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Old 11-10-2012, 02:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Questions about coat colors

Ok, Just curious.......

I cant seem to find anything on it. Is there a Chocolate/rust doberman or is it just a darker shade of red?

Also on the isabella/fawn and rust. They say its a dilute of red. Yet there silver. Can someone explain this to me?

Also what breeds make up the doberman breed.

I bought a couple puppies today and just trying to understand the makeup a bit better
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm only gonna address the fawn question.

Yes they are a dilute of red. The color looks "silver" due to the pigment melanin (sp?) being inconsistent throughout the hair follicle.

Are you familiar with color dilution alopecia?
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The four colors are Black, Red, Fawn (dilute of red) and Blue (dilute of black), all with accompanying rust markings.


"a couple puppies"?
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Taken from the dpca website linked here: Doberman Pinscher Club of America: Four Colors

Quote:
There are ONLY FOUR ALLOWED COLORS for the Doberman.
black and rust
red and rust
blue and rust (dilute black/rust)
fawn and rust (dilute red/rust)
Quote:
Any other color is a DISQUALIFICATION ....... Besides the more common color’s seen in the Doberman—Black & Rust and Red & Rust—there are the”DILUTES” of these two colors—Blue is a “dilute” of Black—Fawn is a “dilute” of Red. Each parent carries genes that determine color. In the Doberman we have the Black which is “dominant” over red. Each parent can carry Black Only or Black and the “recessive” Red or Red Only. Besides these “colors”, each parent can also carry a “dilution gene”. If both parents carry the “dilution gene” and in the process of the mating of two parents that carry dilution, the offspring gets a dilution from the sire AND a dilution gene from the dam—then the “DILUTE FORM” of Black/which is Blue —–or of Red/which is Fawn can be expressed. So it takes DILUTION from BOTH parents to have any puppies that are Blue or Fawn. This is really simple Mendelian Genetics.

The Blues and Fawns also have a higher incidence of coat and skin problems. This arises from the way the MELANOCYTES are deposited on the hair shaft itself. These are what “color” the hair shaft . It is very irregular in pattern compared to the Blacks and Reds and the hair itself is softer and has a difficult time coming through the follicle and emerging through the skin. There is a higher incidence of ingrown hairs and staph infections because of the nature of the hair shafts themselves.
It also links to here Storm's Regimen which gives great info on what it's like and what it takes to take care of a dilute dogs coat.


Doberman history: http://dpca.org/breed/breed_history.htm

Please stay and learn, it sounds like you may have gotten yourself in a bit over your head by purchasing? two? new puppies both dilute and presumably with little knowledge of the breed.

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Old 11-10-2012, 02:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Ok ive seen people saying they have chocolate dobies but i never heard of chocolate and couldnt find any info so i just assumed they are calling them chocolate due to them being a darker shade of red. Yet they still are the same as red.

Far as the fawn, thanks for clearing that up because fawn in my mind is supposed to be like a tan color. lol
Yes im aware of skin issues of the dilutes ive been doing some reading lately on the colors and etc.. just when i got the pups the breeder called my female a chocolate/rust so it got me confused.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yes i got two puppies.

Seperate litters. Not planing to breed.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yes i got two puppies.

Seperate litters. Not planing to breed.
Hope you're well read up on raising two puppies at once - it's not an easy path! Make they spend a large amount of their time separated.

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Old 11-10-2012, 02:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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a lot of people especially depending on where they live will call them by different names, chocolate, black or red and tan versus rust, isabella, steel, in the end its red, black, fawn, and blue
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Fawn (6 year old)

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Old 11-10-2012, 03:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Very pretty dobies! Thanks for all the info!
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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This is the male i have.

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Old 11-10-2012, 03:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Side note... sapphire has a stunning coat (in the head shot)!
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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How old is that puppy, OP??
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Oh 1 more question. I probably should have did more research before getting these two.

Now the fawn guy has blue eyes as of now. The breeder said he may or may not keep those blue eyes. They might turn green or grey.

What is everyone elses experiance with that?
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Chocolate is what they call a brown Lab - but in Dobermans they are called Red no matter what hue of red it might be.... lighter or darker. In Europe the reds are called Brown - but I don't believe that they are called chocolate anywhere.

Dilutes will also vary in hue.

Two puppies at once is really not a good idea - read up on it here.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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He is actually only 4 weeks old. Being bottle fed atm. No it wasnt a reputable breeder.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Oh 1 more question. I probably should have did more research before getting these two.

Now the fawn guy has blue eyes as of now. The breeder said he may or may not keep those blue eyes. They might turn green or grey.

What is everyone elses experiance with that?
How old is he?

Yes, most fawns have lighter eyes as youngsters and they get darker with age. Leo has amber colored eyes, Macs are more "brown/green".
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:15 PM   #18 (permalink)
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He is actually only 4 weeks old. Being bottle fed atm. No it wasnt a reputable breeder.
You need to start a thread about appropriately raising a puppy that young, maybe, instead of coat colors. People here may be able to give you suggestions. Some may be VERY important. There are some socialization benchmarks you need to be aware of, and maybe some health issues as well at 4 weeks
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Well ive bottle and tube fed raised puppies in the past my only concern is dobermans are not like a normal mixed breed or calmer nature dog. there a working breed and need alot more socialization that he will be lacking from not being with him mom at that age.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Most puppies are born with blue eyes, very few dogs have blue eyes as adults.

You really need to start a new thread about raising such a young puppy, he is missing out on all sorts of important stuff being taken away from his mother and litter mates so young.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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He is actually only 4 weeks old. Being bottle fed atm. No it wasnt a reputable breeder.
Why did you go through with purchasing if you knew it was a BYB??? The worst thing you can do is to support and perpetuate these types of breeders. I suggest you read up on bite inhibition like yesterday. A breeder calling reds chocolates...was this a marketing gimmick for unsuspecting buyers or is this greeder just that stupid about Dobermans?
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Well ive bottle and tube fed raised puppies in the past my only concern is dobermans are not like a normal mixed breed or calmer nature dog. there a working breed and need alot more socialization that he will be lacking from not being with him mom at that age.
Yeah, there's ALOT more you need to be thinking other than coat colors right now, You are on the right track.

Start a thread, be polite, grow a thick skin, and get the advice you need.

Hugs to the baby fawn. He's fawntastic
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Cute pup, though I am curious what the situation is with him. I mean, did the BYB sell him to you, or was it a rescue situation, etc.? Not sure why someone would purposefully buy a puppy that young when they know so much about dogs, so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here and wondering if there's more to the story about him?
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info. I cant say really what kind of breeder he was. He was very nice and talked to me a bit about dobies and there colors and etc... He met me at a gas station and the price was very low and most breeders wont sell puppies at this age.

Either way im happy with the puppies themselfs. Regardless of any health problems pop up later down the road we will deal with it when they come. Im just here for advice.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:58 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kindafugly View Post
Thanks for the info. I cant say really what kind of breeder he was. He was very nice and talked to me a bit about dobies and there colors and etc... He met me at a gas station and the price was very low and most breeders wont sell puppies at this age.

Either way im happy with the puppies themselfs. Regardless of any health problems pop up later down the road we will deal with it when they come. Im just here for advice.
I can't say what kind of breeder he was, either. We have moderators on here.

Glad you are here for advice
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