Meet the Breed materials?

jatango · 08-14-2008, 09:17 AM

Wonder and I have been nominated to represent dobermans at the Meet the Breed event at the county fair! (About the only time I say, "Darn those ears!") Any ideas on what material to bring, if any? Should I cover his prong or advocate its use? I think the GSD lady will have hers in prongs, but you can't see 'em!

Hubby is doing deployment training remotely, so it's just W and me. He's excited because we're doing the bath-nails-teeth-vaseline routine and that ALWAYS means new people. Should I get him a cute bandana? T-Shirt? Or show everyone how WONDER-full (

) an au natural doberbutt can be?

clipclop · 08-14-2008, 09:28 AM

How cool! Def. put on a bandana... anything that makes him seem more approachable

take pix for us too!

**Burns** · 08-14-2008, 09:33 AM

Congrats on being chosen! That sounds like a lot of fun!

I don't think you need to cover the prong, but a bandana would be nice

That's what I did for Red when we went to the Tulip Festival parade - had a bandana on, but didn't cover his prong, and he got all sorts of attention! I haven't found people to mention the prong at all. More people pay attention to the ears, the red coloring, and the friendly personality

Get pics if you can! Good luck!

Caelestis · 08-14-2008, 09:43 AM

This is my opinion only, but I think prong collars are horrific things and I'd never used one on my dogs. There are other ways to control your dog through proper training. I've had several large breeds, agressive males (GSD and Boxers) etc...and never had the need for a prong collar. I've had one in my house, bought on the advice of a trainer, but never did use it for training and tossed it out.

They look terrible, and yes I kow they look worse than they are but that's my point...they look "mean" and they look like the dog needs barbaric measures to get it to behave...NOT the idea I want to leave in the publics mind about this breed. No one should see such a "mean" looking device on the neck of a Doberman and walk away thinking the breed is so uncontrollable that they need such draconian meansures to control the dogs. Nor do I think they need to look "meaner" then they already do.

I'm sure there are many who will disagree...but the first thought in my head when I see those things is "Oh my god that looks nasty" and my next thought is to wonder why the person cannot train the dog properly to heel on a regular choke or flat collar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jatango

Wonder and I have been nominated to represent dobermans at the Meet the Breed event at the county fair! (About the only time I say, "Darn those ears!") Any ideas on what material to bring, if any? Should I cover his prong or advocate its use? I think the GSD lady will have hers in prongs, but you can't see 'em!

Hubby is doing deployment training remotely, so it's just W and me. He's excited because we're doing the bath-nails-teeth-vaseline routine and that ALWAYS means new people. Should I get him a cute bandana? T-Shirt? Or show everyone how WONDER-full (

) an au natural doberbutt can be?

jatango · 08-14-2008, 10:07 AM

Wonder IS trained on a flat collar, but I never trust a dog to be 100% reliable. W weighs about as much as I do, and I think it looks a lot worse if he gets a wild hair up his butt and decides to dart after a 4H bunny than it does to have him under control just in case.

I also put a lot of stock in that german study about trachea damage. I would never want to rely on a thin piece of metal pushing on my guy's trachea in case he decides to be a dog and not a robot. He is trained with a nice heel, but he is essentially 15 in human years, and any of you know what that is like. Was your brain always where it should have been?

It may sound like I'm making excuses for W, and maybe I am, but IMO 18 months is too young to expect a perfect heel all the time.

Now, in Missouri, there is also a conceal and carry law in regards to guns. There ARE guns allowed at the fair. The last thing I want to happen is someone to think my dog isn't under control because of some freak circumstance, get scared, and shoot him. It wouldn't be the first time in this state, either.

I usually walk W on a british rope lead, but I want a little more control in this situation. I'm not offended, but I want to give the other side of the prong story too. I respect your opinion and admire what you do with your dogs, I'm just not that good of a trainer yet. I would rather a newbie like me use a tool if they need it, than put themselves and possibly their dog in danger. Come on, show of hands, how many people have almost been pulled off their feet by a strong dog?

Caelestis · 08-14-2008, 10:18 AM

If used correctly a standard choke shouldn't do any damage, it's the people who don't know what they are doing that let the dog drag them around and never let the choke release that are a problem.

I know prongs are used by many people, I know they look worse than they may feel (to a point, I've also seen dogs scream in agony when they are used) but I'm MOST concered that they look so nasty and make the dog look mean. You're going to a public breed display. What your dog looks like and how he behaves can make or break this breed for many people. Not everyone that passes by and sees your dog will have an opportunity to stop and listen to you tell them a prong just looks cruel and is only a training tool. Many people will simply pass by, see the nasty looking device and think "Yup, I always knew Dobermans were vicious, look what they have to put on it's neck just to have it out on public".

Quote:

Originally Posted by jatango

Wonder IS trained on a flat collar, but I never trust a dog to be 100% reliable. W weighs about as much as I do, and I think it looks a lot worse if he gets a wild hair up his butt and decides to dart after a 4H bunny than it does to have him under control just in case.

I also put a lot of stock in that german study about trachea damage. I would never want to rely on a thin piece of metal pushing on my guy's trachea in case he decides to be a dog and not a robot. He is trained with a nice heel, but he is essentially 15 in human years, and any of you know what that is like. Was your brain always where it should have been?

It may sound like I'm making excuses for W, and maybe I am, but IMO 18 months is too young to expect a perfect heel all the time.

Now, in Missouri, there is also a conceal and carry law in regards to guns. There ARE guns allowed at the fair. The last thing I want to happen is someone to think my dog isn't under control because of some freak circumstance, get scared, and shoot him. It wouldn't be the first time in this state, either.

I usually walk W on a british rope lead, but I want a little more control in this situation. I'm not offended, but I want to give the other side of the prong story too. I respect your opinion and admire what you do with your dogs, I'm just not that good of a trainer yet. I would rather a newbie like me use a tool if they need it, than put themselves and possibly their dog in danger. Come on, show of hands, how many people have almost been pulled off their feet by a strong dog?

**TracyJo** · 08-14-2008, 10:21 AM

Many will argue that a prong is much more humane (if used properly) than a choke chain.

I was VERY surprised when I visited an obedience club earlier this week that does not advocate using chokes at all and actually reccomends using prong collars. I did not get the impression this club was at all barbaric - I've never seen so many treats handed out to dogs in training or heard so much praise.

I'll be honest, I thought they were barbaric and it took a lot of thought and research before I bought one. Now? Now, I think it's the best thing in the world.

Chi was trained using a combination of collars and her harness - depending what we were working on. I seldom use her prong for "training" I do use it primarily when we walk, go for runs or bike rides. She's a great dog who listens 99.9% of the time but the fact remains that she is not overly fond of children on bikes, barking dogs or anything that darts out in front of us (rabbits, squirrels, cats). If she has on her flat collar, harness or even a choke she can and will pull away from me - not so with the prong. The prong prevents her from pulling away from me saving the whatever evil threat she wants to chase, keeps her safe and my shoulder in socket.

I think it's rude to assume that just because someone chooses to use a prong they can't properly train a dog. Even the best trained dogs can and will forget their training in the right/wrong circumstances.

I think that the prong is a lot like the Dobe - it has a bad reputation, if used improperly it could be harmful but with the right trainer can be wonderful.

So, my vote, Jatango is to have Wonder on his prong - like you said, you want to have complete control AND you can use this also as an opportunity to educate people on how to properly fit and use it...

jatango · 08-14-2008, 10:32 AM

Alright, well how about I bring his prong and his choke. If he doesn't need the prong, I won't use it. I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I also stand by my last post.

Caelestis · 08-14-2008, 10:34 AM

Any training tool, if not used properly, can cause harm, it's lack of skill in the trainer more than the tool. That said MANY pet people who have hard to control dogs (because they are too lazy to get off their butts and get to training classes generally) think a prong is the solution and all they need, they use it to replace training the dog. Yes, those of us who train and trial our dogs are more diligent and take the time to learn to use the tools available to us; however, this OP asked about a meet the breed event with the general public, and wearing a prong or covering it. I still think that most people, as you admitted yourself, will look at the prong and think it looks, as you stated, barbaric, and they will think it must be necessary on a Dobe. We have enough "vicious, aggressive dog" sterotypes out there, we don't need more being perpetuated and I (my opinion only) think the average joe blow seeing a prong on a Dobe sends a bad message.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TracyJo

Many will argue that a prong is much more humane (if used properly) than a choke chain.

I was VERY surprised when I visited an obedience club earlier this week that does not advocate using chokes at all and actually reccomends using prong collars. I did not get the impression this club was at all barbaric - I've never seen so many treats handed out to dogs in training or heard so much praise.

I'll be honest, I thought they were barbaric and it took a lot of thought and research before I bought one. Now? Now, I think it's the best thing in the world.

Chi was trained using a combination of collars and her harness - depending what we were working on. I seldom use her prong for "training" I do use it primarily when we walk, go for runs or bike rides. She's a great dog who listens 99.9% of the time but the fact remains that she is not overly fond of children on bikes, barking dogs or anything that darts out in front of us (rabbits, squirrels, cats). If she has on her flat collar, harness or even a choke she can and will pull away from me - not so with the prong. The prong prevents her from pulling away from me saving the whatever evil threat she wants to chase, keeps her safe and my shoulder in socket.

I think it's rude to assume that just because someone chooses to use a prong they can't properly train a dog. Even the best trained dogs can and will forget their training in the right/wrong circumstances.

I think that the prong is a lot like the Dobe - it has a bad reputation, if used improperly it could be harmful but with the right trainer can be wonderful.

So, my vote, Jatango is to have Wonder on his prong - like you said, you want to have complete control AND you can use this also as an opportunity to educate people on how to properly fit and use it...

jatango · 08-14-2008, 10:38 AM

Thanks, TracyJo. I can't seem to find the thanks button!