I don't think I have noticed so much controversy in a breed like there seems to be with the dobermans. The more I learn, the more confused I get. There are working lines vs American/show lines, to do agility .... being asked what do you want in your dog ? It gets kinda confusing and so many breeders, how do you know who to get a puppy from if you don't do these things? It isn't that I don't want to do this, I just don't live in an area where dog activities are available. I don't mind gettin my knuckles smacked for doing "stupid things" but I just want to know so I don't keep gettin smacked lol. I envy those who have access for all the fun stuff..
Check out the UKC website. They have activities much like AKC. And when I lived in Illinois there were UKC events all over the place.
VZ-Doberman is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012)
post #197 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 08:44 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 45
Dogs Name: Fred and TBA
Dogs Age: 3 years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit DoberDad90's Gallery
Thanks: 6
Thanked 37 Times in 32 Posts
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DobbieLovie View Post
DoberDad90: There's nothing wrong with admiting you're wrong and just accepting and embracing the advise and knowledge that people on here are giving you, I think THAT would have more value that defending a point that no matter from where you look at it its wrong, I completely understand your point about not wanting to spend 2-3k on a pet, that's the way I see it as well, specially because I feed them good food(raw and kibble) and they are super spoiled, and have the best life they could wish for, so even if I'm not investing a lot initially I am doing it in the long term, HOWEVER it doesn't mean that I will go running to a BYB, I don't know exactly why you do it, but even if its because you want to have the puppy experience, well guess what? Luna was rescued when she was 3 months and Maya 7, so I GOT the puppy experience, I'm not missing out on anything, there's lots of doberman puppies out there waiting to be rescued, and I paid 300 and 500 respectively, and not only did I NOT support a BYB but I saved a dog, gained a pet, a new family member.

There's nothing cute about seeing lots and lots of dogs getting ethanized every day...I invite you to go volunteer for even ONE day to a shelter...and see for yourself.
I actually have done 4 days at our local shelter and helped out, not to mention watch my best friend of 13 years get put down, I know how it is, but you also need to understand especially from a shelter prospective, some of the dogs are show quality and have done nothing wrong, especially in my town, people either lose their dogs and don't look for them, turn them in or let them go on the side of the road.

It's not all about the breeder, it's about the owners, and being involved through law enforcement over the years, appearances may be deceiving and some scum bags do have money and still have their top dollar animals get away from them and end up in shelters, not to mention abuse them or raise them terribly.

It may come from more BYBs than reputable ones, but it still does happen and always will.

Also for all of you who talk so highly of rescues, many of the pnes I have dealt with over the years and friends as well, most are more interested in hoarding dogs than actually finding them forever homes. The one in Tehatchapi, CA and one in LA are examples. When you have such strict standards and expactations to let them know when you move and random house checks every so often, you tend to turn many people off of that, because that is absolutely ridiculous. I am not saying all Rescues are like that, but most of the ones in my area are.

I'm still blown away to be getting criticized for buying from a BYB and not even knowing what one was for that matter, especially after adopting 3 animals in the past from a shelter.

You guys wonder why so many people get defensive, but you need to look at how you guys come at people. I've seen many people attack different people all for the simple fact of them not know your "right from wrongs."

If this is such a big issue to many of you, I would think you would find other ways to spread the word about it than just on a posting forum that a small part of the population actually sees. Make the time/effort, spend the money, and spread your beliefs out to a larger mass, just not grilling and alienating people on a posting forum that do not know your beliefs.
DoberDad90 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to DoberDad90 For This Useful Post:
Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012)
post #198 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 08:51 PM
u mad?
 
PatchworkRobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,474
Location: Texas
Dogs Name: Rhapsody's Mystery of the Spanish Chest - "Dreizehn", Gaia's Bijort - "Ruthless"
Titles: UKC CH for Dreizehn, CGC for both, CA for both
Dogs Age: Born December 2010, July 2011
Gallery Pics: 5
Visit PatchworkRobot's Gallery
Thanks: 4,845
Thanked 16,097 Times in 4,640 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
If this is such a big issue to many of you, I would think you would find other ways to spread the word about it than just on a posting forum that a small part of the population actually sees. Make the time/effort, spend the money, and spread your beliefs out to a larger mass, just not grilling and alienating people on a posting forum that do not know your beliefs.
Many people here, myself included, do not speak out just on the forums but make the time, spend the effort and the money, and spread our beliefs out to a much larger mass.

Along with this they're actively participating in rescue. This includes donating money and time, transporting dogs, pullign dogs from shelters, doing home checks (the horrors!), and fostering dogs, etc.



No dog is at fault for being born into this world.

Last edited by PatchworkRobot; 12-04-2012 at 09:02 PM.
PatchworkRobot is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to PatchworkRobot For This Useful Post:
BenVera (01-29-2013), DobbieLovie (12-04-2012), EmilyB (12-04-2012), GingerGunlock (12-04-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), RedFawnRising (12-05-2012), Rosemary (12-04-2012)
post #199 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 08:54 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,405
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Dogs Name: Stormy (Dobe rescue), Sydney(Breeder rehome)
Titles: ADD, FAT
Dogs Age: 12,7
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit EmilyB's Gallery
Thanks: 8,805
Thanked 13,904 Times in 4,920 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
When you have such strict standards and expactations to let them know when you move and random house checks every so often, you tend to turn many people off of that, because that is absolutely ridiculous. I am not saying all Rescues are like that, but most of the ones in my area are.
I really can't comprehend what you think is wrong with that? Do you have something to hide? Do you know what happens to dogs placed without care as to their future?
EmilyB is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to EmilyB For This Useful Post:
bean (12-05-2012), Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012), RedFawnRising (12-05-2012)
post #200 of 276 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 08:59 PM
Alpha
 
DobbieLovie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 386
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Dogs Name: Wallace and Luna
Dogs Age: May 24th/2012, March 30th 2012
Gallery Pics: 11
Visit DobbieLovie's Gallery
Thanks: 577
Thanked 373 Times in 202 Posts
Images: 11
                     
Send a message via MSN to DobbieLovie
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
I actually have done 4 days at our local shelter and helped out, not to mention watch my best friend of 13 years get put down, I know how it is, but you also need to understand especially from a shelter prospective, some of the dogs are show quality and have done nothing wrong, especially in my town, people either lose their dogs and don't look for them, turn them in or let them go on the side of the road.

It's not all about the breeder, it's about the owners, and being involved through law enforcement over the years, appearances may be deceiving and some scum bags do have money and still have their top dollar animals get away from them and end up in shelters, not to mention abuse them or raise them terribly.

It may come from more BYBs than reputable ones, but it still does happen and always will.

Also for all of you who talk so highly of rescues, many of the pnes I have dealt with over the years and friends as well, most are more interested in hoarding dogs than actually finding them forever homes. The one in Tehatchapi, CA and one in LA are examples. When you have such strict standards and expactations to let them know when you move and random house checks every so often, you tend to turn many people off of that, because that is absolutely ridiculous. I am not saying all Rescues are like that, but most of the ones in my area are.

I'm still blown away to be getting criticized for buying from a BYB and not even knowing what one was for that matter, especially after adopting 3 animals in the past from a shelter.

You guys wonder why so many people get defensive, but you need to look at how you guys come at people. I've seen many people attack different people all for the simple fact of them not know your "right from wrongs."

If this is such a big issue to many of you, I would think you would find other ways to spread the word about it than just on a posting forum that a small part of the population actually sees. Make the time/effort, spend the money, and spread your beliefs out to a larger mass, just not grilling and alienating people on a posting forum that do not know your beliefs.
MANY of us do this.... I only started learning about all of this a few months ago and took action right away, is NOT the fact that you bought from a BYB but the fact that you defend it...for sure there's tons of other dogs abandoned NOT only from BYBs, does this means we have to just accept it and contribute to the problem??? ONE,TWO OR 3 RESCUED DOGS PER PERSON make a difference, I've got 2, and Kuddos for you rescuing 3 as well, BRAVO! but then leave it at that, rescuing if you can't afford or just simply won't spend 2-3k on a dog, I personally could afford it, but simply rather knowing and having the satisfaction of saving one. At this point i just couldn't bring myself to buy from a BYB knowing what I know and seeing what I see, how can you defend it after supposedly you volunteered in shelters...yes for sure there's some shelters that hoard animals, and other that are high kill, but I dont volunteer in neither of those kinds, I volunteer at one that really helps and is there for the passion of helping dogs, because they have compassion.

Its really heartbreaking to see how can people be so cynical and just put all kinds of other problems that already exist as a facade to cover up for their on screw ups and making them seem not as bad....Wake up! that's why all those dogs are in shelters, because people are not educated, not only BYB's, but YES thats a big part of it, dogs are so easy for people to acquire these days that they dont see them for what they are: A PRIVILEDGE, A LUXURY.

"The word for female dog is not dogette"
DobbieLovie is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to DobbieLovie For This Useful Post:
Nubis'sDad (12-05-2012)
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome