MIA

Pet Doberman kills Brooklyn infant

BBC NEWS | England | West Midlands | Girl, three, mauled by family dog

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Toddler mauled by doberman

I don't want to bother searching more but it's just to point out to those who feel the breed is perfect while it's not, no breed is, our breed was bred to protect for pete's sake!!!! We as owners, breeders rescuers NEED to be responsible and understand what our dogs are.

Dobermans are already being banned, we need to all band together to protect ALL breeds not just our own.

dobeguy

I find it funny when Doberman owners can be so ignorant of other breeds, support BSL etc... It is only a matter of time before people start banning Dobermans, Rottweilers, and anything that weighs more than 20 pounds that isn't a Lab or Golden.

__________________
""Life itself is only a vision. A dream. Nothing exists, save an empty space and you. And you are but a thought."

kidkree1

Thats just sad but you have to remember that any dog can hurt someone it all depends on how you raze them.

eminart

My aunt was mauled by an afghan hound. I was bitten by a chihuahua once. A redbone hound once repeatedly tried to bite my toddler sister while my mom held her out of reach.

Any breed of dog can have bad apples.

DLS

I have been 'attacked' by a duck, two geese, one rabbit, a garter snake, 50 million mosquitos, quite a few Banti Hens, a Pheasant or two, bit by a Pekingese, and threatened by a couple of humans. SO, should we wipe em all out?

__________________

http://www.doberman911.org/
http://www.doberman911.org/seniors/

Nothing should be done in haste but gripping a flea.

Lexus

Actually I'm all for wiping out mosquitos now that you mention it :-)

__________________

zeus and me

hmmm the only dog who ever thought he would attack me was a black lab mix. evil critter! my wheel chair bound neighbor was loading into her van when the lab went for her! I was at my door with my dobe.I went out and left my dobe in. I chalanged the lab and was able to keep eye contact and slowly get him to move backwards.but the moment I glanced twords my dobe (wishing I could open the door) that darn lab charged me again! I stood my ground and advanced again. finally its owner came out. that was one mean lab.

Dobesanddragons

This was taken from an old post of mine on the subject:
Stories like this always make me wonder - they do always leave parts of the story out, that is what makes good news right?
No mixed feelings here.
These things make me so sad.

No mixed feelings here about banning any breed, Pits, Rotts, Dobes, etc. Once they ban one, it will lead to another, make no mistake. Don't think you are safe if you own a Dobe.

Breed bans won't work. Here are some reasons I think that way.

First of all, the type of people they are targeting with breed bans don't give a darn about the law anyway, so that pretty much doesn't reach their targets. So the only people the law effects are those that already obey the law in the first place. Those people are already responsible owners to begin with, real responsible owners, not the kind that think they are but let their dogs run off leash all over the neighborhood, don’t get their pets spayed or neutered, think owning an aggressive dog is cool, and so forth.

Second, most people don't know what a Pit Bull is to begin with, some have called my Dobes, Pits, my in-laws Lab has been called a Pit. The general public has a hard enough time telling purebred dogs apart that fit their standards perfectly, and many times can't do a good job of knowing the differences between those as they prove time and time again. Since many Pits aren't registered, who is to be the ultimate person to decide what is and isn't. I see many problems with this; even A/C officers don't know their breeds as well as they should. Here, take this test: Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull
So how can we know that reported dog bites are really from Pits? Many dog bites go untreated and unreported if they are from other breeds. The statistics are skewed to begin with when it comes to the Pit Bull breed.

Third, when the government bans stuff like this, for instance, certain types of drugs, or criminals owning guns, decrees that people not kill each other, does that ever really work? No. The US is still a very dangerous place to live (some parts worse than others of course) despite all the laws. The solution isn’t to make more laws or do more banning, this is very ineffective. Dog fighting is against the law but it still goes on all the time. Dog abuse is illegal yet is happens every day. More laws are not the answer to all problems.

Fourth, what about those that own Pits and Rotts that are well bred and very stable, have good temperaments, and they are much loved family pets? Does that mean it is okay for animal control to get personal documents (that show ownership & care) such as vet records, vaccination records, and microchip information, perhaps training club records, a dog show catalog, or SPCA records where you adopted your dog and saved a life and then investigate every dog owner in their county and go seize the dogs to take them to the shelter to put them to sleep since one day they became "illegal"? This just makes me sick. To even imagine one day Dobermans being illegal, the county coming knocking on my door to take my pampered trained, well socialized, happy healthy canine good citizens away while they are sleeping at home on the couch, this has happened to some and my heart goes out to them. It is NOT okay.

Fifth, if they really do successfully pass a breed ban, bad owners will either back yard breed underground (and not even have the chance to socialize them, show them, walk them, or have access to adequate vet care for fear they will be taken away) or they will move onto to another powerful breed that is for the moment okay and do whatever they wish with that breed. Every dog breed, even the laid back Goldens and Labs are capable of aggression. Maybe they will get creative and make mixes that no longer look like Pits but are aggressive? What next, ban them too? And the good owners will have to give up their pets quickly to move them out of there for fear they will be killed, or move themselves from their established lives, or keep their dogs inside without chances to take car rides, go to show, get adequate vet care, go on walks, etc.

Sixth, in a country filled with dogs, that loves their dogs, dogs dogs everywhere on average there are 12 deaths a year according to Dog-Bite-Related Fatalities -- United States, 1995-1996. Fatalities are highly unusual period.

You would think that number would be much higher compared to the number of dogs America owns if they are sooooo dangerous. Parents kill their very own children more than dogs kill children each year. Humans murder each other way more and injure each other way more than dogs even get close to doing. More children die in cars than in any other way, should we ban cars? Probably so. We should also ban swimming, I believe around 500 children per year die while swimming. So take out that pool in your backyard, the city pools should be closed, no more lake or river trips, it is a dangerous activity, as a large amount of adults die per year in water too. 800 people die per year riding their bicycles, I know personally my grandpa used to ride cross country, was wearing a helmet when he crashed but still suffered massive head trauma (the helmet broke). We should really do away with bicycles, as they are dangerous. And on average 73 people die from lighting strikes each year. You have a much higher percentage of dying from being struck by lightening than getting killed by a dog. I think you get the point….


Seventh, why not start to crack down on the laws that are already on the books. You know, IMPORTANT stuff such as not allowing animal abuse and being strict about that, huge fines for loose dogs, enforcing leash laws, not allowing dogs to live tied to a chain, and the other things that lead up to bites. How about forcing owners not be so negligent? How about having dog education classes in schools so kids can learn what is okay and not okay and learn to read dogs better? And how about parents teaching their children not to go up to strange dogs without asking first? I read somewhere 50% of dog bites occur on the owners property. There is a bigger problem than just breed! Ownership really plays a big part. Many people can’t read dog behavior period. If they could, then many bites could be avoided, as dogs send clear signs and messages. It always amazes me that in a country so full of dogs people are so clueless about them or make excuses for their bad behaviors, chose to ignore those bad behaviors, or encourage aggressive behavior (in little dogs many think it is cute).

I have met many lovely Pits and Rotts at my training club and in life in general. Pits were never intended to be human aggressive. I understand that a few dogs of all breeds will have issues in their head that are beyond human control due to breeding and individual temperament and that is a shame and makes me very upset to hear about (this is a reason why I only support responsible breeding not BYB’ing) but that is not the norm fortunately for us humans. Many humans have no idea the right way to care for dogs but on the whole if you look at the sheer number dogs are very adaptable and not aggressive.

Eighth, first comes Pits and Rotts, you know what is next, Akitas, Chows, Dobes. I have seen Boxers and Danes on breed bans lists. Even GSD's. For while Dobes were America's most hated. It changes and shifts breeds. They can't ban them all, or can they? This is not acceptable. I grew up with Dobermans, they are the best breed in the world to me, I would die inside if the government told me I could not longer own them due to the outliers (in statistics this means those that do not at at all fit in the normal standard curve). Out of all the Dobes in the country rarely is there a problem of someone dying from them. More Dobermans gain their CH. or work as therapy and service dogs bringing joy to others than kill people.

Ninth, since when can you simply look at a person or dog on the outside from far away and automatically know what they are like? I hate this type of stereotyping, like all human or dog males are this way, all human or canine females are that way, all red dogs act this, all red heads act this way, black dogs act this, blue eyed people are this, it is so silly. I understand humans minds work this way, as we need everything to fit in our frame of reference, we don’t like not knowing.
However, these statements are not based on fact, they are based on blanket bias stereotyping, which doesn't leave any room for truth, life is not just black or white, one way or the other way, there is a lot of grey area. Not everything or everyone fits on neatly into one narrow minded box. Blanket stereotyping has been a source of oppression for many throughout history in the US. Yes, we may be working with dogs here but the basic premise is still the same.

Does that make any sense? The end result is breed banning is not the answer for even more reasons than I can list. We can restrict ownership, I feel like that is a more valid solution.

__________________

It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities ~JK Rowling
Life's challenges are not suppose to paralyze you, they are suppose to help you discover who you are ~Bernice Reagon

dobeguy

Very well said D&D.

__________________
""Life itself is only a vision. A dream. Nothing exists, save an empty space and you. And you are but a thought."

bren

Bravo, Bravo Must have taken you ages to find all of them - Perhaps I could spend a little time searching for dog attacks by non threatening dogs??? No - I can't be arsed. But here's a little list of dogs that have bitten me in the past

Golden Retriever
Golden Labrador
Black Labrador
Jack Russel x several
Mothers Yorkshire terrier
Rottweiler
Cairn terrier sky terrier cross
Westie


Notice only one of them are what would be considered dangerous dogs. We all acknowledge that Dobes are capable of immense damage but so are all of the dogs listed above, and even after being bitten by them all I don't have a hang up on any of them - except perhaps rotts. It's simple really, exercise caution around ALL dogs, they all have teeth and will use them. That said you'll never get me or thousands of other Dobe owners to tar our dogs with the same brush as a pitbulls and the like. And before you start preaching about me being ignorant stfu, my dobe hasn't even growled in the 14 months I've owned him and has not once retaliated when attaked by other dogs, he prefers to put space between him and them and move on. Yes I know he COULD bite but of most the dogs I have come accross he is the least likely to. For example in the last 2 days alone we have encountered The Cairn Terrier that went for him yesterday morning would have bitten me or him given the chance, as with the Akita we happened accross last night, and the little Jack russell from down the road that is notorious for biting people and their dogs that venture too close, the Rott that tugged at it's owners lead this morning in a vain attempt to grab Lexx by the flank didn't look too friendly either, the guy in the field with the staffy mix who always avoinds other dogs and people when theyre out because he can't be trusted not to bite oh and the golden retriever from 2 doors down that will bite anybody and anything cos it's so bloody scared of everything - Each and everyone of these dogs are more likely to attack than my Dobe who wanders this earth without a care in the world. What he is capable of is recognised, the chances of us seeing it compared to plenty of other dogs are limited.

Perhaps this link will help people to understand why a dog might bite a little more -Anatomy of a Dog Attack not saying it's gospel but it's not far off the mark and guess what???the dog involved is a beautiful playful little Labrador!!!

__________________

MIA

Yes any dog can bite whoohoo you are a genius. Dogs were also bred for different reasons and have breed traits. Denying those traits only make for a dangerous ignorant situation which you can choose to live in. You dog is a star I am sure he will never do anything wrong in his life, I am sure his farts smell of roses too. Bren dogs are dogs first including pits, they are all CANINES, so yes your little perfect Dobe is the same as a pit, rott, poodle, whatever, get over it. IT'S A DOG.

__________________
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
www.nopuppymillscanada.ca

RedFawnRising

*scratching head*

Um, kinda confused as to exactly what point you are trying to make, and what you hope to accomplish, MIA?

Of course all canids can and may bite. Of course there are breed traits that should be recognized and that breed's needs met by their owners and handlers.

Many people should not have pets, period, imo, especially high-energy breeds whose intelligence is arguably higher than that of their human handlers.

Are Dobermans perfect?

Hmm, they come pretty darn close for me. For someone else, it might be a Chinese Crested or a Cavalier King Charles.

But, if you're trying to argue that Dobes are more likely to attack than many other breeds...uh, look up US Health Dept stats on dog bite incidents.

__________________

MIA

You would have to go and read Bren's rants against pits and his ignorant statements against the breed.

The more I think about Bren and his ignorance I actually just feel sorry for him.

__________________
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
www.nopuppymillscanada.ca

Crow

Unfortunately we are living in a period where people are increasingly risk-averse, to an idiotic degree. It's not just with dogs: it's every damn thing. I have a friend who runs a riding school here in the UK and her insurance has shot through the roof in recent years because people these days seem not to accept that if you choose to go horse-riding then you must accept a small risk.

But the biggest killer and maimer of otherwise healthy people in the UK is car accidents and people still drive like maniacs so ... go figure!

We're developing cowardly societies in the Western world.

__________________
Charlie, gone but always by my side

Romo

It all started when a judge ruled in favor of some idiot that spilled his hot McDonald's coffee on himself and blamed McDonalds for not telling him it was hot.

*wheh...glad I finally got that off my chest* lol

__________________

RedFawnRising

Ah, MIA, thanks for 'splaining me up!

I apparently stepped into the middle of something and got it all over my shoes.

I would go look up Bren's posts, but, to use Bren's term, I can't be arsed.

I live in the South--I get enough ignorance about dog problems being dog problems when they are actually people problems.

__________________

Blitzkreig

Im all for wiping out the Mosquitos



Just realized i totally copied Lexus's post

bren

I think you are a little unstable Mia, perhaps you should learn to read???? In every post I have acknowledged what a dobe can do I just do not place them in the same league as other dogs when it comes the the chances of them biting. As for my rants on pits? There is factual evidence from virtually any country in the world which shows that they are more likely to cause serious injury through biting than most other dogs. Also, argue if you will but a dobe is nowhere near as likely to bite as your average mutt on the street.



"Dogs were also bred for different reasons and have breed traits. Denying those traits only make for a dangerous ignorant situation which you can choose to live in. "

I don't deny anything, the trait of a protection dog is to be VERY stable in all situations and only attack when a threat is posed upon itself or it's handler. So erm... I guess that means that unless I or him are being attacked then his inbred traits mean that he will be a very stable dog not likely to cause harm to anyone or anything???

As far as my boy is concerned yes I have a lot of trust in him - the fact that he will turn and walk away from another dog which wishes to cause him harm rather than engage in conflict assures me that he is of a more stable temperament than most dogs I come accross.

I spent every waking hour socialising him as a puppy putting him through every situation I could think of where people and other dogs were available. A rule of thumb is to make sure that your puppy has met at least 50 people by the time it is 4 months old or something like that - Mine had met hundreds in loads of different situations, been on trains, in the busiest train station in the west midlands, walked through busy market places when he wasn't even knee high, stood next to lorries while they started and pissed himself at the time. He was placed amongst a myriad of other dogs from the day I bought him home from other pups to adults including russels to rotts and ridgebacks. In short I made sure that he went through every conceivable situation I could think of and still do and what I have acheived from that is a very stable dog who is afraid of little, and knows how to behave in virtually every situation he is placed in, fighting is the last thing on his mind and play is what he lives for. But yes as I have acknowledged in EVERY post previous he is still capable of serious damage. Capable being the apt word. I have done all I can to ensure this is the last thing on his mind and am confident that out of every dog we meet each day whilst walking that he is the least likely to cause any conflict - that is fact. Perhaps I can get a list of email address' from the owners of each dog that tries to get to me and Lexx over the next few days and you can write to them explaining that their beloved pets are demons - I would expect a couple of russels, a cairn terrier, a golden retriever and a few other lovely nice little dogs to be on the list - Oh and if my Lexx even thinks about lunging for another dog with the intention of biting I'll kick his head in just for you!

__________________

delawareDobe

I wonder what would cause that Doberman in NY to attack that baby.....

Primo

There are Doberman owners here who support BSL? I haven't been here long but that is ABSOLUTELY hilarious. How ignorant one truly must be to own a dominant breed and support BSL. There was a point in time when the Doberman was stereotyped just like the Pit Bull/Amstaff and it certainly wasn't the Breeds fault. Anyone that supports BSL is as ignroant as they come. If you want to crack down on dog related fatalities and attacks, crack down on the ignroant owners of the world as well as the thugs and gang bangers. BSL is a crock of sh.it and I'm legitimately shocked that anyone on this board would support BSL.

Zoeberry

I just had an incident with my neighbor that reminded me how much we need to keep on our guard especially with a breed that is still regarded by some as dangerous.

I've had Copper, a 3 1/2 year old fawn male, since late April. He is totally laid back and a big marshmallow....normally. My neighbor (who is good buddies with my husband) came over to our fenced in area saying copper's name but he had a cordless drill in his hand that he thought was funny to point and run it at him. Well Copper got very upset about that and when the neighbor went to put his hand over the fence and pet him, I had a bad feeling and told him "no, wait!" Copper was in a defensive mode. Our neighbor put the drill down and came in quietly and Copper was fine. He turned back into his normal wiggle butt self. I'll never say my dog won't bite because one never knows. He's a protector and he felt there was a threat.

I did have a female that I was near positive would never bite anyone but who knows in the right situation (?)

I think a lot of people on here are smart enough to recognize this but I think it is a good reminder.

__________________
Brenda and Copper