dapple

Hello DT.
Looking to hear about your experiences with your un neutered males.
I've had dobes for 12 years, but never kept an unaltered male.

As you may know, I have a 5 month old amazing pup named Rudy.
He is social, confident, smart, attentive......well, really I could just go on on and on about all the positive things about him. I am having no problems with him at all. Knock on wood.

Anyhow....my last male, who was from more working lines....was very dominant and had a really high prey drive. He was neutered. Even so, I did not do dog parks with him, and was ALWAYS thinking 5 steps ahead with him to make sure we did not have any negative experiences. He was very friendly, and dog friendly, but could really dominate other dogs and that could turn ugly. So he got a lot of exercise rollerblading with me....and on private beaches ect.

My question is.....what should I expect with Rudy when he matures.
Right now he is amazing at the off leash beach. Great recall, plays so nicely.
He really is a different style dobe to my last working style male.
He will be in agility and of course conformation, which is why he will be un altered.

How much social contact do your unaltered males have with other dogs or other strange dogs?
How do they do in Agility with being off leash and running and excited? I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate everything with an unaltered male. Which I've never kept before. Though, I think that having Strider, even fixed.....because of his working style, was such a lesson in being proactive about many situations.
Rudy has a lot of socialization, and will be at a lot of shows.....around other males....so I'm sure he'll be used to it.
But was just curious about your day to day lives with your males.

Here's Rudy from our last walk.

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LONGATE'S Tiger Lily. Call name Lily
BRUDA Catch A Rising Star. Call name Rudy
CARA'S Ranger of the North. Call Name Strider - March 6, 2005 - October 28, 2011 RIP

ZeldaRules

A TON.

Goofy as hell



Here are some videos of how my intact male does in very social situations with other dogs, if you wanna check 'em out

Doberman Musical Chairs pt 1 - YouTube
musical chairs at a pet expo(and he won!)

Cv mm - YouTube
loving on a lab in a group of dogs

Stella, 5 month old GSD foster pup inside with the pack - YouTube
playing in close quarters in my old apartment with 4 other dogs under the same room, my husky, and my roommates male doberman, intact female giant schnauzer, and my foster female GSD puppy

Prime meeting the rescue puppy - YouTube
meeting a male doberman puppy

Three's Company - YouTube
playing with my male german shepherd foster dog and a female chinese crested

Dobies In The Park - Bill Archer Dog Park - YouTube
playing at the dog park with a group of around 15-20 other dobes, male, female, some intact. He was bomb-proof! However we dont do dog parks anymore bc he kept getting attacked by other dogs.




So, as you can see, life with my intact show-line male has been nothing short of awesome. He is a GREAT dog! Yours sounds like it too(and is oh so handsome!). Prime can also be trusted off leash at the beach, in fields, and he got to frolic around off leash in the bluebonnets on Sunday and there were a ton of people, children, and other dogs around. He didn't bother any of them.

Amelia_

I think it's down to different personalities, I don't believe neutering will necessarily make a dog more laid back or vice verser. I would personally give it a 'wait and see' attitude and get him neutered if you want him neutered.

My un-neutered 11 moth old boy has been the most laid back dog Ive ever met and I have no plans to neuter him. Obviously there's sill plenty of time to reconsider, but he's family are the same his recall has taken a nose dive in the last month or so, but I think (hope!) that's just a phase.

Your boy is GORGEOUS, by the way

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dapple

This is my goal, and what I hope will be my life too. Rudy is also from an American Show line....and his temperament is amazing. He still has drive and zip, but definitely less then Strider, and that's good , as I'm not going to do work that would require that. Zelda, as you know, Prime is one of my faves here. He just has the most handsome face.

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LONGATE'S Tiger Lily. Call name Lily
BRUDA Catch A Rising Star. Call name Rudy
CARA'S Ranger of the North. Call Name Strider - March 6, 2005 - October 28, 2011 RIP

ZeldaRules

I have worked my butt off to help mold him as a model canine citizen, and the work will be on-going throughout his life. For being my first Doberman, he has been so forgiving and kind. I wanted a social, active, athletic, drivey male with an off switch, and that is exactly what I got!I didn't get to experience the young puppy stage with Prime since I got him at 5 months, but on the day that I went to meet him for the first time, he was very calm and somewhat unsure, but he did sit by me at one point and gave me a small random kiss on the cheek, then he started acting goofy and playful...I knew he was mine!


I hope your boy is everything you want and more, and you continue to share lots of pics!! Prime says "thank you ma'am!"

Adara

One thing to keep in mind as he gets older is that he may get "targetted" at places such as dog parks, etc. by neutered dogs. While he may not be an issue, others may start issues with him, then what? I don't take my intact male Vizsla to dog parks anymore because of that. We do go to off leash big areas, beaches, field training, etc. but when we get in smaller quarters often the neutered dogs start up with him and I "run interference."

I think you're going to need to wait a good year to 18 months or more to see a true adult personality though.

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Colleen
Flirt, ADAMAS All the Girls Do It, OA, NAJ, CL2-F, CL2-H
Gabby, Ch Gold Run's Token of Rumor, JH, NA, OAJ, NF, NJP, CL2,CL3-H, CL3-F Vizsla
Havoc, GCh HRQ Guess Who's In Trouble, JH, OA, OAJ, CL2-H, CL2-S, CL2-F Vizsla
Envy, Kizmar's Bailey HotShot of Adara, Vizsla

dapple

The area I'm taking Rudy now by my house is a HUGE off leash beach. So he'll have room. I will start to watch for that as he gets older. Right now, he's still a puppy and loves everyone. But from my last male experience, I know it can get tricky. I just wanted to know what to expect from people who have adult males, as Rudy is still small. I'm hoping that he can continue with all of his activities without issue. Especially Agility, as he really likes it. I'm sure there are other conformation dogs that also do dog sports with their unaltered males.

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LONGATE'S Tiger Lily. Call name Lily
BRUDA Catch A Rising Star. Call name Rudy
CARA'S Ranger of the North. Call Name Strider - March 6, 2005 - October 28, 2011 RIP

arankin

What a CUTIE!! Ahhh....

anyhow, I have a female so I can't comment on my personal experience but... I would continue to socialize as well as you are and expose him to new people, dogs and experiences.

I have also seen first hand, males that were dog park dogs since puppies, hit the 15 month ish range of maturity and do a 180 in their behaviour. Wether it be becoming more protective of mom, more aware of other males and having even a wrong look from another dog set them off. Some males get along ok with other males, some don't. For now all you can do is socialize and watch him like a hawk as he grows. There is no way of predicting it really..

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Dobereich's Original Envy, TT, CGN
"Scarlet"
04/10/2011

brw1982

First of all, your boy is HANDSOME! I love those Bruda Dobes.

A quick, probably not-so-helpful response to your question regarding intact males in agility...you might PM Alwayshadpets on the forum. She has a full brother to Fiona and he was shown to his championship so he's intact and Charmaine is running him quite successfully in agility. He's a sweetheart and a very happy, goofy, good boy. I think it presents some unique challenges but none that are impossible to overcome.

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Old Drum's Crimson Crisp, "Fiona"
Old Drum's Fiery Rumors of Taliesin, "Tali"

o0 sHaDoWoLf 0o

Right now Odin is almost 9 months and he will be in altered as well because he will be showing. Odin is very much like prime, I take Odin to the dog parks but with my life time experience with dogs and multiple dog jobs I have been able to read canine behavior really well and spot a troublesome dog right away.

I am always about 20 feet away from Odin at all times and I have taught Odin how to ignore obnoxious and dominating dogs. If those dogs are being persistent he will come under my legs for protection. Odin and I will move to another end of the park, and if that dog follows then we just leave.

I don't allow Odin to hump other dogs Nor do I let other dogs do it to him, he is really doing great. When I first got Odin I went at the same time every time and I got to know a lot of regulars that come when I do and I am comfortable with them and their dogs. They correct when there needs a correction, and they are just really good people and dog owners. They know Odin since he wad a pup and know that he is a really well mannered dog.

All in all I think he is doing great, I have also taken him to a couple of shows and he did awesome.

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VZ-Doberman

I have a 4 year old intact male. I would not let him run loose with other strange males. He does run loose with assorted small dogs m/f and a black shepherd cross with no fighting. Not that he would be the problem but if another male "threw down the gauntlet" I believe Bacchus would respond. I have zero problems with him in tight quarters with other males at trials...and it does get quite close with plenty of crampy waiting areas. These trials have 990 runs, sometimes more. I also have no problems walking through the crating areas where the crate crazies lunge at him. I simply use the same approach with him that I would use with a neutered male or female. I remain aware of what's going on around us.

Faireview

I wouldn't stress too much about have an unneutered male. You have to be mindful of a few things, but they mostly live the lives of all other dogs. My boy is unneutered and is actually a more solid citizen in public than my spayed, naughty, terrier girls. Now, we don't do dog parks and I don't allow him any prolonged exposure to other males, more because I don't trust the behavior of other males around Chase than Chase himself. Chase can be right next to other males with no issue - although some other males do try to make eye contact with him, which he ignores. You do need to socialize, but I socialized Chase just like I would any other puppy. The only thing that Chase does that is very intact doggish is flirt. He LOVES to flirt with the girls, especially cute, little border terrier girls that he meets at shows/dog events. Otherwise, he's an easy, kind, and respectful boy who charms everyone he meets.

As for agility, I would enjoy agility just as you would with any other dog. Just make sure that your dog is trained and trustworthy off leash, which applies to any dog. I could see an adolescent, hormonal puppy male trying to run off to "make friends" with others, but I would think if your dog is trained, is tuned into you, and is excited about the task at hand, he would be fine. Non-Doberman but still dominant intact dog example: We have a unneutered terrier who is actively breeding and is VERY dominant around other males (he lives with my mom, thankfully). He is able to run agility with other dogs in the room and even competes in the Master Earthdog class, which requires him to run loose and hunt with a randomly paired dog. Since he is so focused on the task before him, he is perfectly fine with another male or intact/spayed female as his running mate. He was able to breed a bitch this past Sunday morning and then run with a male in the afternoon and was fine because he was focused on the work he enjoys. I would expect most intact boys who have a job to be respectful and interested in that job at hand. Definitely do agility, obedience, or anything you have in mind to do with your guy! He'd love you for it!

Your boy is a doll!!

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Chase

SpecialK

I am in a similar situation with Rowan because the only dog my family ever kept intact was the very first dobe we had and I was a small child then. Rowan turned 1 in February so I keep watching and waiting to see if his happy-go-lucky goofy dude attitude will change. I have socialized the heck out of him from day one, but as he gets older I am more selective about the who and the where. I don't let him play with unknown dogs, period. If a new dog comes into our life for whatever reason we take it very slow and they do not interact off leash at all until we are fully comfortable. I never let him play with other males (neutered or not) without supervision, but I also watch carefully to make sure things don't escalate.

At our first show Sandi stressed it to me to keep Rowan close by me and to even hold his face close to my body when passing other dogs closely. The biggest point being--your dog might be social and sweet as pie, but other dogs might not. :/

As someone mentioned, one of the trainers we worked with made a good point that it is often mistaken that the unaltered dogs are the ones starting a fight. More often than not the neutered males instigate by something very subtle (such as a look) and the unaltered male just doesn't back down. This is what I am more afraid of with Rowan. He LOVES other dogs but if one went after him I don't know what would happen...and I sure don't want to find out!

We would like to do agility too down the road, but I think others have made the good point that obedience comes first and (altered or not) if your dog is well trained he will most likely be just fine. Good luck with that cutie pie and keep up the pics!

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"A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself." --Josh Billings

UKC Ch. Bruda Weekend Warrior, TT, CGC, TDI "Rowan"
Bruda Pure Seduction, S.T.A.R. Puppy "Monroe"

Murreydobe

Virtually all of the intact male dobermans I've owned over the years has been the same in this area: they wouldn't start sh*t with another male, but they definitely wouldn't walk away from trying to finish it. IOW-if the challenge is made, they'll rise to it. They've all been heavily exposed to other males at either dog shows or at obedience classes.

To a large degree this is due to training-it's been made clear to all of them they WILL tolerate the presence of other males in controlled situations. This is a no negotiation issue to me.

Actually, this isn't really even totally a "male" issue to me, all of my dogs of either gender are trained to ignore other dogs in public. I CAN'T STAND IT when people let some strange dog come barging right into my dogs faces, so I'm sure not going to allow my dogs to do that.

I do think a dog with appropriate drive levels and proper motivation/training will choose that work (whatever that work may be) over scrapping with another male.

That being said, I don't do dog parks, nor would I let any of them run off leash with other males in an informal situation after puberty, simply because I know they *will* defend themselves if the situation comes up.

Murreydobe

This isn't just a neutered male vs. intact male issue. Generally the one starting the conflict is the one making stink eyes at another dog, who then gets offended and reacts. The guy who rises to the challenge is the one who gets the blame, and he's NOT the one who started it.

WHENEVER you have a dog in public, you always have to keep an eye on your dog. What direction is their head pointed in? What are they looking at? If they're staring at another dog, correct them. If you see another dog staring at yours, break the eye contact, even if you have to step between the two dogs to do that.

Australdi

My second dobe (working) was an entire....and I concur with the previous posts. It's a personality combined with solid training/socialisation thing. You just need be vigilant that you don't leave them unsupervised in a situation where they could err, and perhaps a bit more dilligent on training and socialisation to ensure they are well mannered and obedient. All dogs should be raised that way....but there's a higher responsibility to ensure it if you're going to keep a male entire.

around 10-12 months they may challenge you for leadership role and test boundarys....just be calm, firm and consistant...and insistant that they perform the asked for behaviour (like a drop/stay)....it may need to be a long one

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"I've never been so obsessed (as now) with poop in all my life!"

SpecialK

Absolutely. I was just making the point that I think with the general public its often the unaltered males who take the blame for the aggression, regardless of who actually "started it".

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"A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself." --Josh Billings

UKC Ch. Bruda Weekend Warrior, TT, CGC, TDI "Rowan"
Bruda Pure Seduction, S.T.A.R. Puppy "Monroe"

dapple

This is such a great thread for me. Thanks!
So....I pretty much feel it's going to be similar to life with Strider.....who was neutered but still dominant and high drive. So I am used to be very aware with him. He was dog and people friendly, I just kept him out of situations where he could get in trouble.

I was just hoping it wouldn't be more work then that.
And hoping actually for less. But if it's the same....as I say....I'm used to it....as I did it for 7 years, living in the city and taking him EVERYWHERE with me. He toured with The Lion King all across the USA and Canada, in hotels and airports. He really was a great dog..... I just was always on top of things.

I'm hoping that Rudy....as he's less drivey then Strider was at his age, will still be a few levels 'easier'. ha I hope that's not wishful thinking.

I would love to be able to run him on the beach....where there are not a ton of dogs.....as it's one minute from my house and is so beautiful.

I will just keep an eye on him as he matures and make adjustments as needed. He will start shows in one month.....how exciting....so he'll be out with dogs a lot. Plus we are still doing obed and agility twice a week. So he's social.

Here's a pic of the 24/7 off leash beach by my house. If you look to the very end....there is a wall where you go up the stairs, to fields and more beach. From where I'm standing....as 10/15 min walk. All of it is off leash, and if you go in the weekdays or late at night....practically empty.

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LONGATE'S Tiger Lily. Call name Lily
BRUDA Catch A Rising Star. Call name Rudy
CARA'S Ranger of the North. Call Name Strider - March 6, 2005 - October 28, 2011 RIP

pdubois64

This is so true, I have really learned to read Dillon's body language now and can stop something before it escalates.

I found having Dillon altered (at 22 months) had no effect on his personality. He didn't like intact males before and he still doesn't, but he is getting a lot more tolerant as he gets older it seems.

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Dillon:b.2/19/09 d.9/28/12 "The best walks in life are always the briefest"

nightgrace6

lol Primes hilarious