Geico + Dobermans = No Go - Page 3

**Tess-a-boo** · 09-10-2008, 01:29 PM

Before we got Tess I did some calling around to various companies just in case our carrier would give us any problems about having her (they don't btw - we have Erie Insurance - they do have a 'watch' list, but Dobes aren't on it).

Not that it helps you right now because Athena is just a wee little 'un, but some companies allow dogs from their blacklist if they're CGC certified. Just something to keep in mind for the future.

WorkingInSTL · 09-10-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael327

For being honest I received a letter of cancellation and an offer to renew at double the premium AND sign an exclusion on the dog.

Ok so you want to charge me double but I am not covered if the dog bites someone !!!

-

This makes absolutely no sense to me. I have always wondered how in the world this makes any sense.

Jax · 09-10-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

State Farm doesn't have any restrictions...

I work for State Farm in NC - our application questions are 1)Number of dogs in Household 2)Ever bitten anyone 3) trained for attack or quard purposes - if so please explain.

In the 14 years I have been doing this I have never had anyone with a trained guard/attack dog...

imagine that....

In the past we did ask for breed info;dobies, rotties, pitts, gsd's would raise a red flag. Honestly, when someone told me they had one of the above, the answer on the app would have been "mutt". When I bought my house, I had my first Dobe, Louise. When I took photos for app, I made sure Louise was "not" in the picture. Maybe not a super move on my part, but I was not going to tell someone (unless I knew the dog to be aggressive) that I could not insure them because thier "baby" was on the bad dog list.

Travis · 09-10-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jax

I work for State Farm in NC - our application questions are 1)Number of dogs in Household 2)Ever bitten anyone 3) trained for attack or quard purposes - if so please explain.

In the 14 years I have been doing this I have never had anyone with a trained guard/attack dog...

imagine that....

In the past we did ask for breed info;dobies, rotties, pitts, gsd's would raise a red flag. Honestly, when someone told me they had one of the above, the answer on the app would have been "mutt". When I bought my house, I had my first Dobe, Louise. When I took photos for app, I made sure Louise was "not" in the picture. Maybe not a super move on my part, but I was not going to tell someone (unless I knew the dog to be aggressive) that I could not insure them because thier "baby" was on the bad dog list.

Would statefarm not insure the dog if it were trained in Schutzhund or as a personal protection dog?

WorkingInSTL · 09-10-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis

Would statefarm not insure the dog if it were trained in Schutzhund or as a personal protection dog?

There is no insurance company that I know of that will carry a dog with any form of bite training.

Luckily insurance companies don't really know about schutzhund or dog sports. If I perform the proper mental gymnastics, I can answer "no" to the question "is your dog trained to bite", but noone I know of will readily disclose to their insurance carrier that they have a dog with ANY form of bite training.

**RedFawnRising** · 09-10-2008, 02:06 PM

Ooh, I hope Caelestis comes along and chimes in on this one.

Some days, I wish I had pursued law as a career.

This kind of thing just burns me.

I know there is case law that says businesses cannot discriminate against specific classes of persons, or their presumptive actions and behaviors. (I think this one of the aspects of it being illegal for police officers to be "profiling" certain drivers to be pulled over--not that it doesn't still happen, but.)

Maybe I am performing my own mental gymnastics here, but this seems to be a case of a business (insurers) discriminating against a specific class of people (Doberman owners). The presumptive behavior is we will not properly contain, train, and control our dogs, and therefore are a higher liability.

I will be a homeowner again within the next few months (rental property now) and am really interested to see what happens with insurance companies since my male Doberman is my service dog.

KieferstahlDobermann · 09-10-2008, 02:11 PM

I agree with don't ask don't tell.

WorkingInSTL · 09-10-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFawnRising

Ooh, I hope Caelestis comes along and chimes in on this one.

Some days, I wish I had pursued law as a career.

This kind of thing just burns me.

I know there is case law that says businesses cannot discriminate against specific classes of persons, or their presumptive actions and behaviors. (I think this one of the aspects of it being illegal for police officers to be "profiling" certain drivers to be pulled over--not that it doesn't still happen, but.)

Maybe I am performing my own mental gymnastics here, but this seems to be a case of a business (insurers) discriminating against a specific class of people (Doberman owners). The presumptive behavior is we will not properly contain, train, and control our dogs, and therefore are a higher liability.

I will be a homeowner again within the next few months (rental property now) and am really interested to see what happens with insurance companies since my male Doberman is my service dog.

WOW...!!! That puts a VERY interesting spin on things. I would love to see how all of the high-powered attorneys on retainer (because that, in essence, is all an insurance company really is...who else but a bunch of lawyers could come up with a way to charge a person twice the amount as anyone else for something they plan on NOT COVERING anyway ?) resolve that with ADA compliance.

If I was wealthy, I would set up things like this for my own entertainment purposes. Good thing I haven't won the lottery yet...

Jax · 09-10-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Would statefarm not insure the dog if it were trained in Schutzhund or as a personal protection dog?

My underwriter confirmed that No - SF would not cover anyone with a dog trained as such. SF is not concerned about the breed of the dog; but they are concerned with such training. If, for example, you have a dobe pup that has not yet been trained you would be ok. If, in the future you trained your pup for protection - I personally would not let them know as they would be sure to drop coverage making it even harder to get coverage elsewhere. If you trained pup as such, and there was an attack and a claim filed on your policy, they "would" pay for damages, but would likely cancel policy afterwords. I have only seen 1 claim for dog/dog attack and 1 for dog/person. Neither of these dogs were "trained for attack", and SF did not cancel the policy. So, regardless the breed - personal protection trained dogs make insurance companies wig out - IF they know about it.

Did I make that about as clear as mud?

**RedFawnRising** · 09-10-2008, 02:17 PM

I agree, it's gonna be entertaining.

And you can bet I will specifically be inquiring of companies I know have a BSL slant.

Edit, oops, that reply is to Workingin, I forgot to use the quote thing.