Should I, or should I not? Did you? - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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View Poll Results: To neuter or not to neuter
Neutered ( 10wks- 12months) 16 25.81%
Neutered (1 yr-5 yrs) 25 40.32%
Spayed( 10wks-12months) 11 17.74%
Spayed ( 1 yr- 5 yrs) 2 3.23%
Not Neutered 7 11.29%
Not spayed 1 1.61%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Should I, or should I not? Did you?

I've been thinking about whether or not I should get Bronson neutered? All of the pets I've ever owned had been spayed or neutered( most of them mutts), with exception of the two my mother owned and one my father did. My reasons for even questioning it now, stupid as I know it sounds, I think he's handsome and I for just some stupid odd reason want to let him keep his. Jayda is spayed, and 7, so Im so not ever planning on breeding, nor with anyone who asks by chance.

But, the reason why I am for it is because I do not want him to have any health issues and I do not want his behavior to become aggressive. Even though, in my gut, I'm leaning to get him neutered, what are you guys input?

I added to poll because i think its fun and any easier way to answer for those that do not want to write.
If you have more than one than you can vote on your youngest, or write

Last edited by Jayda+Bronson; 11-09-2012 at 05:38 PM.
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 05:43 PM
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My feeling is that one makes this decision based on what is in the best interest of the individual dog and what is required for one's individual circumstances. If a dog has a medical condition which is best addressed by neutering, I will neuter. If a dog has developed behaviors related to being intact which I either cannot or choose not to address by training or management, I will neuter.

Medically, it is statistically in a male dog's best interest to remain intact.

Behaviorally, it will depend on the dog and the owner and the owner's circumstances whether or not neutering will be beneficial and thus advisable.

If I have no specific reason to neuter, I do not. If neutering will not provide benefit to the dog or to myself, I see no reason to have it done.

I think Bronson is still just a pup, yes? In my opinion, it is best to allow him to mature before you even begin to weigh this decision.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, He is. 15 weeks next week. I know i'd be much further in the future if I was to do that, just was wondering. See, Bronson will technically be my first big-male dog since Spike when i was 10, and Spike was aggressive and not neutered. I was wondering if, mostly male-doberman owners, seen an issue with this and think it may be due to not being neutered,and any health issues?
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 06:12 PM
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Neither my last male nor my last female dogs were ever de-sexed. Neither had health issues or behavioral issues related to being intact.

I don't think you can retroactively change the way a poll is designed, but it would have been better (in my opinion) if multiple answers for multiple dogs could have been selected.
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmctaq View Post
Neither my last male nor my last female dogs were ever de-sexed. Neither had health issues or behavioral issues related to being intact.

I don't think you can retroactively change the way a poll is designed, but it would have been better (in my opinion) if multiple answers for multiple dogs could have been selected.

You are SO right, lol. Im not too good at this just yet.
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 07:17 PM
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Do you have a spay/neuter contractual requirement with your breeder? My experience has been that most breeders require the dog to be spayed/neutered by a certain age, unless the pup was sold as a show prospect (thus must remain intact at least until it finishes showing).

I am definitely no expert on the health impact, but my impression has been that dogs not neutered have a higher risk of prostate cancer down the road.
I have also heard that many people prefer to wait until their dog is closer to sexual maturity - or at least 12-18 months - prior to neutering, to maximize the hormonal benefits while the dog is still intact.

Hopefully others more knowledgeable can chime in on the pros/cons of neutering as it relates to health of the dog.

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmctaq View Post
Neither my last male nor my last female dogs were ever de-sexed. Neither had health issues or behavioral issues related to being intact.

I don't think you can retroactively change the way a poll is designed, but it would have been better (in my opinion) if multiple answers for multiple dogs could have been selected.
Same here. I'm not spaying Ashra, and I wouldn't even if I wasn't showing her, unless it was necessary for medical reasons.

Just wanted to add a few links with studies on S/N for anyone interested:

http://musedobermann.weebly.com/uplo...iderations.pdf

http://musedobermann.weebly.com/uplo...uterindogs.pdf

http://musedobermann.weebly.com/uplo...d_behavior.pdf
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 07:39 PM
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I neutered Riley at 6 months due to contract with the breeder.

Honestly, there are so many variables involved that I don't think there's a right or wrong age to do it. I believe it's preferential to the dog's owners and/or breeder, and that either way (waiting or not) there are possible pros and cons.

Personally, I prefer my animals to be neutered earlier than later if they are not going to be bred.

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarvestMoon View Post
my impression has been that dogs not neutered have a higher risk of prostate cancer down the road.
Intact dogs have a higher rate of prostate enlargement (which is usually successfully addressed by castration). It is castrated dogs which have a higher rate of prostate cancer... prostate cancer in dogs is very aggressive, fast and nasty.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 08:25 PM
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I did sign something that said " I, the breeder ( her name ), release Bronson to ( i sign me name). She did scratch the limited restriction box but no, no contract that says I have to get him neutered.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Jayda was spayed at about 8 months. I wanted to do it soon for her because my mom had and still has Strider, a cocker spaniel and he was intact and i didnt want him to get her pregnant and make horrible cocker-pinschers.
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 09:44 PM
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I have intact bitches, but I have not been able to keep a male intact. The whining, poor eating, sniffing, licking and other really gross behavior made me neuter males in our house. I did wait until over a year though.


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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 10:06 PM
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I agree it should have allowed for multiple choices.

For over forty years, since my first dog as a child, the male dogs were always neutered after or around six months. Certainly not saying that is the thing to do now, I've seen some dobes neutered around that time and they end up looking big and gangly. So is my GSD, neutered around that time. So was my malamute, neutered around that time. As a do over, I'd wait longer, but doubt I'd make it to 18 months....

Back that long ago as well, it was always better to have a heat cycle before a spay (usually people just had a litter, those were the times ).

I spayed my first dobe girl at six months, she ended up with an inverted vulva, or similar, I don't know if that was why. She lived a long life.

Primarily my rescues have come spayed. I suspect Stormy was an early spay, Priscilla a later spay, and of course Syd just done at age 5 as a retired breeding bitch.
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-10-2012, 08:36 AM
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I think the vast majority of owners are not willing or not capable of managing intact animals, both the potential behavior issues that may arise as well as the prevention of accidental breedings. I think you need to give a lot of thought to whether you are really capable of it. The rescuer in me has seen too many cases of accidental litters born because of a small mistake. There are certainly downsides to both choices; I would really recommend talking with your vet who knows you as an owner and can help guide you in decision-making.


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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-10-2012, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmctaq View Post
Intact dogs have a higher rate of prostate enlargement (which is usually successfully addressed by castration). It is castrated dogs which have a higher rate of prostate cancer... prostate cancer in dogs is very aggressive, fast and nasty.
Turns out testicular cancer is as well. And altered dogs can't exactly have that. I agree with Meadowcat, please talk to your vet about this! We are just strangers on the internet, we can't know how capable you are of handling an intact dog.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-10-2012, 09:09 AM
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I'd recommend having him neutered between 12-18 months. Any pet Doberman I've sold is required by contract to be spay/neutered. I recommend letting a bitch go through one heat IF they do not have an intact male and can handle it - then spaying 3 months later. For males I require that they be neutered by 18 months - I don't require a minimum age, but recommend waiting till at least 12 months.

Any breeder that sells pet puppies on full registrations without a spay/neuter contract is NOT a responsible breeder in my book. JMHO

Of my own personal dogs, Louise was spayed at age 6 after 2 litters (yes she is a finished champion), Harvard is still intact and will be 5 next month (my Grand Champion), Jezebel at 8 months will go through one heat and then be spayed as she won't be shown in breed and won't be bred.

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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-10-2012, 12:05 PM
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I don't think that the handsomeness of your boy should be the determining factor of whether you keep him intact or not.

I personally wouldn't want to deal with an intact dog anywhere near a female in heat. I've heard crazy stories of what males will do to get to females, including breaking out of crates, going through windows, etc. My husky mix was born because the neighbor's 14 year old white GSD jumped two fences to get to the husky female. The neighbors in no way thought that was possible!

I do think that the trend seems to be to wait longer than even 10 years ago.

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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-10-2012, 12:16 PM
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I believe in doing what is best for you and your dog. There are lots of benefits to keeping them intact and lots to getting them neutered. I don't think neutering is a magic cure all for behavioural problems. I think if you can be 100% sure you will keep him away from in season females 100% of the time, I would neuter at 18 months.

I will say my boy is 15 months and intact, and when he is around females in season he can be an utter nightmare; he won't eat for days, he whines, he acts frantic, chatters his teeth, gets aggressive to other dogs (handbags, but a lot of noise and snarling) and becomes pretty much deaf. We haves lot of inconsiderate owners here who walk their females in season off lead, and it means I have to constantly be on high alert and he has to be on a lead.



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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-10-2012, 12:47 PM
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Do what you feel is right. I'd talk to your vet and your breeder about it and weigh their opinions.

I agree with Bean in that physical appearance, to me, is not a determining factor about spay/neuter. And I really don't buy a lot of the jibber-jabber about whether or not a dog will develop and fill out as much if they're spayed/neutered before maturity vs not. I have 2 girls here who were both spayed around 7-months old, neither ever had a heat cycle. Tali's 24" and 60-lbs and well muscled - right within the standard size for a female Dobe. And Fiona is 27.75" and 75-lbs and well muscled - she's a big girl but she was the one of the biggest pups in the litter at birth, too. I think it's just their genetics. They'll be what they're going to be according to their DNA for the most part. I'm sure spaying them before a heat cycle did have some kind of developmental implications, but loss of attractiveness was not one of them. I think often times pets don't develop and fill out like their show siblings because pets aren't being conditioned like their show siblings are most times. Both my girls get plenty of free running exercise and we train agility and go on a lot of hikes - neither one of them is spindly or lacking muscle by any means.

All that to say, I wouldn't base whether or when to spay/neuter on looks. Pups tend to take after their parents in build; if you want to make sure he muscles up nicely, just be smart about his diet and exercise/activity (age appropriate of course). Focus on the potential health benefits vs negatives for your spay/neuter decision.




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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-10-2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmctaq View Post
My feeling is that one makes this decision based on what is in the best interest of the individual dog and what is required for one's individual circumstances. If a dog has a medical condition which is best addressed by neutering, I will neuter. If a dog has developed behaviors related to being intact which I either cannot or choose not to address by training or management, I will neuter.

Medically, it is statistically in a male dog's best interest to remain intact.

Behaviorally, it will depend on the dog and the owner and the owner's circumstances whether or not neutering will be beneficial and thus advisable.

If I have no specific reason to neuter, I do not. If neutering will not provide benefit to the dog or to myself, I see no reason to have it done.

I think Bronson is still just a pup, yes? In my opinion, it is best to allow him to mature before you even begin to weigh this decision.

Excellent answer, and I couldn't agree more!

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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 03:01 AM
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I knew before I got a dog that it would be fixed. My choice. I knew I wasn't going to breed anything and why leave it to chance of an accident of something happening. I got a female, so I had her spayed at 6 months. I've read/heard that with a male that to get their full body size that it probably isn't a good idea to neuter them really young. Other then what I've read/heard I have no experience. I realize it is for each person to decide, but truly, unless someone is planning on being a breeder what reason does someone really have for not wanting their animal fixed? I'm just curious.
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 09:34 AM
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I have kept only males since the early '60's and most have remained intact. They all start out as show prospects so they wouldn't be neutered early in any case.

I make decisions about neutering for each dog. I neutered one dog at 6 because of medical conditions which indicated that neutering would be of value to the health of the dog--I'd never have neutered him if it hadn't been for that. His manners were impeccable and there was no reason to neuter him except for the health issue.

I neutered one dog because I had plans for him in performance after he finished his championship. He finished and it was very obvious at that time that he was so testosterone driven that his career in performance would be incredibly limited--I neutered him and have never regretted it.

I've never neutered a dog because of dog aggression and in fact the dog that I talk about above was and is very dog friendly--nor have I ever neutered a dog because of undesireable "male" behavior. My intact dogs don't mark in my house or any one elses.

On the whole my dogs remain intact for their entire life.

And I agree with BRW1982 that a lot of what you hear and read about failure to properly develope in neutered or spayed dogs has more to do with genetics than anything else. The business about all neutered or spayed dogs being taller and less muscled is hogwash--in any litter there are puppies that grow taller than their litter mates as well as puppies who simply don't grow up with the same sort of body shape and muscle as other litter mates--that's called genetics.

The other thing that a good many people don't realize is that even if you wait to neuter until a dog is older and has developed most of the secondary sex characteristics (heavier jaws, thicker and heavier neck) once you neuter the dog and there isn't enough testosterone to support those characteristics they slowly disappear. This is much more noticable in cats but the same things happens in dogs.
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 06:04 PM
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I wish folks advising to wait to neuter--or not neuter at all, would do a quick search on past posts first, and take into consideration the abilities/experience of the person they are advising.

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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 08:48 PM
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Most people should spay and neuter their pets period. A few people on this chat can handle an un neutered male but that is NOT the norm. Take a walk around petsmart then say people should not neuter. Sorry but to the OP if you are not breeding neutering at 9-12 is the responsible thing to do. I have a neutered male dobeman, a neutered mixed doxie and two spayed females. I have an intact male collie, waiting to see if he is show quality. He will be evaluated at one year, this line is a slower to mature. If he doesn't turn out to be showable I will neuter him. I have lived with neutered and unneutered males and females. Some males are polite and easy to be around even if unneutered but some are a pita! I am a firm believer in neutering and spaying if not breeding.
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