breakarm87

WOulda really helped if I woulda had more resources for finding a puppy if people would really do this. But my little girl is a good healthy dog anyways thank God.

The scandal of marketing purebred dogs « Ruffly Speaking: Railing against idiocy since 2004

RedFawnRising

Hmm, this is really timely, as we have a thread going now, discussing some of what this blogger is talking about, esp. this:

As breed clubs, we need to address the issue of the puppy advertising websites. I don’t think it would be out of the question to have good breeders actually participate on the sites, as long as the care in placing the puppies is not compromised, but there should at least be an effort to provide an ad that’s a “front” for the breed club. Make it the MOST adorable and MOST perfect, renew it once a week, and direct people to that rescue-friendly information about how to find a good breeder and why the breed isn’t for everyone.

We need to recognize the power of the lowest-common-denominator sites-craigslist is the flagship. I would advise AGAINST advertising actual dogs on craigslist, but the breed club should have a constant presence. If the club posted two messages a day: “NEED TO FIND A NEW HOME FOR YOUR LHASA? WE’RE HERE TO HELP” and “LOOKING FOR A LHASA PUPPY? DON’T GET SCAMMED! CLICK HERE” a great deal of good information could be given out.

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GunnersMum

Many good points in that article. Thank you for sharing the link.

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"In seeking wisdom, the first step is silence, the second listening, the third remembering, the fourth practicing, the fifth -- teaching others."

-Ibn Gabirol, poet and philosopher (c. 1022-1058)

sebsyd

As I read the article, I found some really valid points and certainly something to think about. The best buyer for anything is an educated buyer. Wouldn't it be a perfect world if we were all really educated on subjects like buying our pets? Thank you for sharing the article, which I probably would not have seen otherwise.

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"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your Doberman. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."

Jennifer01

I'm glad to see this article because I thought it had some great points.

Before I joined DT and became aware of what makes a reputable breeder, I made many of the same assumptions that were pointed out in the article. I always wondered why the voice of the reputable breeder was silent compared to the clamor of advertising by BYBs and commercial breeders.

I would love to hear the thoughts and observations of our DT breeders about this article.

I must have missed this. RFR- mind telling me which thread?

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One of the most dangerous things that can happen to a child is to kill or torture an animal and get away with it.--Margaret Mead

Mythical Doberman Society #4.

RedFawnRising

Sure. Here it is.

Coincidentally, I started an article the other night, on the ways uneducated buyers get sucked in. Then life got even crazier, holidays and all, so prob. won't get back to finish it for a bit, but this link the OP gave is certainly helpful.

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Jennifer01

Thanks, RFR.

Oops, I have been to that thread. Silly me.

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One of the most dangerous things that can happen to a child is to kill or torture an animal and get away with it.--Margaret Mead

Mythical Doberman Society #4.

breakarm87

No problem ya'll. Someone posted on the pitbull forum I am a member of. I have also found it weird that it seems so hard to find a great breeder.

RedFawnRising

So, breakarm, would you share how you found your breeder?

What caught your eye about their advertising? How easy were they to find and to get a call-back from?

I really want to know what "sells" puppies, so the ethical breeders can use some of those same techniques to catch buyers' eyes, in order to educate them.

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breakarm87

Well mine would have to be considered a byb because they don't breed to have puppies. Rikku's mom was a red Dobie 2.5 years old an her daddy was 8. Both healthy an everything an the momma is fixed now so no more puppies. But I just found them over the internet an they happened to be in my area an had puppies ready to go. They were selling them at 9 weeks old tails an dewclaws removed first two sets of shots an dewormed an they have papers on them I have Rikku's form I just haven't sent it off yet. The daddy had no health problems an the momma had no health problems but I still plan on getting Rikku checked on alot as she gets older. But the internet is the best option to try an get exposure on in my opinion. I didn't really just go with the cheapest most convenient dog I could find either I wanted to find one that had paper, healthy, wasn't skittish or shy, an were raised in good conditions. Rikku an them were raised in the house an the peoples son played with the puppies alot everyday to get them socialzed good an I have a half pitbull half beagle lol that I got from my cousin that she plays with all the time now. But yeah I just found my byb on the internet. ALthough I don't like labeling them as that because the lady kept in touch after she sold me the puppy to check up on her an make sure she took well too us an ask how she was then sent me some pics of the mommy an daddy to keep. She gave me all the puppies medical records an everything also.

breakarm87

Oh an as far as the call back it took her two days to call me back an the people actually only lived 5 miles from me an I didn't know anyone lived that close to me that owned dobermans. An what caught my eye was how close the owners lived to me. I had been talking to another lady that lived in NC Peggy Davis supposed to be a good breeder from the way she talked but her pups were $1000. An they seemed more shy than Rikku but they did seem like good dogs. I mean it just sit right there beside me. But Rikku was younger an a little bigger than her's were an she wasn't quite as much money. An Peggy's next litter was going to be 1800 a pup. I mean I am all about bettering the breed an everything an wanting to see healthy dogs but 1800 is RIDICULOUS in my opinion. That is too much for a dog I could buy a good car for that much. Or make a couple house payments. IMO the dogs don't have to be that expensive to be a healthy dog. An Rikku is just as smart as the next dog I think. She learned sit an paw a week after I got her. It took her two days to learn her name an come. I have had her 2 weeks tomorrow.

RedFawnRising

Okay, if I am correctly reading a mild bit of defensiveness in your reply, let me just say, I was truly asking, for information, not to challenge you.

So, this breeder came up on a search, was local to you, and they told you there were no health problems, plus the pups had been socialized to kids, right?

I've been in dogs so very long, frankly, I think I've forgotten how most people go about finding a puppy to buy--so I really want to know what the deciding factors were, for you, in making a purchase decision. Wait, let me clarify, most people, once they see the puppies and smell the puppy breath, cannot walk away!

I guess more what I'm looking for, is what attracts people to make the first contact with the owners/breeders of advertised puppies.

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breakarm87

No there wasn't no defensiveness lol. I was probably just tired when I wrote that last night I had just gotten off from a long day of work. Thats the problem with the internet, can't ever tell how someone is feeling. I was really laid back in tired to be honest I would probably sounded stoned talking to you lol, from where I was so tired.

But what attracted me was just knowing they had puppies that had been checked out at the vet an were healthy. An I went to see them an meet the parent puppies an their kid who played with them everyday. An the price wasn't the most expensive in the world. I think that is a big factor for most people is the price because alot of people that really would take care of the dog an give it affection an the attention it deserves just are not willing to pay a HUGE price for a pet. Most people aren't willing to pay over $500. I know a guy that fights dogs talking about he wouldn't sale his pups for less than $1000 because their grandpa was a fighting champion. Just so you know I DON"T agree with the fighting thing just to make that clear. His business is his business though at least thats how I was raised. But if you really wanna know what makes the sale it's usually the price, convenience of distance, an how bad the person wants the pet. Plus it would be alot easier to find a dog if you could see an ad in the paper. People aren't going to think your a puppy mill just because your in the paper. Only your peers that breed with you are that harsh in their judgement. But who's opinion matters more. The good home your trying to find for the puppy or a fellow breeders?

thea2003

I think honestly it cmes down to availability, and ease of buying.
Lots of people even SPECTACULAR owners dont like to go through the trouble of filling out an adoption form, they know they are good owners they dont feel they should have to go through such a pain just to get a dog.
Also we live in a fast society we want things NOW!
My uncle who had a 12yr old malamute spent tons of money trying to keep alive, was an excellent home for a puppy, he asked me to find a mal breeder for him i gave him some numbers but he was turned off because he had to fill out an adoption form and have an interview etc.
My cousin wanted to adopt from the SPCA but didnt want the hassel of going up to fill out the form... i filled out the form for her so she could just go pick out the kitten she wanted...she is an excellent home in my book she feeds premium food her cats are strictly indoor, but she didnt have the time to go fill out a form.

Most people just want what they want WHEN they want it, and that is what makes BYB's and mass producers so appealing IMO

breakarm87

Well put thea2003. That is the honest God's truth what you just said.

RedFawnRising

Yeah, that's pretty much what we've all assumed, but I wanted to hear it from someone who just recently went thru this thought process, Breakarm.

One other thing--because I won't stand by silent--this, from your post: I know a guy that fights dogs talking about he wouldn't sale his pups for less than $1000 because their grandpa was a fighting champion. Just so you know I DON"T agree with the fighting thing just to make that clear. His business is his business though at least thats how I was raised.

I realize this was not the topic of this thread, but, look--these dogs are without voices. If you know who is fighting them, then you have a responsibility, as a compassionate human being, to be a voice for them. You do, no matter how you were raised--you can make your own choices now. I hope that choice is to report him and get those dogs some help.

Thanks for answering my questions, I do appreciate it.

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2RescuedDobies

[quote=breakarm87;298137]Oh an as far as the call back it took her two days to call me back an the people actually only lived 5 miles from me an I didn't know anyone lived that close to me that owned dobermans. An what caught my eye was how close the owners lived to me. I had been talking to another lady that lived in NC Peggy Davis supposed to be a good breeder from the way she talked but her pups were $1000. An they seemed more shy than Rikku but they did seem like good dogs. I mean it just sit right there beside me. But Rikku was younger an a little bigger than her's were an she wasn't quite as much money. An Peggy's next litter was going to be 1800 a pup. I mean I am all about bettering the breed an everything an wanting to see healthy dogs but 1800 is RIDICULOUS in my opinion. That is too much for a dog I could buy a good car for that much. Or make a couple house payments. IMO the dogs don't have to be that expensive to be a healthy dog. An Rikku is just as smart as the next dog I think. She learned sit an paw a week after I got her. It took her two days to learn her name an come. I have had her 2 weeks tomorrow.[/QUOTE

As far as how much you pay for a Dobie 1800 is not all that rediculous if you are into dog sport and are looking for the next regional or world champion. For a pet that is way too much. You can adopt a rescue for under 300. It just all depends what you plan on doing with the dog and again you've go to do your research

kenc18901

I agree with the earlier comment of choosing a breeder. I am in the market now for a Doberman. I am looking for a breeder that is close to me so that I can hold, touch and find a bound to my new Doberman. I need an assurence of health and wellbeing. I am not to interested in championship papers since I am looking for a compainion dog for my home. I do want a correct Doberman and a healthy one. Price does come into play since I do not plan on showing her.

breakarm87

Well Redfawn I am not a snitch an never have been. He will get caught one day. I could actually collect a reward if I reported him but I have no proof he fights them except him telling me he fights them. The dogs looked healthy I went back an petted them one day an none of them looked like they had been fought an by that I mean they didn't have any marks on them he said just the one boy one Max fought 1 time but that was it an I have no proof he would just say they are pets an I would be labeled a snitch an nothing would be done about it so it would be a waste of time. Now if this guys dogs woulda looked horrible an not taken care of an I woulda had proof then yes I woulda turned him in an gladly got my reward but you have to have proof before turning someone in an I don't have that.

thea2003

***BE forewarned this post may come off extreemely nasty!!!***

Get over the being a snitch thing these poor dogs are suffering because you (and other people) wont say anything because you dont want to be labeled a snitch.
When i was looking for my first apartment, I went to look at an apartment there was a cat with a gimpy(for lack of better word) leg, and an extremely skinny dog.
I thought to myself...if i snitch... i may not get my apartment and i NEED a place to live, but if i dont do anything... I couldnt live with myself, so I called the SPCA anyways, regardless of whether anything happened with it(maybe i was over reacting about the animals) I felt that i did the right thing and had i not done it, it would have eaten me up inside, I also have taken a FRIENDS cat because they left it outside "because she bothers the dog" the poor cat got barely any food, was missing an ear from frost bite, and this is my best friend... I stole her cat, and i wouldnt hesitate to do it again!!!

My point being.... do it for the dogs, dont worry about being a snitch...maybe you will be a snitch but at least you will know you are doing the right thing....feel free to PM me, I have no problem calling your local SPCA.

Jennifer01

What more proof do you need besides his admission. An admission is the same as "confession." If anything, that should be enough to start off some kind of investigation from the proper authorities.

Leave an anonymous tip. I doubt you'll be found out.

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One of the most dangerous things that can happen to a child is to kill or torture an animal and get away with it.--Margaret Mead

Mythical Doberman Society #4.

RedFawnRising

Huh?

Not a snitch.
Protector of innocent animals.

Which is more noble?

And--there is actually a reward offered for this individual? Seriously? So, authorities are so desperate to prosecute him/catch him, they have offered a reward?

I assume you're not in prison/on the same cell block with this azzhat. Not gonna get shanked for reporting his own confession, huh?

What you are calling "snitch," most reasonable humans out here call "responsible citizen."

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breakarm87

No a confession isn't enough you have to have proof trust me I have checked up on. It's not a reward for this one guy just anyone dog fighting you know of going on in general that leads to an arrest, BUT you have to have proof just a hearsay wasn't enough to go on. Im sure they have been out to his house but couldn't prove anything. Plus I don't know anything about where they fought these dogs or anything I just worked with this guy one time an he wanted me to see his dogs cause he found out I liked dogs an wanted a Pitbull an he said he had 6 of them. They were gorgeous dogs. He had a black female who was one of the prettiest dogs I have ever seen. He said that one at the very back a brown one was the only one he had ever fought from what I remember an the dog won or something like that but I didn't see any marks on any of the dogs so IDK. Im not going to try an get someone in trouble that is barley making a living an taking care of a little girl an I DON"T KNOW FOR A FACT that he was really fighting the animals an thats just how I look at it. I love animals an if I seen him fighting them I would def get him in trouble but not just off of hearsay an couldn't off of just that anyways because I checked into it. I coulda used the reward money to help pay for Rikku's vet bills haha. We are going to see about her ears Friday.

RedFawnRising

...He said that one at the very back a brown one was the only one he had ever fought from what I remember an the dog won or something like that but I didn't see any marks on any of the dogs so IDK. Im not going to try an get someone in trouble that is barley making a living an taking care of a little girl an I DON"T KNOW FOR A FACT that he was really fighting the animals an thats just how I look at it...

Sigh. Once more. Then somebody else can take a stab at it, no pun intended.

Ever consider maybe the little girl is in danger, as well, if she's being raised by someone who thinks it's cool to have dogs shred each other 'til bloody or maimed or dead?

I mean we here don't KNOW FOR A FACT that this story you're telling is even true, but we are taking your words at face value. If someone whose house I was visiting told me they fought their pits--and even pointed out the one that supposedly "won," I'd take those words at face value and you can skip jack damn bet I'd be contacting someone about it. It's not your job to PROVE he is doing this, that is the job of the authorities. It's not your job to report it either, but it is a moral responsibility, which you are choosing to avoid.

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Zero509

I was just reading a post where a DT member received a notice and had to talk to an officer about her dog "running at large".

I would think that dog fighting is a bit more serious. I would just leave an anonymous tip. I'm sure he's bragged to more people about his "champion fighters".

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