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Old 08-09-2011, 11:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Growling Doberman puppy

We have a 13 week old doberman, we got her at 9 weeks. She has started growling at me and my daughter. This is not a play growl. She does it if we pick her up out of her bed, take her off our lap or kiss her. The trainer and vet both say she is wonderful and not aggressive. The trainer says she is feeling threatened. I have never had a dog I can't kiss and pick up before. Is this normal doberman behavior or has anyone else encountered such a behavior?
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I have never had a puppy growl at me. What does your pups breeder say about this?
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Dogs in general do not like to be picked up, and they don't like to be kissed. This is viewed as a threatening, dominant move. As people, we consider it a loving display of affection. In the canine world, it's a no-no. Many dogs will tolerate human displays of affection, but it doesn't necesarily mean they like it.

Have you raised a working breed dog before? What training methods are you familiar with, and what training methods are you currently using? I think alot of doberman vocalization gets confused as aggression because they have a very scary growl, your 13 wk old probably sounds like a much bigger, scarier pup lol. But I would simply stop picking the dog up, and crowding her space so much. I would also suggest having your dog earn priveledges like sitting on your lap. Even if it's just making your dog sit, or do something before being allowed on your lap. With working dogs, you can't spoil them, and priveledges should be earned.
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Please pick up a copy of Turid Rugaas' book/DVD "Calming Signals." This will really help you "read" your dog's language and what she's communicating to you. I would also recommend doing some reading on dog socialization and fear periods, so you can help your girl grow up happy and secure.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Stages of puppy development.

Puppy Development

I have never heard of a 13 week old puppy growling aggressively at its owner or anyone unless they are roughly teasing or scaring it.

If you are already worried about this puppy being aggressive perhaps you should return it to the breeder.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If your trainer says your pup is doing that because she feels threatened, listen! Sometimes the growl is the only way they can communicate.

Also, pay attention to the different vocalizations she makes. Elka is very "talky", and sometimes sounds like growling to people other than myself and my fiancÚ.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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This is the first working breed I have owned. Our trainer has trained many and works with police dogs, so he has been helpful. I am not sure what the training method is called we are using, but she works for food basically. She gets positive reinforcement and also corrections. I am not sure if I explained this well enough. Thank you for your suggestion KevinK. The vet and trainer both say she is not aggressive, but it is scary to me when she growls. I just want the best doberman I can have and want to do everything right.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Also if I don't pick her up how do I get her to go somewhere she doesn't want to go, for example she won't go down our back steps, so I have to carry her out to potty? Or sometimes she doesn't want to come inside and refuses to walk, we haven't gotten to the part of obedience for "come" yet, so should I drag her by her leash? I just want the best dog possible. Thanks for everyones comments.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You're welcome. I know they sound scary lol. You'll get used to it. Trust me, if your dog lets out a "real" growl one day, you'll know the difference... Until that time, you'll think the play growl is the real one!

My girl is a mix, and she's only about 20 inches and 30 lbs. She's certainly not intimidating, looks like a 10 week old doberman. But if you heard her from the other room, you would think there was a demon dog over there.

My girl didn't want to go up the stairs, (that's a whole different story) but what I did was I took her favorite snack, threw a piece NEXT to the first stair, let her go eat it. Once comfy, I put one on the first step, let her eat it. Once comfy, went to the 2nd step, etc. By the time she got to the top, she was no longer scared and would go up and down. Took probably about 45 minutes to go from dead scared to totally comfortable. When your dog is scared, and you're trying to work through it, make sure you do it at the dogs pace, and dont' scare the dog more.

When she is refusing to walk, is she tired? Remember that even though she is growing quickly, she's still a baby and will get tired fairly quickly. So make sure you're not totally tiring her out. If you pick her up every time she stops, she's going to keep doing it. Why should she walk if you'll carry her?? lol
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Also, a few pointers, to elaborate on what I said earlier about earning priveledges. Dobermans are scary smart, if you haven't noticed yet, you'll soon see. It's easy to be tricked, and to let the dog train you, especially if you're not used to working with such a smart, thinking breed. Come up with a set of rules, and stick to them. I would recommend checking out the NILIF program. (nothing in life is free). I would also start to look into different training methods, and getting familiar. Many here like to use some version of behavior markers, whether it's verbal or with a clicker. Personally, I like the verbal, because you don't ever have to be caught without the clicker. (I have the memory of a drunken gnat) Most also use some version of positive reinforcement training. Both are very simple concepts to understand, and it will give some consistency to your training program. When your dog gets older, and you start moving onto more complex behaviors and training, it will be much easier if you already have an established, thought out way to teach your dog. Consistency is key.

Here's just a few of the many things I do. I teach my dog to sit for everything. Before she gets a treat. If we're playing fetch, before I throw the ball. If we're playing tug, before I release her to get the rope... This accomplishes a few things. First, it teaches your dog that when she sits, good things happen. By combining this with other ideas, which I'll touch on, you are teaching your dog that she can have a positive impact on what happens by doing certain things. In this limited example, suppose we're playing fetch. Sitting means the toy gets tossed. Once you have that established, you can then start to work on patience, and slowly build up the time your dog can sit and wait. When you incorporate this into many things, (more than I just named. Use your imagination!) and start teaching different commands and behaviors, your dog is learning that doing good things means good things will in turn happen. This will help eliminate many of the "problem" behaviors. Why would your dog jump up and bite your hand to get a treat, when she knows it's as easy as sitting calmly? Why would your dog jump on you for attention, when she knows that sitting calmly next to you will get her that attention? Win/win. You don't get knocked over, your dog gets her loving. I like a dog to understand the simple fact that listening is the way to get her favorite things. So, teaching to sit before something happens is a great way to teach a dog to be calm.

I'm a big believer in working training into play. In a typical round of tug, we cover all of the normal obedience commands, in a way that is very fun for the dog. And again, whle doing this, she is learning that her good behavior has positive effects. During initial training, if a dog tries to take the tug before I give a release, we are done, and the tug gets put away. Once or twice is enough to drive home the fact that they're not allowed to take it until told. From a simple game like tug, with a few rules worked in, you are not only getting your dogs energy out in a really fun and interactive way, you're also helping build your dogs confidence (I ALWAYS, without fail let my dog win. I have never once won a round of tug) and most importantly, you are working towards a dog that will never try to take anything out of your hand. Teaching patience, teaching automatic commands, and having fun while doing it. After a while, it becomes second nature. I no longer have to tell my girl "Sit... ok, drop it... ok, etc etc etc. I tell her to go get her tug, she gets it, brings it over, drops it at my feet and waits until I tell her it's ok to grab it and start playing. This now carries over to other toys, objects, etc. If I tell her to go get her ball, she will go get it, and do the same, drop it at my feet.

I love getting creative with ideas, and working them into my play and training. We rarely, rarely do formal training sessions, and my girl is extremely obedient because training is fun, and she truly does enjoy doing what she's told as a result. Almost everyone that meets Dakota is impressed, and wished their dog was like her. Truth is, I'm not doing anything special, and I'm not doing anything that anybody else can't do. It's simply consistency, patience, and learning what makes your dog tick and using that to your advantage. The one thing that I love, again, is thinking up new ways to work training into fun games. Anyone can do this with a little thinking.

These are just a few examples, and hopefully they help you get started in the right direction with a few ideas. Stick around, and keep asking questions, and you'll be in good shape!

Last edited by KevinK; 08-09-2011 at 10:27 PM..
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss all of this. It sounds alot like what our trainer is teaching us to do. You had some really great ideas that I will try.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinK View Post
Also, a few pointers, to elaborate on what I said earlier about earning priveledges. Dobermans are scary smart, if you haven't noticed yet, you'll soon see. It's easy to be tricked, and to let the dog train you, especially if you're not used to working with such a smart, thinking breed. Come up with a set of rules, and stick to them. I would recommend checking out the NILIF program. (nothing in life is free). I would also start to look into different training methods, and getting familiar. Many here like to use some version of behavior markers, whether it's verbal or with a clicker. Personally, I like the verbal, because you don't ever have to be caught without the clicker. (I have the memory of a drunken gnat) Most also use some version of positive reinforcement training. Both are very simple concepts to understand, and it will give some consistency to your training program. When your dog gets older, and you start moving onto more complex behaviors and training, it will be much easier if you already have an established, thought out way to teach your dog. Consistency is key.

Here's just a few of the many things I do. I teach my dog to sit for everything. Before she gets a treat. If we're playing fetch, before I throw the ball. If we're playing tug, before I release her to get the rope... This accomplishes a few things. First, it teaches your dog that when she sits, good things happen. By combining this with other ideas, which I'll touch on, you are teaching your dog that she can have a positive impact on what happens by doing certain things. In this limited example, suppose we're playing fetch. Sitting means the toy gets tossed. Once you have that established, you can then start to work on patience, and slowly build up the time your dog can sit and wait. When you incorporate this into many things, (more than I just named. Use your imagination!) and start teaching different commands and behaviors, your dog is learning that doing good things means good things will in turn happen. This will help eliminate many of the "problem" behaviors. Why would your dog jump up and bite your hand to get a treat, when she knows it's as easy as sitting calmly? Why would your dog jump on you for attention, when she knows that sitting calmly next to you will get her that attention? Win/win. You don't get knocked over, your dog gets her loving. I like a dog to understand the simple fact that listening is the way to get her favorite things. So, teaching to sit before something happens is a great way to teach a dog to be calm.

I'm a big believer in working training into play. In a typical round of tug, we cover all of the normal obedience commands, in a way that is very fun for the dog. And again, whle doing this, she is learning that her good behavior has positive effects. During initial training, if a dog tries to take the tug before I give a release, we are done, and the tug gets put away. Once or twice is enough to drive home the fact that they're not allowed to take it until told. From a simple game like tug, with a few rules worked in, you are not only getting your dogs energy out in a really fun and interactive way, you're also helping build your dogs confidence (I ALWAYS, without fail let my dog win. I have never once won a round of tug) and most importantly, you are working towards a dog that will never try to take anything out of your hand. Teaching patience, teaching automatic commands, and having fun while doing it. After a while, it becomes second nature. I no longer have to tell my girl "Sit... ok, drop it... ok, etc etc etc. I tell her to go get her tug, she gets it, brings it over, drops it at my feet and waits until I tell her it's ok to grab it and start playing. This now carries over to other toys, objects, etc. If I tell her to go get her ball, she will go get it, and do the same, drop it at my feet.

I love getting creative with ideas, and working them into my play and training. We rarely, rarely do formal training sessions, and my girl is extremely obedient because training is fun, and she truly does enjoy doing what she's told as a result. Almost everyone that meets Dakota is impressed, and wished their dog was like her. Truth is, I'm not doing anything special, and I'm not doing anything that anybody else can't do. It's simply consistency, patience, and learning what makes your dog tick and using that to your advantage. The one thing that I love, again, is thinking up new ways to work training into fun games. Anyone can do this with a little thinking.

These are just a few examples, and hopefully they help you get started in the right direction with a few ideas. Stick around, and keep asking questions, and you'll be in good shape!
KevinK - this writeup is so bang on / should come with every puppy.
Along these lines...I also train with fun games and my voice is the marker.

Dobermanhs - with a puppy, I like to train sitting down on the living room floor and get my eyes down to the puppy's level / not as intimidating, than standing over them. I train Tug to build confidenance & Play Fetch for voice training:
**************************
Fetch - with frisbee in hand:
- voice the dogs name, waving the toy
- when the dog comes over, get the dogs eye contact & say Fetch / while tossing the toy several feet
- the exact moment the puppy picks up the toy / say Come with much excitment
- reward completed task with loads of praise

One little fun game and the puppy just learned 3-4 commands & things, in like 30 seconds.
Do this several times/day...next time substutute a ball for the frisbee...keep changing the games up, a little.
After several fetch games are completed...its now Tug time.
And like KevinK said...the puppy has to win. From all the play attention, the puppy continues to learn & gives the owner, love & respect.

With a ball, I also practice soft bite / muzzle control.
I rotate my hand (or fingers) in the dogs mouth and the puppy has to ease off the bite force substantially...and its all kept fun, for both of us.
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