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Old 12-03-2012, 06:12 PM   #76 (permalink)
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All of my dogs have been BackYard bred. The first, my heart dog, was a purchase. I was an ill informed college student who didn't know any better. The next 3, including Leo and Mac, the 2 still with me are rescues.

In this case the BYB did well... 3 beautiful dogs have found a soft place to land, and countless others have been helped along their journey to their forever homes WHY? Because I loved that first dog SO much that I couldn't stand idly by KNOWING that so many like her were waiting to die in kill shelters. Every last one, on a transport or in the shelter or needing a foster, COULD HAVE BEEN HER.

Use the knowledge and love that the first dog brings you to do better the next time.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:32 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Eqstrnathlete View Post
Yet Deacons issues stem from his owner, not the breeder. You can't blame others for your problems.
Not only would a good breeder not have sold 2 males to one home, they wouldn't have sold 2 littermates to one home, and they sure as hell wouldn't have sold even 1 pup/dog to a home that fully intended to keep the dog(s) outside to guard the yard.

That IS the breeder's fault - the breeder is in complete and solitary control as to who they sell their puppies. That home should have never been sold a Doberman puppy. Period.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:47 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Now my question with all of the people saying not to buy from a BYB or Mill and to use a rescue is:

How do rescues know the actually history of many dogs?

I have dealt with many BYB with different breeds in the past along with reputable AKC breeders as well, and I have never had any issues with any BYB. I also have preferred the overall personality and temperament of the BYB's over the AKC dogs I have had.

I have also dealt with different rescues in the past and I personally don't agree with how they handle things for the most part, but that is my opinion, which I don't expect anyone to agree with.

Not to mention most "reputable" breeders I have been around and dealt personally with in years past, don't seem to care about the dogs as anything more than pride and a source of income. I'm not saying all breeders are like this, but these are just my personal experiences.

I guess my overall question is why is it such Taboo for people to have BYB dogs?
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:53 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jayda+Bronson View Post
And those who bought from a back yard breeder, please share your story?

Please share your story, and price you paid if you don't mind.
I bought my Siberian Husky from a BYB 6 years ago for $200. The puppies were listed for $250 in the newspaper but the woman let me have one for $200. My Husky is everything I don't want in a dog, breed-trait wise. You could say this is my fault based on not doing my research before I got her, but if the BYB was a responsible breeder who cared where her puppies ended up and offered support throughout their life, this husky would have never landed in a home with me. Not because I am a bad owner, but because the Siberian Husky is not a good fit for my lifestyle and a responsible breeder would have grilled me with questions and would have told me to look into other breeds.

Yes, I love my husky as she is my first dog and I have that emotional attachment to her, but I also cannot effing stand her at the same time and a long time ago before I was more mature and as dedicated to dogs as I am now, I did offer her for sale on myspace to any of my friends who had the cash..I got that fed up and exhausted with her. Of course I didn't go through with it and looking back I would have never tried to give up my dog, but I got to that point, a point I don't want to get with another dog, a point that I would have never gotten to had a greeder not blindly sold me a breed that was not good for me. That is why breed rescues exist. BYBs selling to irresponsible and unfit owners and irresponsible and unfit owners looking to BYBs for a cheap and fast dog...it's a vicious cycle.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:55 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
Now my question with all of the people saying not to buy from a BYB or Mill and to use a rescue is:

How do rescues know the actually history of many dogs?

I have dealt with many BYB with different breeds in the past along with reputable AKC breeders as well, and I have never had any issues with any BYB. I also have preferred the overall personality and temperament of the BYB's over the AKC dogs I have had.

I have also dealt with different rescues in the past and I personally don't agree with how they handle things for the most part, but that is my opinion, which I don't expect anyone to agree with.

Not to mention most "reputable" breeders I have been around and dealt personally with in years past, don't seem to care about the dogs as anything more than pride and a source of income. I'm not saying all breeders are like this, but these are just my personal experiences.

I guess my overall question is why is it such Taboo for people to have BYB dogs?
The taboo is not having the dogs. The taboo is supporting poor breeding practices that are ultimately a detriment to the breed by paying those people money to continue along their path.

Rescues...I haven't dealt with one myself, personally, so I'm unable to comment first hand. I've heard of unnecessary, heartbreaking drama involved with rescue organizations. I've also heard of the good that a lot of them do. What rescues know about an individual dog is what the owner tells them when the dog is surrendered.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:57 PM   #81 (permalink)
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I guess my overall question is why is it such Taboo for people to have BYB dogs?
Because BYB don't care about their dogs... When they no longer can produce money they are ether destroyed/shot/killed or dropped off at a shelter for someone else to deal with.

If you (knowingly) support a BYB that would ultimately do this to a dog I HAVE ZERO respect for you.

I am sure Jade was soooooo well taken care of in her use of a money producer... NOT
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:57 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
Now my question with all of the people saying not to buy from a BYB or Mill and to use a rescue is:

How do rescues know the actually history of many dogs?
They don't unless the previous owner is honest. All they can vouch for is what they know of the dog in a foster home situation. The point of rescue though is to save a life.

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Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
Not to mention most "reputable" breeders I have been around and dealt personally with in years past, don't seem to care about the dogs as anything more than pride and a source of income. I'm not saying all breeders are like this, but these are just my personal experiences.
Then you have not personally dealt with an ethical breeder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
I guess my overall question is why is it such Taboo for people to have BYB dogs?
Start here, this is what they are perpetuating and supporting when they purposely buy from a BYB when they know better:

shelter
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:58 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
I guess my overall question is why is it such Taboo for people to have BYB dogs?
I'm not saying this to be catty but you've posted in two threads now that explain the horrors that BYB's cause and you've also been linked to a couple of threads about it. In all of these threads many people have shared their experiences and given their opinions.

My question is, has it not been explained in a way that makes any sense to you?



To answer your question...
BYB's and Greeders are doing nothing but produce puppies. They are taking members of a breed and breeding them without health testing them (or doing minimal tests) nor titling them. They are doing nothing to check the health and ability of their dogs, they're just throwing caution to the wind and creating puppies - almost certainly for nothing but profit.

"Reputable" breeders on the other hand are actively titling their dogs to prove them. TO prove that the dogs are built correctly (a dog that is not built correctly will deteriorate faster than a dog that is) and/or that they can work under pressure. They are also fully health testing all of their dogs before breeding them to make sure that they are only breeding healthy dogs.

What it comes down to here is that you get the unknown from the unknown (dogs that aren't tested or titled) and you get MUCH better chances at health, correct build, correct temperament, etc from dogs that have been tested for all of those things.

Also, "reputable" breeders screen their buyers heavily - and sure, I can see how some people get offended by this but it's all in the best interest of the dog (imo). They make sure that their dogs are going to the best homes possible, homes that are prepared, so that there is little chance of the dog ever leaving that home. However, if, for some reason, those dogs do have to leave the original home the "reputable" breeders will take those dogs back to ensure that those dogs never set foot in a shelter or rescue nor in the hands of somebody that they don't know anything about. These breeders keep a close relationship with their puppy buyers.

On the other hand, BYBs and greeders will sell their dogs wither with minimal screening or to the first person with the money. After that transaction they are done with the puppy and pay no mind with where it ends up or even if the buyer should have one in the first place. They are not breeding to improve the breed - simply for reasons such as money. They are populating the world with far too many dogs and it's THEIR dogs that end up filling up shelters.


ETA: There are many BYBs and greeders who are just really nice people. They come in all shapes and sizes, they sometimes are very open about their religion and sometimes aren't; They are people.
However, just because they're a friendly person doesn't mean that they should be breeding dogs.


And yes, as somebody stated, the taboo isn't the dogs or having the dogs - it's knowingly supporting the practice.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:59 PM   #84 (permalink)
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A lot of dogs in rescue are owner surrenders, so yeah, they can learn a lot about the dogs from the owners. Others, taken in as strays or from shelters, are usually kept in foster homes, and are temperament tested.

The thing is, dogs in rescue are much more likely to be from BYB than from a good breeder. A BYB pretty much feels their resposibility for a dog ends when the check clears. A good breeder is there for you for the life of the dog, and will always take back any dog they breed if you can't keep it. I've seen more than one BYB "contract" that states that the breeder takes absolutely no responsibilty for the dog after 24 hours after you take posession.

The "taboo" of a BYB dog, as you put it, is that BYB breed simply to breed. "Oh, Fluffy is such a pretty dog, and the people down the street have Bosco, who is a great pet. Let's breed them, and have lots of cute little puppies!" Never mind that Fluffy and Bosco are not good examples of their breed, have never been tested for health problems common for their breed, and the only consideration given to who buys the puppies is "Cash, check, or paypal?"
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:09 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchworkRobot View Post
I'm not saying this to be catty but you've posted in two threads now that explain the horrors that BYB's cause and you've also been linked to a couple of threads about it. In all of these threads many people have shared their experiences and given their opinions.

My question is, has it not been explained in a way that makes any sense to you?



To answer your question...
BYB's and Greeders are doing nothing but producing puppies. They are taking members of a breed and breeding them without health testing them (or doing minimal tests) nor titling them. They are doing nothing to check the health and ability of their dogs, they're just throwing caution to the wind and creating puppies - almost certainly for nothing but profit.

"Reputable" breeders on the other hand are actively titling their dogs to prove them. TO prove that the dogs are built correctly (a dog that is not built correctly will deteriorate faster than a dog that is) and/or that they can work under pressure. They are also fully health testing all of their dogs before breeding them to make sure that they are only breeding healthy dogs.

What it comes down to here is that you get the unknown from the unknown (dogs that aren't tested or titled) and you get MUCH better chances at health, correct build, correct temperament, etc from dogs that have been tested for all of those things.

Also, "reputable" breeders screen their buyers heavily. They make sure that their dogs are going to the best homes possible so that there is little chance of the dog ever leaving that home. However, if, for some reason, those dogs do have to leave the original home the "reputable" breeders will take those dogs back to ensure that those dogs never set foot in a shelter or rescue.

On the other hand, BYBs and greeders will sell their dogs wither with minimal screening or to the first person with the money. After that transaction they are done with the puppy and pay no mind with where it ends up or even if the buyer should have one in the first place. They are not breeding to improve the breed - simply for reasons such as money. They are populating the world with far too many dogs and it's THEIR dogs that end up filling up shelters.
What your saying makes perfect sense, and I have read the articles and everything you guys have nicely presented me to read, and I very much appreciate that.

My issue is this: Some of you guys seem to really profile and it really almost seems that you profile these "BYBs" into being money hungry, non educated idiots that don't do it for the "right reasons".

Which in my experiences with "BYBs", each one of them has texted me to ask how they are, and some have lived in the same town and either call me or come visit me, vs the breeders we have dealt with who don't care about the dogs what so ever, unless the dog is winning championships/shows, and making them as a breeder look better.

I went to many dog shows when I was younger, along with a family friend who was the same age as me, and we used to get PAID to show people's dogs in hopes they would strengthen their overall pedigrees, and I watched them do that for many years with random kids, so I'm sorry, but I really don't buy into most breeders wanting to show their dogs to prove they are the healthiest, to me it is mostly money and like I said before pride.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:17 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Of course there is pride in having a titled dog. For Pete's sake, I have a mutt, and I am rediculously proud of those letters after her name.

When it comes to picking breeders, though, I'd rather choose one who owns and breeds champion dogs over one who claims to breed "show quality" dogs, but has not had any independent third parties (judges, for example) verify that yes, they do have dogs with correct conformation. If I wanted a working line dog, I'd look for working (IPO, etc.) titiles. Titling is called "Putting your money where your mouth is".
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:22 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
Which in my experiences with "BYBs", each one of them has texted me to ask how they are, and some have lived in the same town and either call me or come visit me, vs the breeders we have dealt with who don't care about the dogs what so ever, unless the dog is winning championships/shows, and making them as a breeder look better.
It's interesting that you talk about the members here profiling and grouping all BYBs into wanting the same thing (money) and yet you seem to do the same with the "reputable" breeders that we talk about and, when talking about BYBs, you mention only one aspect, them checking up on the dog.

There is not one single thing that makes a breeder a BYB, it's a multitude of things.

Lets say I got a dog from a woman in town who breeds her dogs once a year and she friends me on FB and keeps in contact to see how the pup is doing. That's great, but she's still not making sure that my puppy, and all the other puppies, are given the best chance at life. She's just breeding her dogs - for whatever the reason may be and that fact bothers me. If I'm going to pay for a dog, whether I pay $150 or $1500, I want to get a dog that has the best chances at being healthy and living a good, long life. And again, you get the unknown with the unknown.


As for the breeders only caring about the dogs that are showing - I haven't seen that at all! Both my dogs (dobe and other) come from breeders who show and work their dogs and neither of my dogs show or work. They still keep in contact with me to inquire about how my dogs are doing. I hear from one about every month and the other I keep updated on my own (we're connected on FB). Also, at any time I can ask about my dogs' littermates or even relatives form other litters and these breeders will tell me enough to fill a book.

Our experiences have been very different, it seems.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:23 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Of course there is pride in having a titled dog. For Pete's sake, I have a mutt, and I am rediculously proud of those letters after her name.

When it comes to picking breeders, though, I'd rather choose one who owns and breeds champion dogs over one who claims to breed "show quality" dogs, but has not had any independent third parties (judges, for example) verify that yes, they do have dogs with correct conformation. If I wanted a working line dog, I'd look for working (IPO, etc.) titiles. Titling is called "Putting your money where your mouth is".
Please don't get me wrong, that is a prideful thing to have under your belt as a Breeder, etc.

My point out of saying that is, the same argument for saying BYBs only care about money and not the dog, can be made for breeders too.

You can profile any side of a story, but the reality of it is, especially in this argument, your either on one side or the other, and I know experiences have a weigh in on opinions, but to bash and be hateful about that, really is not right.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:24 PM   #89 (permalink)
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You completely contradicted yourself within your own post.

First off, you didn't "rescue" him. You knowingly purchased him from a BYB who purposely bred him. Rescuing a dog means you adopted him from a shelter or rescue. Which you did not do.

Secondly, yes you do support BYBs if you knew better and *still* purchased a dog from one. Irresponsible. Plain and simple.

And thirdly, taking this into account, you fall into the exact category you mentioned. Sad but true.
Its healthy, we can agree to disagree.
I might not have rescued in your eyes or others, but the last time i looked in the Merriam-Webster dictionary, rescuing has many meanings/definitions.
I was even more irresponsible as you bluntly put it, to also pick the runt of the litter, as I have always done with my previous Dobes.
I do not look for perfection in people nor do i seek the same in a pet. I have my many reasons and I do not have to justify them on an open discussion forum, so that they can be ridiculed.
The first thing that was done to Nubis, was neutering, as I would never in my wildest dreams breed a Dobe with a questionable background.

Again, I RESCUED Nubis because when I went to get him, his faith was sealed. Now I could have been irresponsible and walked away, so he might possibly have been traumatized later in life possibly ending up at a Rescue or sadly on a table. Now, for the ppl in Fairyland, if you actually think BYB's will run short of buyers and wither away, you really need to give your head a shake. Education, Activists and Laws are the only things that are going to change the way people think.
I get galores of compliments on Nubis and when I educate ppl on the breed, I tell them to research the breed, even direct some to DT, so that they do not fall victim to BYB's..and be better prepared in buying a large powerful dog like the Doberman..I also let them know locally, what breeders to avoid, including Nubis's BYB[er because I have first hand knowledge in the conditions he lived in before i RESCUED him.
Get it, got it, good.
So yeah, I contribute to the BYB's.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:24 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Did the breeder of your puppy do health testing DoberDad90? What is the longevity in their lines? Are you already in a defensive mode because you are thinking you have bought from a BYB?
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:26 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Now my question with all of the people saying not to buy from a BYB or Mill and to use a rescue is:

How do rescues know the actually history of many dogs?

[...]

I guess my overall question is why is it such Taboo for people to have BYB dogs?
They don't. They know what the owner gives them, which may or may not be honest. I have Skoll's written history from his owner, along with the temperament testing the behaviorist did to verify their words. Would you believe, the behaviorist pretty much found the exact opposite behaviors than what the owners described? "Will not give up ball" from the owners, behaviorist says "drops ball easily when asked". Doesn't take much to figure out that someone's a liar here.

As others have said, it's not a bad thing to have a BYB dog. It's a bad thing to pay for one.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:31 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PatchworkRobot View Post
It's interesting that you talk about the members here profiling and grouping all BYBs into wanting the same thing (money) and yet you seem to do the same with the "reputable" breeders that we talk about and, when talking about BYBs, you mention only one aspect, them checking up on the dog.

There is not one single thing that makes a breeder a BYB, it's a multitude of things.

Lets say I got a dog from a woman in town who breeds her dogs once a year and she friends me on FB and keeps in contact to see how the pup is doing. That's great, but she's still not making sure that my puppy, and all the other puppies, are given the best chance at life. She's just breeding her dogs - for whatever the reason may be and that fact bothers me. If I'm going to pay for a dog, whether I pay $150 or $1500, I want to get a dog that has the best chances at being healthy and living a good, long life. And again, you get the unknown with the unknown.


As for the breeders only caring about the dogs that are showing - I haven't seen that at all! Both my dogs (dobe and other) come from breeders who show and work their dogs and neither of my dogs show or work. They still keep in contact with me to inquire about how my dogs are doing. I hear from one about every month and the other I keep updated on my own (we're connected on FB). Also, at any time I can ask about my dogs' littermates or even relatives form other litters and these breeders will tell me enough to fill a book.

Our experiences have been very different, it seems.
I use that example of being profiled to show you it can go both ways.

As far as your argument with breeders keeping up with all of their liters, etc and making sure they go to the "best" home, how exactly do they do this? Working with the police department and dealing with things such as legitimate background checks, etc, there is only so much they can do such as: Check yard, house, people in the house, etc.

The one thing I can agree with you is that we both seem to want to best for dogs in general which is good to see.

I just don't understand why some of you seem to think we can control the "bad" breeding of dogs if we can't even do that with the human race, for an example, go to your nearest Walmart and walk around for 5 minutes.

Although we do have different experiences and views, I do respect and love the fact that you want the BEST for the dog (Health, Home, etc), and that is something we CAN agree on
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:37 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Did the breeder of your puppy do health testing DoberDad90? What is the longevity in their lines? Are you already in a defensive mode because you are thinking you have bought from a BYB?
Let me get this straight... I am in "defense mode" because I bought froma BYB? I bought from a great breeder that wants the best for her dogs, does house checks and checks up on her dogs. I very well knew the dog was not AKC registered neither do I care.

I do not know if the breeder did health testing, neither do I care, because I'm not "Playing God" with animals.

I got the puppy because she has a great personality, great parents, and owners.

This will be my 6th dog doing this with and every dog I have had to this point has exceeded their life expectancy and have lived great lives.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:45 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
Let me get this straight... I am in "defense mode" because I bought froma BYB? I bought from a great breeder that wants the best for her dogs, does house checks and checks up on her dogs. I very well knew the dog was not AKC registered neither do I care.

I do not know if the breeder did health testing, neither do I care, because I'm not "Playing God" with animals.

I got the puppy because she has a great personality, great parents, and owners.

This will be my 6th dog doing this with and every dog I have had to this point has exceeded their life expectancy and have lived great lives.
Ok I don't think DT is the right forum for you. Please read the forum manifesto and make a decision to stay and be enlightened, or move on because no one is going to be supportive and encouraging of someone who willingly supports irresponsible breeders. This is a forum that supports the WELFARE of the Doberman breed. You clearly do not give a crap on one of the most important issues regarding the breed.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:51 PM   #95 (permalink)
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I use that example of being profiled to show you it can go both ways.
Yes, it can definitely go both ways.
And yes, some "reputable" breeders are snobs and only care about the titles. This is not a breeder that I would purchase from, personally.


As far as your argument with breeders keeping up with all of their liters, etc and making sure they go to the "best" home, how exactly do they do this? Working with the police department and dealing with things such as legitimate background checks, etc, there is only so much they can do such as: Check yard, house, people in the house, etc.
They do what they can - home checks, recommendations, puppy questionnaires, and incredibly long in person or on the phone conversations. It's not just about home checks and references but making sure the person is a right fit for the breed. Now, certainly this doesn't always work out perfectly and certainly there are people that these breeders regret selling puppies to. However, in my experience, these instances are few and far between. You're less likely to find a dog with an unfit (for lack of a better word) owner when the dog is from a "reputable" breeder than when the dog is from the neighbor down the street or a BYB.

The one thing I can agree with you is that we both seem to want to best for dogs in general which is good to see.
Yes, I'm glad that we can agree on this.

I just don't understand why some of you seem to think we can control the "bad" breeding of dogs if we can't even do that with the human race, for an example, go to your nearest Walmart and walk around for 5 minutes.
You may be surprised but many of us feel that the human race's breeding should be controlled also, lol. It's come up from time to time.

Although we do have different experiences and views, I do respect and love the fact that you want the BEST for the dog (Health, Home, etc), and that is something we CAN agree on
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:51 PM   #96 (permalink)
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I do not know if the breeder did health testing, neither do I care, because I'm not "Playing God" with animals.
That is heartbreaking, and a slap to the people on here who have lost their dobes to DCM, cancer, at a young age.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:52 PM   #97 (permalink)
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I do not know if the breeder did health testing, neither do I care, because I'm not "Playing God" with animals.
Isn't simply the act of pairing two dogs together to breed, two dogs that probably wouldn't have ever been able to breed together otherwise, technically "playing god?"

Now, as one who wants the BEST for the dogs, do you think that breeding two untested parents - and lets not even talk about titling, just health tests that can be used to prevent something all together, like vWD - is really doing the BEST for the future puppies? What if the two parents are both vWD (a bleeding disease) affected and now all the puppies are too. What if that's the case and something happens to one of the puppies and the puppy bleeds out because help is not gotten fast enough and/or no preventative measures have been taken. Is that really best for the dogs? vWD is something that can be EASILY prevented through testing.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:58 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Ok I don't think DT is the right forum for you. Please read the forum manifesto and make a decision to stay and be enlightened, or move on because no one is going to be supportive and encouraging of someone who willingly supports irresponsible breeders. This is a forum that supports the WELFARE of the Doberman breed. You clearly do not give a crap on one of the most important issues regarding the breed.
No, that is where you are wrong. This forum as many others have said, support the bashing and segregation of other who don't believe what you do.

The judgement that is swung down in this forum is ridiculous. Reality of the fact is, the "Back Yard Breeders" you speak of usually sell dogs faster than those of the $1,500 breeder that wants an arm and a leg for a companion.

It is extremely sad to see many of you so mindless and cynical to anything except what YOU believe.

You go off of what YOU know, or more of the point, what you THINK you know.

You try and perfect a breed of an animal and block out those who don't support that.

Animals will have health issues regardless of what their pedigree is, such as human or an other living thing.

It really makes me question where many of your education levels are and what you actually do with your lives, because any truly education person would know there are different aspects to every problem and situation, and some things cannot be fixed.

Keep thinking what you do and living the way you do, because in all honesty, you may think your doing some good, but in reality you are not. You are simply bashing people that you do not agree with and hiding behind your so called "knowledge".
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:03 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilyB View Post
That is heartbreaking, and a slap to the people on here who have lost their dobes to DCM, cancer, at a young age.
Feel disrespected all of the sudden? It is what you guys seem to do to anyone who does not agree with you.

Take my words for what you want, but I did not say I don't care about the dogs health, but I also take a dog for who they are and not some crap excuse not to take a chance.

We don't test humans for diseases, but we can test dogs for that and not choose one because it doesn't fit what we want?

That right there is heartbreaking, but not surprising what so ever.

Having anything brought into this world is a risk or a chance, but now you want to control that with an animal?

I'm sorry, but that right there shows me many of you are not doing it for the love of a certain dog.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:04 PM   #100 (permalink)
u mad?
 
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Responses, again, in purple...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoberDad90 View Post
No, that is where you are wrong. This forum as many others have said, support the bashing and segregation of other who don't believe what you do.
The members of this forum are very passionate about their breed of choice - that's the reason that this forum exists. The members have come to their opinions and conclusions through their own means, not because it was bashed into them.

The judgement that is swung down in this forum is ridiculous. Reality of the fact is, the "Back Yard Breeders" you speak of usually sell dogs faster than those of the $1,500 breeder that wants an arm and a leg for a companion.
Not something I've seen. 99% of the time the "reputable" breeders have wait lists and their litters spoken for before they hit the ground. I've seen many BYB's however, and I"ve not seen this in "reputable" breeders, lowering the prices weekly as their 16+ week old puppies age.

It is extremely sad to see many of you so mindless and cynical to anything except what YOU believe.

You go off of what YOU know, or more of the point, what you THINK you know.
Don't you do this also?

You try and perfect a breed of an animal and block out those who don't support that.
Is it really so bad to want to increase the ridiculously short life-span of this breed? Is it really so bad to want to figure out and stop the reasons that dogs drop dead too early at the ages of 4, 5, and 6?

Animals will have health issues regardless of what their pedigree is, such as human or an other living thing.
Yes, but the overall point is (and I mentioned this in my other posts) is that you have better chances at health with breeders who are health testing. The same goes with humans who go through genetic testing. People do that and some do decide not to reproduce based on the results.

It really makes me question where many of your education levels are and what you actually do with your lives, because any truly education person would know there are different aspects to every problem and situation, and some things cannot be fixed.
Now now, this is just hurtful...

Keep thinking what you do and living the way you do, because in all honesty, you may think your doing some good, but in reality you are not. You are simply bashing people that you do not agree with and hiding behind your so called "knowledge".
DoberDad... I was really liking my conversation with you. It was civil and nobody was being hard headed. However, you've just grouped me in an offensive way. I consider myself a member of this forum and when somebody uses a general "you" I am often a part of that which means that you've insulted my intelligence in multiple ways.

Weren't we just talking about how it's bad to group people?
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Last edited by PatchworkRobot; 12-03-2012 at 10:09 PM..
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