Alpha male - who protects who? - Page 2

**BlackandTans** · 06-30-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by link80reid

He is there as a last resort, and as an early warning alert. Sound wakes doberman, doberman wakes master, master wakes HK usp...

LOL!!

I love it!!

NoBite · 06-30-2008, 06:53 PM

Okay, this may have absolutely NO relevance, but it seems an interesting similarity to me.

In horse herds there is a pecking order. Any horse beneath the rank of another horse will readily fight an intruder or perceived threat of the higher ranking horse. This happens all the time on trail rides. Folks that don't understand this are surprised when their (usually) submissive horse kicks out at a horse coming too close to that horse's alpha.

It seems logical that the same behavior would be natural for other species as well.

NoBite · 06-30-2008, 06:54 PM

shadeslane · 06-30-2008, 07:03 PM

All my male has ever had to do is growl. He stays at a heel, but <somehow> sneaks one foot in front of me. He will hold his position, give a low growl, and wait for me to tell him what to do. I have no doubt if ever further threatened, he'd take them out, but fortunately, in 10 years the growl has always been more than enough to convince folks/other dogs to move along. To me, the key is very thorough obedience training - and a nearby shotgun doesn't hurt, either.

**RedFawnRising** · 07-01-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berkdogg

I understand the folks thinking about getting out the glock and firing away at the intruder. You probably can handle yourself and maybe even have formal handgun training. But while you are out fishing, is your wife, kid, or family member that good with a gun. Would you want them to stand between the intruder and the dog with a gun probably shaking in their hand?...

Ahem. Just pointing out, I am a girl, and kinda a girly-girl.

I also have formal handgun training and am actually a darn sight better shot than most of the fellas around here.

And while I'd never talk cavalierly of taking another human's life, if the situation arose, I'd have no qualms, even if I might need counseling later!

So, just sayin, don't assume all womenfolk would be standing there shaking in their boots

Carry on!

berkdogg · 07-01-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFawnRising

Ahem. Just pointing out, I am a girl, and kinda a girly-girl.

I also have formal handgun training and am actually a darn sight better shot than most of the fellas around here.

And while I'd never talk cavalierly of taking another human's life, if the situation arose, I'd have no qualms, even if I might need counseling later!

So, just sayin, don't assume all womenfolk would be standing there shaking in their boots

Carry on!

Generally speaking, most womenfolk cannot handle themselves in real life situation. It would probably be better if the dog would help out some even if it could.

A while back here in Ga, a woman was kidnapped, raped, and killed on a hiking trail along with her dog (a border collie or something) with a stranger she was hiking with. I think she would still be alive today if she had a doberman or some other dog willing to do something for his owner. The police found the dog perfectly fine romping about in the woods unscathed after the incident. The news is filled with cases like this. It is good you sought the knowledge to protect yourself.

**Doberdog** · 07-01-2008, 06:36 PM

interesting thread. I learned something. Me and my honey are talking about getting a gun. I will start a diffent thread in general off topic chat.

Crow · 07-02-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

I'm confused, if we humans are supposed to be the 'alpha male', how come when a threat appears the dobe will (usu) take on the threat 1st? Shouldn't it be us being the alpha male?

I see where you're coming from but it doesn't really work that way. A dog with a weak handler is more likely to be either fearful or fear-aggressive in the face of a perceived threat, rather than assertive. If you've ever seen a fear-aggressive dog, you'll immediately notice how different that is to confident assertion. Fear-aggressive dogs overreact to perceived threats - they respond in a hysterical, uncontrolled way. There are various reasons why dogs can be fear-aggressive but a common one is because they have no faith in their handler and lack confidence as a result.

Confident, assertive dogs tend to be confident and assertive precisely because they have Alpha handlers. They respond calmly to perceived threats - checking them out, standing their ground, thinking, assessing the situation, and remaining receptive to the handler's cues and commands. The handler of course then must respond in some way to the situation and direct the dog as to what happens next. So what happens next might be the handler telling the dog to stand down, the guy with the lump hammer has just come to fix the fence. Or it might be reaching for that gun ...

**RedFawnRising** · 07-02-2008, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berkdogg

Generally speaking, most womenfolk cannot handle themselves in real life situation...

Are you for real?

I'm sorry, but my mouth is just hanging open.

Geez, I really hope you're wrong. I gotta say, the chicks I hang out with would not be the ideal target for a predator to choose.

We may paint our nails and wear sandals and glittery toe rings, but I gotta tell you, I pity the fella who tries me or one of my friends.

Somebody is gonna come out of it hurt the worst and it ain't gonna be me, dog or gun present or not.

In fact, a gun would be my very last resort in a self defense scenario, and the vast majority of the time, a gun would be a moot point. In the fairly rare event you'd be attacked in your own home, who is always walking around with a gun within hand's reach, locked and loaded 24/7.

Not to hijack too much more, but every woman needs to take martial arts based self defense and drill, drill, drill those techniques until it's pure muscle memory.

Like, I said, some criminal tries me and he's gonna get an azz kickin for his trouble.

And then I'll gripe about how I broke a nail!

**Megs** · 07-02-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFawnRising

Are you for real?

I'm sorry, but my mouth is just hanging open.

Geez, I really hope you're wrong. I gotta say, the chicks I hang out with would not be the ideal target for a predator to choose.

We may paint our nails and wear sandals and glittery toe rings, but I gotta tell you, I pity the fella who tries me or one of my friends.

Somebody is gonna come out of it hurt the worst and it ain't gonna be me, dog or gun present or not.

In fact, a gun would be my very last resort in a self defense scenario, and the vast majority of the time, a gun would be a moot point. In the fairly rare event you'd be attacked in your own home, who is always walking around with a gun within hand's reach, locked and loaded 24/7.

Not to hijack too much more, but every woman needs to take martial arts based self defense and drill, drill, drill those techniques until it's pure muscle memory.

Like, I said, some criminal tries me and he's gonna get an azz kickin for his trouble.

And then I'll gripe about how I broke a nail!

A friend of mine was walking to work a while back when 2 dudes walked by her and one grabbed her purse. She spun around SO FAST and clocked the guy right in the jaw. So hard she hurt her hand. But she hurt his face too. The guy pulled on it so hard that he broke the strap. The 2 guys are now pretty much in shock when she asks WTF was he doing? His buddy's response: "Uhhh, he was just trying to say Hi...." Her response, "You don't say Hi by grabbing somebody's purse!"

I know I'm still off topic, but on the whole alpha male thing... did you know there's a species of fish where there is one, very colourful alpha male, one less colourful beta female and a whole bunch of "genderless" others? If something should happen to the alpha male, the beta female changes genders, becomes more colourful, and assumes the role of alpha male. Then the most mature "genderless" fish assumes her previous role as beta female. I'm pretty sure they can revert back also, from alpha male to beta female (say if a new alpha male happens to come along - i.e: gene flow from a different school), and the beta female can revert back to genderless. Isn't that fascinating?! I learned this (and a lot of other neat stuff) in ecology.