TracyJo

Is there any benefit for pet owners to apply for a membership with the DPCA? Can pet owners apply for membership or better yet, will pet owners be approved for membership?
Just curious really... Was researching more on albinos and have spent a significant amount of time at dpca.org and the links provided there today... It is a truly wonderful site with tons of invaluable information. Wondered if my $30.00 membership dues would help with research, rescue or whatever...

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~Tracy

Doberman Talk Store

Blackdog

Pet owners can certainly apply and unless they've done "bad things" (byb, breeding albinos, animal cruelty, etc.) that people know about, they should be approved. I joined when all I had was rescue dobes. You do have to have two DPCA members sign your application. Your name and your sponsors are then posted and if someone has a problem with your joining, they write to the board.

I don't honestly know what dues is used for. Members do get a publication called the Pipeline 4 or so times a year with Club information.

You can donate separately to rescue and health research.

morrmar

"Was researching more on albinos and have spent a significant amount of time at dpca.org and the links provided there today... It is a truly wonderful site with tons of invaluable information."

I agree, it's a highly informative site, even though the design is cumbersome at best. However, in doing research before we got Karma, I had very poor experience with one of the officers that _totally_ soured me on them. She lives in the same part of NC as I do and her number was listed on the site so I gave her a call to inquire about reputable breeders in our general vicinity. She was very enthusiastic at first as we talked about the temperment and quality of Dobes and how they are generally misunderstood by the general public. I told her what I was looking for, stressing pet quality - not show or working, good temperment, not raised in a large kennel/puppy mill, no byb, etc. When I told her I was looking to spend around $400 -600 USD, her general demeanor changed, dramatically.

She essentially said if I wasn't willing to pay at _least_ $1500, I would be better off looking at the local animal shelter because there's no way I could get a "quality" dog for less than that. She didn't even mention rescue dogs, just that I should look at the animal shelter for a pet if I couldn't commit to a large financial investment up front. I was astonished at the change in her tone, it was like I insulted her. I make my living talking with people over the phone so I'm very tuned in to changes in voice inflection, phonation, ect. This wasn't my imagination. I politely thanked her for speaking with me and hung up the phone feeling very frustrated.

After talking to our vet and doing further research on the Web, I found Karma's breeder in another state and got her for $400. As should be quite obvious from my posts in this forum, I could not be more pleased with her.

I now understand the abrupt change in the DPCA officers demeanor. If you read the application, you'll see this:

"Prices of Doberman Pinschers should be based upon individual quality. Members should maintain prices so as not to be injurious to the breed."

That pretty well says it all. I guess they don't realize not everyone can afford a Rolls Royce when they're looking to purchase a new car.

"Wondered if my $30.00 membership dues would help with research, rescue or whatever..."

Personally, I'd donate the $30 to any of the highly reputable Dobe rescue organizations that are actually doing things that directly improve the lives of this breed we love so much.

velmadobe

Maybe she could have steered you towards rescue although she did talk about shelters, but I basically would have told you the same thing. No reputable breeder could produce a puppy for the price you were willing to pay unless they were independently wealthy and could afford to take a big loss. The cost of producing a healthy litter from champion health tested parents is huge. Add to that the cost of raising Doberman puppies: docking, cropping, shots, worming, food.......etc......... $400-$600 just does not begin to cover the cost. I won't even tell you how many $1000's I have invested into the bitch I am showing right now, and how many $1000's I put into Velma and then ended up spaying her. I've got $1000's more to go with Louise to get to the point of even breeding her with no guarentee that it will even happen. If all I was interested in was money, I would have bred Velma a couple of times by now and sold all her puppies for around $1500. She is a wonderful bitch, but was not destined to be my foundation so I spayed her.

I am a member of the DPCA, and I don't think that $30/year is too much to spend on the organization that works its as* off to maintain the quality of the breed in so many ways. You have no idea where the money goes and I'm not going to list it for you - the one thing I do know is that no-one collects a salary and as far as I know, the officers pay their own expences. I am also a member of my local Doberman club and a volunteer officer. I joined the local club first, got to know the people (and they me), then I joined the DPCA. I would be happy to sponsor someone I know well and who is truly a good Doberman person for membership. They don't have to show or breed to be a good Dobe person. Not everyone in the DPCA is a good Doberman person - there will always be a few bad apples - but most of them are good people who love Dobermans.

I'm glad you love your dog - it would be sad if you did not. People like the lady you talked to spend a ton of time talking to the general public about our breed. We see it all, and sorry if spending more time talking to someone who obviously wants a dog for much less than a good breeder can produce one for is not on their agenda. I spend hours talking to people about both rescue and good breeders - my time is valuable - Isn't yours??

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Dillon's Barclay Amy CD RN WAC CGC TDInc "Velma"
CH Cha-Rish A Moment Like This RN WAC CGC "Louise"
Fitzmar's Command A Minute "Harvard" (10 pts/both majors)
http://fitzmardobermans.freeservers.com/

morrmar

"The cost of producing a healthy litter from champion health tested parents is huge. Add to that the cost of raising Doberman puppies: docking, cropping, shots, worming, food.......etc......... $400-$600 just does not begin to cover the cost. I won't even tell you how many $1000's I have invested into the bitch I am showing right now, and how many $1000's I put into Velma and then ended up spaying her."

You've hit a sore spot with me and I don't mean nor want to be disrespectful but what you've written demonstrates the typical ignorance and arrogance of many "show" people. And you're making the same mistake as the DPCA officer did. Not everyone needs nor _wants_ a show dog. The fact that a dog has earned a CH title means absolutely _nothing_ to me. I'm not interested in a dog who has the "proper" brisket or forelegs and can prance around a show ring. Not only would such a dog be useless to me, it would probably not survive long in the environment I live in should it get out from under my control.

As I've stated before, when I was young and foolish, my dogs were outside dogs. And I mean they lived entirely outside with no fenced in area. Where I live, there are thousands and thousands of acres of forrest. There are bear, coyote, fox, and contrary to what you will read in wildlife books, mountain lions. Last week, I killed a rattlesnake underneath my deck. This is the environment my dogs live in, which I'm sure is quite different than yours.

Back in the 80's my Augie, who incidentally was a Dobe from a byb, was a _true_ working dog. He protected my house and land with a vengence. Hunters who came too close to the house were warned to stay away by his mere presence, not to mention a menacing growl. One day he came back barely alive, he had tangled with a bear. He was chewed up, literally. We nursed him back to health and in about a month, he went back, tangled with it again and lost his life. I eventually shot the bear, who had lost it's fear of humans and was a menace to all who lived up on our mountain. Your Velma, while no doubt a true CH dog, would not _survive_ in my environment. My Augie was a whole lot more true to the original purpose of the breed than your Velma is, without a doubt.

Different people have different needs when they decide to bring a dog into their family. Again, not everyone is like you and wants a CH Dobe, or can afford one. I'm glad you have thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on show dogs. I have four human children who are in college, getting ready to get married and trying to buy houses in the over-inflated real estate market. That's is where my money is going so consequently, I don't have a couple of grand laying around the house to spend on a "show" Dobe.

Let me try this analogy again so maybe you can understand:

Not everyone who is looking to by a new car wants, nor _needs_ a Rolls Royce. Is the Rolls Royce worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars? To some people, absolutely. To others, like me, not a chance. The Rolls Royce couldn't even get up my driveway. Why is that so difficult for you "show" people to understand?

"You have no idea where the money goes and I'm not going to list it for you - "

I could care less. But what I know, for a _fact_, is that $30 USD will go much further in making the actual life of a real live Dobe _better_ if donated to a rescue organization than it would going to support an arrogant group of people who think they are the only ones who know what constitutes "quality" in a Dobe.

"I am also a member of my local Doberman club and a volunteer officer..."

I commend you for your involvement but that doesn't qualify you as being more concerned about or qualified to judge the "quality" of Dobe than I am.

"I'm glad you love your dog - it would be sad if you did not"

I'm sure you love yours as well. I always try to find a point I can agree on with those who I disagree with and in your post, this is about the only thing I can agree with you on.

"...sorry if spending more time talking to someone who obviously wants a dog for much less than a good breeder can produce one for is not on their agenda."

Your defintion of "good" or "quality" is quite obviously different than mine. Your dogs would be utterly useless in my environment, as mine would be in yours. But that most assuredly does _not_ mean your dogs are of higher "quality" or "better" bred than mine.

"I spend hours talking to people about both rescue and good breeders - my time is valuable - Isn't yours??"

I'm glad you have that luxury. I have a family to take care of and a business to run so I'm not quite as "lucky" as you. But I'll take my $400 Karma over your multi-thousand dollar Velma... any day of the week.

velmadobe

Put quite simply in terms you understand: You are a first class ass.

__________________
Dillon's Barclay Amy CD RN WAC CGC TDInc "Velma"
CH Cha-Rish A Moment Like This RN WAC CGC "Louise"
Fitzmar's Command A Minute "Harvard" (10 pts/both majors)
http://fitzmardobermans.freeservers.com/

MaryAndDobes

A lot of people say that, and change their tune when they learn their dog from a byb is a vWD bleeder or comes down with hip dysplasia or some other problem that can usually be avoided by health testing the parents and having a thorough knowledge of the pedigree and ancestors of the parents. That is the key area where bybs fall short. They usually know nothing of what came before the dogs they happen to own and are breeding.

That is NOT to say that well-bred dogs may not have problems. The difference being that someone usually tried hard to avoid the problems with the well-bred, pedigreed dogs. When the byb dogs dodge bullets, they are just lucky.

IMO, your post is just as arrogant as what you're accusing others of. Karma is a puppy, I believe. Talk to us when she's 12 ...

Like Mary Jo, I talk to hundreds of Doberman owners a year in my rescue work and as a breeder. A huge majority of them have owned byb dogs who did not meet their needs when it came to longevity, health, temperament, working ability, etc and they are trying to do better with their next purchase.

Murreydobe

This statement is just plain ignorant. I'm not 'dissing making contributions to rescue, but the DPCA has and continues to make *great* efforts to improve the well being of ALL dobermans.

The DPCA helped fund the research the resulted in the dna test for vWD being developed. IN the last year, they've helped fund a couple of different research projects centered around DCM to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.

The club has also been forerunners in fighting BSL.

This is in addition to a variety of different educational programs And for the record, the people you're calling arrogant, those awful "show people" were the ones who created the concept of purebred rescue, and made it a reality.

It's really best to have actual facts before you open your mouth. The DPCA isn't perfect, no person or organization can make that claim. But the club and it's membership make great efforts to improve life for the individual dog and the breed as a whole on an ongoing basis.

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CH. Birchrun Who's On First, aka Razzle
Foxfire N KO Simply Madness WAC, aka Connor

morrmar

"Put quite simply in terms you understand: You are a first class ass."

What an insightful and thought provoking response. Well thought out, sound reasoning, and above all indicative of the intelligence of the author.

I am quite thoroughly skewered by your rapier-like wit. What's next, "Sez you!"

BTW, that was a rhetorical question so don't bother to respond. You clearly cannot disagree with someone else's opinion without becoming disagreeable and I don't waste my time responding to those of your ilk.

To Tracy-Jo,

I'm sorry this has degenerated into this type of thread. It was not my intent for this to happen. If the two individuals I have communicated with in this organization are representative of the group as a whole, it should be blantantly obvious how effective your donation would be in improving research or rescue efforts. _My_ money would go here:

http://www.doberman-rescue.com/home.php

or here:

http://www.dru.org/

or here:

http://www.ablink.demon.co.uk/

or here:

http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer

But then again, to paraphrase Groucho Marx, I'd never belong to a club that would have _me_ as a member. (If I used IE, I'd put one of those jumping smiley faces here)

velmadobe

Well, I call them like I see them.

What you don't seem to get is that my money also goes to rescue as well as my time. I volunteer several hours to rescue every month. One of the many hats I wear in the club I belong to is that of the rescue liaison along with the WAE Chair and the recording secretary. If you ever bothered to look closely at my website you would see that I am a volunteer for my local rescue.

I've dealt with too many people like you who think that they know it all because they have a Doberman, and they read way too many macho accounts of working dogs on sites like Leerburgs (it is not a terrible site, but is very limited). I've seen way too many puppies that people bought from bybers for $400 (or thereabouts) that later end up in rescue because breeders like that have no interest in taking back what they breed when the people they sell them to no longer want them. Instead of supporting another breeder like that, you could have tried rescue as was suggested.

I've got nothing against people who buy a Doberman (or any breed) from a less than reputable breeder out of a lack of knowledge - my first Doberman was byb all the way. It is the arrogence of people like you who apparently think that because they don't have a show quality dog and didn't want to pay the money for one - can just assume mine are only good for "prancing" around a show ring. You are full of sh*t and it shows. I've spent years studying and working with this breed, and still have much to learn. I've never said anything bad about a nice working Doberman, but put up with the slurs and outright nastiness from people like you all the time. It gets old.

I'm not rich, I've got young kids, and I struggle to afford to show my dogs. If you must know, I'm doing it with a very small amount of money that I inherited when my Mom died. I devote a lot of my free time to helping out people with their Dobermans - no matter where they got them. So sorry if I have less than an admirable amount of tolerance for people like you who feel that because they can't afford what I have, they must find fault with it so that they can then feel superior in some way.

Not sure why I bothered with this.

__________________
Dillon's Barclay Amy CD RN WAC CGC TDInc "Velma"
CH Cha-Rish A Moment Like This RN WAC CGC "Louise"
Fitzmar's Command A Minute "Harvard" (10 pts/both majors)
http://fitzmardobermans.freeservers.com/