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View Poll Results: How long did your Doberman(s) live?
Under 5 years 13 12.26%
5 years 5 4.72%
6 years 10 9.43%
7 years 9 8.49%
8 years 14 13.21%
9 years 11 10.38%
10 years 23 21.70%
11 years 16 15.09%
12 years 23 21.70%
13 years 19 17.92%
14 years 11 10.38%
More than 14 years 11 10.38%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-23-2012, 11:59 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Blueberry died a week after she turned 4 (06/30/10) She had a red areas in her ears on 04/10/10 a Saturday>vet appointment made for Monday>vet said it was probably an allergic reaction or It could be one other thing. It was the other thing.....she had something very close to Lupus. I took her to a specialist in Indy and then I took her to Purdue. She just became sicker each week....finally her liver was in too bad of shape....she was very ill....so we had to put her too sleep. Very sad day....my little Blueberry was so sweet.

Two weeks before I got Blueberry I lost my husky that I had half of my life....I was devastated. I asked somebody very close to me (who I thought knew a lot about getting a healthy dog) to vet the breeder. This was in 2006 before I knew about this site or what I needed to look for in a good breeder. When I went to pick her up I knew she was a BYB....But I took her home anyway. She was not socialized, her ears were not posted, and I did not like that way she was being kept. But I took her home anyway....I know a lot of people would say I should have left her but...during her short life I gave her a chance to have a good normal life. She was such a good girl. I know if I had not taken her she would have ended up in a shelter or worse.

Everybody loved Blueberry....she was so sweet. There was a side of my family that were terrified of Dobermans until they met her. Now they love the breed. She got to travel all over the mid west and the east coast with me. She even went to New York City and ran around like a crazy dog in Central Park.

I don't know if the situation she came from had any bearing on her medical problems or not. But I did learn.....no more BYB! I did my homework when I got Chloe....she is from a great breeder....I found the breeder on here! I am in love with her father....Arras....he is awesome and her mom too.
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:58 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hannah6 View Post
People put dobies down for aggression? Isn't that a training issue?

Greta started growling viciously at me when she was about 7-8 months old. I dealt with it. She's still here and she is my heart and soul. She will be nine years old in October. She still growls at me once in a while, but I just tell her to shut up. : ) She's knows I'm not the least bit afraid of her.
There is a huge difference between growling and the aggression that some of us have lived with. Recently, I'm inclined to believe Ollie had Canine Rage Syndrome. Until you have walked in my shoes and lived with what some on here have........you might want to educate yourself. Google Canine Rage Syndrome. I'm sure you will see there is a difference.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:05 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by monicaei View Post
Might wanna check the titles listed below the person you are insultings screen name (Adara). I'm thinking she MAY know a little bit about training
I'm not insulting anyone, I'm just asking a question. And I'm not responding to any one person in particular. Several people mentiond cause of death as "aggression." I was wondering what that meant until it finally dawned on me. I was shocked to hear that it seems somewhat the norm to kill dobes for "aggression." If someone feels insulted, maybe they need to look inward.

I happen to know and work with people who are able to turn aggressive dogs around. I would never kill a dog for a behavioral issue. Never.

Just my own personal opinion, which I'd like to be able to express without people coming back with sarcastic, antagonistic responses.

And, by the way, titles don't impress me. Actions do.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:11 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmony View Post
There is a huge difference between growling and the aggression that some of us have lived with. Recently, I'm inclined to believe Ollie had Canine Rage Syndrome. Until you have walked in my shoes and lived with what some on here have........you might want to educate yourself. Google Canine Rage Syndrome. I'm sure you will see there is a difference.
Thanks, I'll go look that up.
****

Wow, interesting. Seems to be a real problem with cocker spaniels of all thing! But actually, true Canine Rage Syndrome is really quite rare. When Greta was acting like that I was very new to owning a dobe and it really scared me. I did a lot of reading about aggressive dogs and what to do. In the end I told Greta that I would never get rid of her, but that if she started being really aggressive and biting me I would have all her teeth removed. Once I get a dog I'm their protector for life whether I like it or not. And I have a couple of them I kind of wish I didn't have due to various issues, but I'm stuck with them now. (not the dobes...they are awesome)

I guess Greta didn't want her teeth removed, she straightened up. Well, not completely, she's always been a rebel. Just look at her face down below. "Don't mess with me," that's what that expression means.

Seems like they think this Canine Rage Syndrome is genetic. All the more reason for responsible breeders. I hope everyone lets their breeder know when they get a dog that has this.

Maybe people should list cause of death as Canine Rage Syndrome, not aggression, so people know it's this disorder and not a behavioral problem. I'm assuming they had it diagnosed before putting the dog down.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:13 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hannah6 View Post
I'm not insulting anyone, I'm just asking a question. I was shocked to hear that it seems somewhat the norm to kill dobes for "aggression." If someone feels insulted, maybe they need to look inward.

I happen to know and work with people who are able to turn aggressive dogs around. I would never kill a dog for a behavioral issue. Never.
Troll much? Every thread you have been on is contentious to say the least. Why revive a months old thread to comment on something you clearly either don't fully understand or just to insult someone? Cuz that's what you did, and I believe it was intentional.

Not all aggression is "behavioral", it can't be trained away. Some is psychological, as in a legitimate medical issue. See above post about Rage Syndrome. These dogs are not only a danger to ever human they encounter, but are suffering inside their own heads in a way no less profound than with any other debilitating illness.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:57 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:07 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Troll much? Every thread you have been on is contentious to say the least. Why revive a months old thread to comment on something you clearly either don't fully understand or just to insult someone? Cuz that's what you did, and I believe it was intentional.

Not all aggression is "behavioral", it can't be trained away. Some is psychological, as in a legitimate medical issue. See above post about Rage Syndrome. These dogs are not only a danger to ever human they encounter, but are suffering inside their own heads in a way no less profound than with any other debilitating illness.
Troll??? What's with these personal insults?

I was attracted to this thread because my dobes are eight years old and I can't stand the thought of losing them. The subject of dobe longevity is therefore extremely interesting. I'm new to the forum, remember, so I hadn't read this thread before. I wasn't "reviving" it just to insult people. But when I saw "aggression" noted as cause of death, it really caught my eye. True rage syndrome is very rare, by the way, and I noticed more than one reference on this thread to "aggression" as the cause of death.

So I posed a question.

I "understand" more than you might think.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:33 PM   #58 (permalink)
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If even you aren't talking about rage syndrome, there are many dogs (not just Dobermans) that have severe enough aggression issues (whether genetics or environment, or both) that they cannot be rehabilitated. Not all aggression issues can safely be worked on, and you have to factor in the dog's quality of life.

To say you'd "never do it" is a naive thing to say. Would anyone *want* to make the choice to euthanize a beloved dog due to these issues? Of course not. But until you've been there, with a dog that has that level of issues, you can't say that. In fact, it's extremely insulting to say "it's a training issue." Those of us with dogs who are not "normal" work extremely hard with our dogs. I've spent thousands of dollars and years of training with my girl, to strive to give her the best life she can have. I work with a certified veterinary behaviorist at a university veterinary hospital. It's a constant struggle that's emotionally exhausting. So don't judge someone for euthanizing a dog for these types of issues when you haven't been there. Anyone who makes that decision is doing it after exhausting all other options.

By the way, nearly all of the Dobermans I've known with temperament issues like this come from the very types of breeders you support in this thread: Underweight new puppy Food for thought.
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:55 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
If even you aren't talking about rage syndrome, there are many dogs (not just Dobermans) that have severe enough aggression issues (whether genetics or environment, or both) that they cannot be rehabilitated. Not all aggression issues can safely be worked on, and you have to factor in the dog's quality of life.

To say you'd "never do it" is a naive thing to say. Would anyone *want* to make the choice to euthanize a beloved dog due to these issues? Of course not. But until you've been there, with a dog that has that level of issues, you can't say that. In fact, it's extremely insulting to say "it's a training issue." Those of us with dogs who are not "normal" work extremely hard with our dogs. I've spent thousands of dollars and years of training with my girl, to strive to give her the best life she can have. I work with a certified veterinary behaviorist at a university veterinary hospital. It's a constant struggle that's emotionally exhausting. So don't judge someone for euthanizing a dog for these types of issues when you haven't been there. Anyone who makes that decision is doing it after exhausting all other options.

By the way, nearly all of the Dobermans I've known with temperament issues like this come from the very types of breeders you support in this thread: Underweight new puppy Food for thought.
I don't support those "types" of breeders. I just don't like individual puppies being sacrificed for some greater cause, when there are other, more effective ways to address the problem of unethical breeders. For example, when I asked Cheyenne if she had reported the breeder to authorities, she had not. I'm suprised none of you jumped on that. When we become aware of irresponsible breeders selling severely underweight, sickly puppies, these things need to be reported to the authorities of the appropriate state or city, whether you actully live there or not.

A concerted effort to do that in each and every case we become aware of is what will make a dent. We can't just report people because we don't like them, though, there has to be actual abuse or breaking of laws.
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:08 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Start a thread on your thoughts regarding breeding and rescue. Hijacking threads unrelated to those topics is poor form.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:08 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Start a thread on your thoughts regarding breeding and rescue. Hijacking threads unrelated to those topics is poor form.
MeadowCat brought up Breeders and supporting them as well as the Underweight New Puppy Thread.

Hannah6 just responded.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:25 PM   #62 (permalink)
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MeadowCat brought up Breeders and supporting them as well as the Underweight New Puppy Thread.

Hannah6 just responded.
True. This hijack was about aggression and training on a simple poll that was several months old and resurrected for just that purpose. I should have clarified. It was directed at Hannah6, since she has a history of going off on tangents. I guess I should have picked the right derailment topic, though. My bad
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:03 PM   #63 (permalink)
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True. This hijack was about aggression and training on a simple poll that was several months old and resurrected for just that purpose. I should have clarified. It was directed at Hannah6, since she has a history of going off on tangents. I guess I should have picked the right derailment topic, though. My bad
Yep you're Bad.

You apparently were referring to previous posts not the response to Meadow Cat.

Tangent is in the eye of the Beholder. With approximately 24000 Members they probably don't all view things the same. WOW that many Doberman Lovers is great when you stop to think about it.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:02 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Agreed. I eagerly await any thread started by Hannah6 regarding her views on aggression OR breeders. I maintain that sneaking in on other threads (sick puppies and old polls) is not getting the traction her opinions deserve. I LOVE that there are 24000 dobe lovers here. Lets not lose the message she wants to get across. There is a huge audience. She should NOT be silenced. Go forth and conquer.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:11 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I'm not insulting anyone, I'm just asking a question. And I'm not responding to any one person in particular. Several people mentiond cause of death as "aggression." I was wondering what that meant until it finally dawned on me. I was shocked to hear that it seems somewhat the norm to kill dobes for "aggression." If someone feels insulted, maybe they need to look inward.

I happen to know and work with people who are able to turn aggressive dogs around. I would never kill a dog for a behavioral issue. Never.

Just my own personal opinion, which I'd like to be able to express without people coming back with sarcastic, antagonistic responses.

And, by the way, titles don't impress me. Actions do.

I'm very glad that you have never had to deal with a dog with such severe emotional issues that euthanasia was the kindest choice. Being with my Casper when I sent him to the bridge was most difficult day of my life and it haunts me everyday.

How much dobe experience do you have? Have you worked in rescue at all? Sadly I see many dogs come through that are not safe to adopt out. As a matter of fact my latest addition can not be placed due to a bite history which is why I kept her and she is not a doberman but a chihuahua.

Ya know what, many, many years ago I would have said I'd never put a dog down for behavioral issues also but I did. I have to say even if there was a line of people willing to take on a crazy reactive dog that redirects inappropiately I wouldn't have placed him that wouldn't have been fair to him.

RIP Casper I miss you. Run healthy and free from your demons I'll see you at the bridge.


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Old 07-23-2012, 10:31 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hannah6 View Post
People put dobies down for aggression? Isn't that a training issue?

Greta started growling viciously at me when she was about 7-8 months old. I dealt with it. She's still here and she is my heart and soul. She will be nine years old in October. She still growls at me once in a while, but I just tell her to shut up. : ) She's knows I'm not the least bit afraid of her.
What a completely naive and ignorant post.

Clearly, you've not dealt with the number of Dobermans (and other breeds) who are the product of ill-advised breeding programs, who actually have serious temperament issues, and whose "wiring is not up to code."

You cannot TRAIN away a mental illness. You may mitigate the associated behaviors to some extent, depending on each case's particulars, but you cannot FIX the genetic baggage some dogs sadly carry.

To suggest that some who have had to make the very difficult and loving decision to be responsible to friends, family, community, and ultimately, the dog itself, by humanely euthanizing...are somehow just...lacking in your oh-so-fab training skills is just--ignorant.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:38 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dobejazz View Post
I'm very glad that you have never had to deal with a dog with such severe emotional issues that euthanasia was the kindest choice. Being with my Casper when I sent him to the bridge was most difficult day of my life and it haunts me everyday.

How much dobe experience do you have? Have you worked in rescue at all? Sadly I see many dogs come through that are not safe to adopt out. As a matter of fact my latest addition can not be placed due to a bite history which is why I kept her and she is not a doberman but a chihuahua.

Ya know what, many, many years ago I would have said I'd never put a dog down for behavioral issues also but I did. I have to say even if there was a line of people willing to take on a crazy reactive dog that redirects inappropiately I wouldn't have placed him that wouldn't have been fair to him.

RIP Casper I miss you. Run healthy and free from your demons I'll see you at the bridge.


Thank you, Kel, you said it much more eloquently than I.

I loved ol' Casper too, and I know how difficult your journey, and that last loving act, were.

One other thing--and ALL Doberman owners should be thanking you, for making sure the breed got no more bad press. I put down a pibble for serious and unpredictable human aggression, partly because it was the right thing for him, and for the community, but also because I love the breed/type so much, I didn't want this one troubled soul to endanger the legal standing of the entire breed.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:19 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Why is it that when some of you disagree with a poster you think it's okay to resort to sarcasm and personal insults?

I believe that the cases that cannot be rehabilitated are rare. It might take a lot of time and effort, but most dogs can be helped. If some of you don't believe that, or don't want to deal with it, fine, but don't attack me personally.

Just because I'm new to this forum, don't make the assumption that I'm new to dogs.

And, yes, I do rescue. They killed a doberman at my local Animal Control many years ago because of "aggression." He was chasing people on bikes, big whoop. What was he doing loose? Not bad breeder, LOUSY OWNER. I wasn't able to save that one because of people who insisted he couldn't be helped, and I was new to the breed so no one would listen to me.

Next time, I'm ready.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:31 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I think there is a bit of a disconnect here over the definition of "aggression". A loose dog chasing bikes is not aggression. It's irresponsible stupid ownership coupled with natural prey drive.

While I have no expierience living with an aggressive dog, I can give you an example. I volunteer at a no kill shelter once a week. We have a large rottie/pibble mix. He's a sweet, affectionate dog most of the time. He is EXTREMELY DA (dog aggressive) meaning he doesn't want to play, hes not posturing, he doesn't care if the other dog submits. He wants to seriously injure them. This dog, in that moment of blind rage has come up his leash at people. Not someone breaking up a dog fight, he was no where near the other dog. A volunteer was seriously bitten, she's extremely lucky he did not break her arm. It swelled up like a softball and she had to get xrays. She had the misfortune of being the one walking him.

He has shown willingness and ability to redirect his DA at people on more than one occasion. He has multiple bite histories. He once attacked another dog THROUGH a chain link fence. He broke a canine tooth on the fence, the other dog needed multiple stitches.

Do you believe it would be advisable to adopt this dog out? That is the kind of aggression I think of when I see that word typed on here. Not loose, bothersome neighborhood dog.

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Old 07-24-2012, 08:05 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hannah6 View Post
Why is it that when some of you disagree with a poster you think it's okay to resort to sarcasm and personal insults?

I believe that the cases that cannot be rehabilitated are rare. It might take a lot of time and effort, but most dogs can be helped. If some of you don't believe that, or don't want to deal with it, fine, but don't attack me personally.

Just because I'm new to this forum, don't make the assumption that I'm new to dogs.

And, yes, I do rescue. They killed a doberman at my local Animal Control many years ago because of "aggression." He was chasing people on bikes, big whoop. What was he doing loose? Not bad breeder, LOUSY OWNER. I wasn't able to save that one because of people who insisted he couldn't be helped, and I was new to the breed so no one would listen to me.

Next time, I'm ready.

I didn't attack and I didn't assume. I asked you questions. You seem to be assuming that Casper was put down because he was chasing people on bikes or some such similar behavior. Casper had a screw loose - he was not safe and I guarantee you the decision was not made lightly. The sad fact is maybe some of these dogs can be rehabbed but while valuable time and resources are spent on just one questionable dog - many more perfectly safe, sane adoptable dogs die due to lack of funding and foster homes.

It is in Caspers honor that I volunteer, foster and attempt to educate people on responsible breeding and pet ownership.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:22 PM   #71 (permalink)
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I didn't attack and I didn't assume. I asked you questions. You seem to be assuming that Casper was put down because he was chasing people on bikes or some such similar behavior. Casper had a screw loose - he was not safe and I guarantee you the decision was not made lightly. The sad fact is maybe some of these dogs can be rehabbed but while valuable time and resources are spent on just one questionable dog - many more perfectly safe, sane adoptable dogs die due to lack of funding and foster homes.

It is in Caspers honor that I volunteer, foster and attempt to educate people on responsible breeding and pet ownership.
Dobejazz, I wasn't referring to you. You do not attack. You rebut, discuss, challenge, question. Nothing wrong with that.

And no, I didn't mean to compare Casper to the dobe that I wasn't able to save. Nor am I judging you.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:45 AM   #72 (permalink)
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I just happened to come across this thread, Im not sure why it was at the top with the last post in July, but I just wanted to add the info about Mysti and her passing. She was 8 1/2 when we lost her and she had hypothyroidism and Addison's disease. The vet was about 98% sure it was the Addison's that caused her passing. It is a tough disease to maintain and you have to be vigilant and keep the dogs stress level down.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:35 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Troll much? Every thread you have been on is contentious to say the least. Why revive a months old thread to comment on something you clearly either don't fully understand or just to insult someone? Cuz that's what you did, and I believe it was intentional.

Not all aggression is "behavioral", it can't be trained away. Some is psychological, as in a legitimate medical issue. See above post about Rage Syndrome. These dogs are not only a danger to ever human they encounter, but are suffering inside their own heads in a way no less profound than with any other debilitating illness.
I understand her point of view, me too im new and I was wondering what "aggression" meant...why do you have to make everything so personal?, there's like 10 people that wrote their Dobes died and the cause was aggression so why suddenly some of you are deciding that she was insulting the original poster?? jeez people, it was just a question.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:42 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Sierra will be 11 on October 7th, and Sadie just turned 3 in July. Sierra has some arthritis, but with meds is good. She also seems to be losing some hearing. Sadie is has been healthy so far.
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:23 PM   #75 (permalink)
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yikes! i just came across this thread and was going to answer... but it seems the original post got somehow sidetracked... anyway MeadowCat - you know that 3 of our Dobes of recent "history" died at age 6 of DCM, sudden onset and precipitous death. the 4th member of that family, Willie, just had his 9th birthday, for which we are very grateful. Annie is only 3, but she's from a completely different line.

when i was very much younger (1950's, 60's, 70's), my grandfather and cousin had a number of Dobes, and they lived around 12 years. and, wonderfully, our neighbor back on CA had a huge vWD+ Dobe who lived to 15 1/2, and might have made it to 16, but when her mistress went on hospice, her supposed 'best friend' had Gussie PTS for her own convenience. it made many of us very angry, because the woman who did this is a fairly well-known handler who supposedly loves animals - but is, in fact, a horrid, self-serving human being.
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