jatango

I was reading through the Marienburg thread in the breeder section and got to wondering if anyone knows the temperaments of the dogs in my puppy's pedigree.

http://www.kettlecovedobermans.com/g...opedigree.html

I never actually met Eddie, so I don't know his temperament even though he seems uber-popular lately (as well as heavy in this pedigree). I was reading the article on CyberDobes Past Dogs about Ch. Teraden's The Chocolate Soldier WAC, CGC and was more than pleased to learn that he is way way back on my puppy's pedigree. So have at it, anyone have any info? Feel free to email me if you think it might start trouble.

MaryAndDobes

The pedigree is incorrect to the best of my knowledge regarding Soquel's Distant Thunder having a WAC. I don't believe he passed it. I'm not knocking the dog - I have one of his sons and I love him to bits!

I thought about breeding to Mateo at one time - he reminds me very much of my Rocket in his pictures. Sharon has bred to him previously - did she keep any of those puppies?

Anyway, Mateo's sire died of dcm as did his sire Thunder as did Thunder's mom as did a few of Thunder's littermates (and littermates to my Thunder son for that matter).

Eddie died too young for my liking as well. Sure it may have been surgery related but ultimately we don't know what would have happened to him had he had a normal lifespan so he's questionable in my books from that standpoint. Certainly, he has sired some beautiful puppies who seem to have an outstanding work ethic.

jatango

...yay for being scared! Are there any supplements that can help with DCM prone dogs? I'm going to go ahead and assume that it may happen at some point and be happy that it doesn't. I'm going to digest more of the bitch's side of the pedigree. But every sibling dying of DCM? This disease is so horrible.

I can't find any DCM on dobequest on Ozzi or Eddie or any of the dams, but it may just be that the info isn't entered.

Looking at how many kids thunder sired, it's sad that DCM is so heavy.

I don't think she kept any of those babies, but here are their 8 week stacked photos:

http://www.kettlecovedobermans.com/puppies2.html

BackInBlack

I dont know anything about the pedigree........but I like the red one Good Choice!

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doberkim

Thunder was born on Murreydobe's (on this board) bed, and she owned his mother. She is the first one to talk about what titles Thunder did and did not have, and she is brutally honest about what they all sired. When she lost Murrey, Thunder's dam- she took an ad out to announce it.

I do not know if all of THUNDER's littermates have died of DCM, but he has sired litters were over 75% of the litter, if not more, has died of DCM before 5 years old.

As for dobequest - it is editable by anyone that is a DPCA member - so even if info is put up, if the owner doesn't want it they can remove it, I believe. Many dogs that a cause of death is KNOWN through one venue or another is still not posted. Many people are still afraid of sharing that they have DCM in their dog - especially when the dogs have reproduced, because they fear a backlash.

As for supplements, there are cardioprotective and cardiosupportive supplements, but do they necessarily make a difference in prolonging time until diagnosis in a dog destined to get DCM, who knows. Sometimes we aren't even sure they help dogs with active heart disease. Can they hurt, not at all (for most of them).

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jatango

The internet ate my reply.

Thanks Kim and Mary. I'm just unsure of what to do now. When would I need to start echos/holters/etc? Do I get them interpreted in-house or send them to Guelph? At what age can I start supplementing? What food is best for heart support? Obviously everyone wants to prevent the disease, but does anything actually help strengthen the heart?

I really hope there's a website for this.

Also, anyone know of any DCM on the other side of the pedigree? The bitch is an Ozzi daughter and goes back to Eddie on both sides.

MaryAndDobes

Just to be clear, I didn't say that "every" littermate died of DCM. I think the last I knew that 5 of Thunder's litter died of DCM - murreydobe can correct this info when she returns from Europe. I also didn't say that "every" littermate to my own Thunder son died of DCM.

On the dam's side, it's pretty widely believed that Brunswig's Cryptonite was lost to sudden death DCM - he dropped breeding a bitch. I think he's doubled up in that side?

For me personally, I begin cardiac ultrasounds around the age of 2. I have Holtered as young as 10 or 11 months - if I happen to be Holtering the other dogs and the vest fits the young ones, I don't care how young they are. My ideal schedule is to have cardiac ultrasounds once per year and Holters once per year offset so that they have one of the forms of testing every 6 months. IE ultrasounds in Jan, Holtering in July.

The jury is out on whether cardiac supplements help. Personally, I start giving CoQ10 when they reach the age of about 7.

jatango

Sorry Mary, I didn't mean to exaggerate the facts, I was just pretty anxious learning about the family history. I won't quote you as saying anything of the sort.

sorthund

Hm, I'm just realizing that Thunder is my FiFi's great great great Grandparent

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"FAILING TO PREPARE IS LIKE PREPARING TO FAIL"
Anonymous

jatango

He's closer up in my pup's pedigree by about 2 generations. It's just so sad that dogs with awesome temperaments get so sick. Poor dobies.