Thinking Dogs.. Somebody's got to start it - Page 5 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

**doberkim** · 03-13-2009, 01:02 PM

Terra was an Ace Nominee runner up last year from the AKC in the service dog catergory. (2007, technically). She was
DPCA's 2007 Rescue Dog of the Year and the UDC's 2007 Service Dog of the Year.

Her full name is (was? I don't know if she has more titles) - U-CD Dare's Terra Firma, CDX, VC, WAC, HIC, ThD, CGC, TDI

her owner told the story multiple times on the internet, starting back in 2006. Terra is in fact very much so both a trained dog (evidenced by her titles), and a trained service dog.

her owner is a member of the DPCRMA and her images are seen on their members photo page, along with a little write up that does also list her as a service dog.

Terra had not been trained to retrieve the phone, which was what she did in that instance. But she most certainly is a trained service dog.

**RedFawnRising** · 03-13-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doberkim

Terra was an Ace Nominee runner up last year from the AKC in the service dog catergory. (2007, technically). She was
DPCA's 2007 Rescue Dog of the Year and the UDC's 2007 Service Dog of the Year.

Her full name is (was? I don't know if she has more titles) - U-CD Dare's Terra Firma, CDX, VC, WAC, HIC, ThD, CGC, TDI

her owner told the story multiple times on the internet, starting back in 2006. Terra is in fact very much so both a trained dog (evidenced by her titles), and a trained service dog.

her owner is a member of the DPCRMA and her images are seen on their members photo page, along with a little write up that does also list her as a service dog.

Terra had not been trained to retrieve the phone, which was what she did in that instance. But she most certainly is a trained service dog.

Well, thanks for the info--that does look like the same dog pictured in that article. I guess you can't control journalists and how they write things up, huh?

**avalonandon** · 03-13-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFawnRising

Well, thanks for the info--that does look like the same dog pictured in that article. I guess you can't control journalists and how they write things up, huh?

lol! You been following the political thread?

**RedFawnRising** · 03-13-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avalonandon

lol! You been following the political thread?

No! No energy, do not tempt me. Too many hours on the internet, as it is.

lolonurse · 03-13-2009, 01:46 PM

WOW..... well, I just got finished reading through this entire thread. Fascinating!! I have SO much input I want to give... Well, the first thing I want to say is that I enjoy Von's posts. I am going to make a couple of assumptions here, which may be entirely wrong (if so, Von, please correct me!). Von's techniques and philosophy remind me of my grandfather's. As many of you know, he had Doberman's from the time he was 9 years old, in Germany, in 1910. He began training them, and other dogs, for the army and police, tracking, rescue, message delivery, obedience, protection, and some of the very first service dogs (seeing eye, etc.). He was very much at the forefront of all this. He gave free classes through the Humane Society and community colleges and granges in upstate NY for almost 3 decades. He adored dogs, and respected them, and was wonderful at rehabilitating them. But he was very old-school, and never treated a dog as if it could think in the way we are discussing here. Von, by both your writings and your language, I make the presumption that English is not your first language... if this is the case, I think that may be part of the problem with the communication. I also presume you are among us more "mature" folks. I only say this because I feel I understand most of what you are saying. I do not agree with all of it - but I think your input is very valuable, interesting and grounded. I understand that you have had your feelings hurt - please brush it off, and stay with us?

I'll get into my cute dog stories later - but I did want to tell a couple of neat things. I saw on the news last night, a video of dolphins, I think at Sea World in Florida, but not sure... they found that the dolphins were blowing bubbles from their blow holes, for amusement. They would make a bubble, then push it around, poke it with their snout to divide it into 2, bite the bubbles... in other words, deliberately play games for amusement. This, as we know, is a very highly developed brain function - and all of us delight when babies do it - and we ALL know that our Dobes do it.

Secondly - about birds... I have always had an affinity with animals - I used to be able to "catch" mice, birds, snakes, rabbits, etc., when I was a kid. We love animals, and keep our yard animal friendly and bird friendly.
Last year, we realized that several of the birds we have nesting around our yard were the same year after year. There is a woodpecker (imaginatively called Woody) who watches for us to come outside to play with the dogs. When we go outside, he starts chirping loudly. When I say "Hi Woody", he flies over to the nearest tree and talks at us, and watches the dogs play. The will run to the tree and bark at him - he does NOT fly away. He knows they can't reach him, and he teases them by skittering up and down the branches, flitting from one side to the other and talking to them. Once they get bored and go back to their games, he will scoot almost all the way down to the crotch of the trunk, and hang out, watching us. When he gets bored, he'll screech at them again, and the game starts over. He has been doing this now for several years. There's a lot going on in animal brains. And we really have no right to make a judgment as to who is more important in the grand scheme of things - I'm sure going to the moon and titanium are really low on the priority list for most.

CoDobe · 03-13-2009, 02:05 PM

Wow - this is great stuff, and the reason why I still come to DT (well, not the main reason per se, but a little education every now and then is good, right?

) But I do have to admit that my brain is crammed and I'm attempting to "dummy" this down with a light-hearted story about Shelby & Nissa

I don't have any "intellectual" things to add but I will share this story with you -

One summer evening last year, hubby was outside doing yard work and had Nissa out with him. While he was tending to our yard, Nissa snuck off and accidently ingested insecticide w/o us knowing about it. (We deducted later that this was the only time she could've ingested it).

After our evening, Shelby, our Min Pin, and Nissa, both went to their respective dog beds in our walk-in closet to lay down for the night. About 5 hours into the night, Shelby was in a raging fit in trying to wake up my husband & I. As per the usual, we thought she wanted to play (trust me, usually every night around 2:00 AM, she wants to play), so we fought her off and told her to go lay down. This night, she was not taking no for an answer and progressivly became more aggressive in her posturing and vocals. By the time I came to my senses, Shelby was jumping up and down, hitting her paws on our bed, doing everything she could possibly to do wake us up. When I finally got out of the bed, Shelby led me to the closet and was freaking out - Nissa had thrown up, which wasn't something out of the ordinary for her (she has a sensitive tummy).

So, I proceeded to start the cleaning process and Shelby would not let me do anything but force me to pick Nissa up. Turns out, Nissa's rear-legs were collapsing and could no longer hold her up and was indicative of something far more serious than an upset stomach.

The skinny of this story is that had it not been for Shelby's persistence and thought-process to do something out of the oridinary to wake us up (remember, she always wakes us up at 2:00 to play), we may have very well lost Nissa that night.

Do I think that Shelby had cognitive thoughts to realize something was wrong? Yes, but I also think that part of her reactions were instinctual - she knew Nissa was a different kind of sick. Shelby was caring for Nissa like she would one of her own pups - does this constitute thought or instinct? The thought piece of this would play in with her actions to wake us up...or would that be construed as instinct?

Sort of like the dog that was hit by the car in that crazy traffic in Chile (I think?) and would not leave his side. He then proceeded to drag him across all lanes of traffic out of harms way. Thought or instinct?

I think the definition of thought is more abstract then one might think (no pun intended).

Very interesting, and RFR - I always, always enjoy your posts, even if I don't always agree with your statements.

Please keep them coming - so eloquent and very-well said.

von Cosack Dobermann · 03-13-2009, 02:34 PM

LOLONURSE,That was kind of you to say there are no hard feelings what so ever, I enjoy anything related to dogs except when the reeper comes. I was born here and english is my first language, however my typing is brutal and I'm legally blind now. Viewing the screen and reading alot of threads sometimes gets difficult, I am old school and never negative in my training, no abuse, no prongs, no E collars, no board work, I use my hands to dirrect a pup in teaching, only hands no collars or leashes, I then incorperate a correction collar when lessons are learned and corrections are needed, common sense and knowing behaviors after all these years plus being taught by my Uncle as a child comes down to alot of experience. . Old school was always refered to as a past way of accomblishing something, not that it's inferior to a newer way. Old school can take longer and pay more attention to detail, new school in my thinking is quick, and problems arise as you advance into other more complicated training. I know that from experience, people using methods early that don't equate to successes later. I have fun here whether helping youth or discussing training situations, but as I stated yesterday, anyone can PM anytime if their feelings are hurt, being dirrect is correct, going around corners is what cowards do. I don't want anything to do with people like that or anyone that supports them. I guess thats old school too. best to you. Von.

eclaire · 03-13-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by von Cosack Dobermann

LOLONURSE,That was kind of you to say there are no hard feelings what so ever, I enjoy anything related to dogs except when the reeper comes. I was born here and english is my first language, however my typing is brutal and I'm legally blind now. Viewing the screen and reading alot of threads sometimes gets difficult, I am old school and never negative in my training, no abuse, no prongs, no E collars, no board work, I use my hands to dirrect a pup in teaching, only hands no collars or leashes, I then incorperate a correction collar when lessons are learned and corrections are needed, common sense and knowing behaviors after all these years plus being taught by my Uncle as a child comes down to alot of experience. . Old school was always refered to as a past way of accomblishing something, not that it's inferior to a newer way. Old school can take longer and pay more attention to detail, new school in my thinking is quick, and problems arise as you advance into other more complicated training. I know that from experience, people using methods early that don't equate to successes later. I have fun here whether helping youth or discussing training situations, but as I stated yesterday, anyone can PM anytime if their feelings are hurt, being dirrect is correct, going around corners is what cowards do. I don't want anything to do with people like that or anyone that supports them. I guess thats old school too. best to you. Von.

Von... you never post any pictures of your pups!! I just realized this... I wanna see!!!

Sounds like you have tons of experience

von Cosack Dobermann · 03-13-2009, 03:08 PM

I have recieved E-mails for photos and when I could figure this damn thing out I will, my grandson sent me a photo of me and Odin von Cosack my demo dog from 1965 thru 1977. The photo is from 1967, a very different looking YOUNG man, with a great Dobermann. old school doesn't translate to computer. I will add current photo of Viho Betelges and me Von

**voodoolizard** · 03-13-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by von Cosack Dobermann

I have recieved E-mails for photos and when I could figure this damn thing out I will, my grandson sent me a photo of me and Odin von Cosack my demo dog from 1965 thru 1977. The photo is from 1967, a very different looking YOUNG man, with a great Dobermann. old school doesn't translate to computer. I will add current photo of Viho Betelges and me Von

Maybe this will help von ??

http://www.dobermantalk.com/general-...comp-help.html

if not send me a pm.. and ill give you my email address.. you can forward the pictures to me and ill upload them for you !! benefits of being a mod LOL i can do it for you !!

**Chatty** · 03-13-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brumwolf

We used to have a police k9 handler on here who said and I quote "that they didn't use many Dobermans as k9 dogs because unlike a GSD they would try to THINK their way around situations" and that came from someone who is "working" with dogs in situations almost every day.

The man we bought our house from is a K9 sheriff, his working dog was Malinois. He told us the same exact thing about dobermans. He said it's because they think about the situation before they act, which is very risky in police work. He would say they are the most intelligent dog out there.

lolonurse · 03-13-2009, 08:58 PM

Thank you, Von. I hope I wasn't too forward, and your answer probably helps us all understand you a bit better. I appreciate the "old school" way of doing things myself. It's how I was taught, and my grandfather did it that way for 80 years, and taught me from the time I was a little girl, so I've been doing it that way for almost 50 years myself!! When I helped him teach his classes, he was always so patient, but SO firm in his replies to people who wanted to rush things, move ahead because they felt their dog was too advanced or too smart or whatever. He would always tell them that they were welcome to enroll in anyone else's classes that they wanted to, but if they were in his class, they had to train his way. There were only a couple of people, in all the years, who were wiseguys and left to do it on their own - and all but 1 actually came back to him after a time, sheepishly, asking for help with their "problem" dog. I have often kicked myself for not following in his footsteps. Lois

lolonurse · 03-13-2009, 09:10 PM

My dogs are very smart, very thoughtful, very clever, and absolutely do think, reason, problem-solve and have wicked senses of humor. And since each of them has or had entirely unique personalities, I have no doubt whatsoever that each was or is an individual, with a heart, a soul and an active brain. I remember, years ago, people would say that animals don't have memories, and so if something happens in their lives, they just move on, because it's forgotten. But that isn't why they move on - they move on because they live for the now. In that respect, we could learn a lot from them, since most of us live in the past, waiting for the future. Not very Zen of us.

I also want to remark that animals understand language. They are capable of learning multiple communication methods. I have had friends who had hearing assist dogs who learned American Sign Language, and would respond to it not just from their own human, but from other AmSLan users. Our dogs respond to sentences, individual words, and sounds. We have also very carefully listened to the vocalizations they make during certain activities, and mimicked them when we wanted them to display those activities - and it works. They have specific sounds they make for certain types of play and activity, and we use those same sounds to rev them up and get them involved. It's great to speak more than one language!! We speak Doberman.

Linda H · 03-20-2009, 05:08 PM

I know this is old but I have to bring up the hummingbird that comes to the door when the feeder needs refilling.
The dog that brings its bowl to you because it is hungry.
My house broken dog that went to the door and peed while staring at me defiently(his eyes sure looked that way)because I kept putting him off since I wanted to sleep a little longer. Not the ususal door he went out of, which was out of my sight, but the one right in front of where I was laying.
The time he was in the water and a boy thru a tennis ball for him to fetch and it hit him by mistake. He was looking at the boy, then at the ball, at the boy, at the ball. About the third look I realized he was trying to decide if the boy hit him on purpose or not and he was going to nip him if he decided it was on purpose and told him to get the ball that was right in front of him where it had floated after hitting him.
I could go on.......

MaddiesMom · 03-20-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paws

So Tre had just found a chewy that was lying in some corner of the room. The MIn Pin meanwhile finds a tennis ball. SHe could care less about the tennis ball. But meanwhile she gets up on the couch and flips on her back and holds that ball between her paws, and sort of juggles it around on her feet, altogether acting like she is having the most amazing time with this ball. I mean, give her the Oscar, she is the picture of giddy contentment with the ball. So Tre who is a little slow (he's ony 4 months) comes up like a big goof (doh dee doh dee doh...) to see what is going on, chewie dangling nonchalantly out the side of his mouth... Min draws him in with her juggling trick, she is mesmerizing... she is having such an insane amount much fun that he has to have that ball. He finally can't stand it, he drops the chewie for the ball, Min fast as lightening grabs the chewy and takes off at top speed to enjoy her victory prize. Tre looks on dumbfounded as the ball drops out of his mouth. She does stuff like this with him all. the. time. He doesn't stand a chance.

My chinese crested does the same thing to my poor guy, and he's over a year now...he's not dumb but she is SO good at making what she has look better....craftly little dogs.

**RedFawnRising** · 03-20-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda H

I know this is old but I have to bring up the hummingbird that comes to the door when the feeder needs refilling.
The dog that brings its bowl to you because it is hungry.
My house broken dog that went to the door and peed while staring at me defiently(his eyes sure looked that way)because I kept putting him off since I wanted to sleep a little longer. Not the ususal door he went out of, which was out of my sight, but the one right in front of where I was laying.
The time he was in the water and a boy thru a tennis ball for him to fetch and it hit him by mistake. He was looking at the boy, then at the ball, at the boy, at the ball. About the third look I realized he was trying to decide if the boy hit him on purpose or not and he was going to nip him if he decided it was on purpose and told him to get the ball that was right in front of him where it had floated after hitting him.
I could go on.......

Ooh, did you see the story on the egrets (I think, some sort of smaller water bird, maybe a lesser heron) that were fishing in new way?

They were going and getting bread that folks had tossed for some other birds, breaking it into small pieces with their beaks, dropping it off the pier onto the surface of the water, and then nailing the fish who came to the surface to feed on it.

Linda H · 03-20-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFawnRising

Ooh, did you see the story on the egrets (I think, some sort of smaller water bird, maybe a lesser heron) that were fishing in new way?

They were going and getting bread that folks had tossed for some other birds, breaking it into small pieces with their beaks, dropping it off the pier onto the surface of the water, and then nailing the fish who came to the surface to feed on it.

I did happen to catch that. I guess we people have been the dumb ones all along.