CoDobe

We're watching a friend's 2 year, un-neutered male German Sheperd (Duke) through Wednesday night. We've had him now for a little over 5 days and he and Nissa get along great BUT,

Duke always seems to be chasing and jumping all over Nissa to the point that I could tell she was getting worn out and gives me that look like "Mom, please help - I don't want to get angry with him but I'm at my breaking point". So, I'll put Duke back in his kennel for a breather about 20-30 minutes, and the second that I take him out, he's back at it again. This has been going on for the last 5 days and it's taking a toll on Nissa, my husband and I. Yesterday, we were in the back yard and they were going at it again and I looked up and saw Nissa just jumping all over Duke (who was retreating)- no growls or hair-raising, but it caused enough concern that I split them up.

So, last night, Duke finally got the picture that he was not to bother Nissa when she gives him her "signals", and he stops. So, he's laying down on the floor, being a good boy, and Nissa comes up to him, straddles him so her private area (sorry, I don't know what the correct term is) is now over his head. What is this about?

It's also worth mentioning that Nissa appears to be submissive to both our Min Pin (female) and Duke (m). Is her behavior linked to her submissive personality or is there something else going on? Should I be concerned?

My husband tells me I am humanizing her, but I don't really know what to think.

Thoughts/advice? What am I doing wrong or right?

Thanks!

DLS

They seem to be getting along just fine, I think your Nissa is a little flirt. LOL. They are just being dogs. Let them play.

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CoDobe

I started calling Nissa my little hussy. Tee Hee....

Sometimes we get overwhelmed by the Ceaser Milan's of the world, and I forget dogs will be dogs....

sebsyd

I agree. I try never to interfere unless there is blood shed (or close to it). They will work it out. Nissa got her point across to him. Now I think she is making an attempt to assert herself (or just to flirt lol). She is just not the alpha dog with your other two and she accepts that.

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CoDobe

Sebsyd, Good point - I'm so new at this that I get so nervous when I see the dogs rough-housing and there's growling and teeth showing. How do you "know" when it's time to interfere?

voodoolizard

i would let them play and like you have been doin seperate when she is fed up, but they have to learn, my 2 play ruff, zeus always started it and missy was not always keen, now the last few days, she has been wrestling him,its all quite gentle, and very cute, but today she started humping him ??? they always amaze me LOL

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Zeus,Missy & Clare

BlackandTans

Yah my two are crazy as well... My boy (who is also named Duke) plays SUPER rough with my girl to a point that I start feeling REALLY bad for her!! But if he gets completely out of line I have seen her put him in his place and he will back off. You can usually tell really rough play to where they are just full out pissed off at eachother with hackels raised etc... I also do not interfer unless I see that it is not going to stop. I have only had to do this one time cause my girl acutally bit my boys face pretty bad to where he was bleeding. I should say that that ended it before I could actually break them up and they have been fine since then. Or I will just say "enough" or "calm down" and they usually do a little. I think that your two are just figuring out how to behave around one another. Sometimes I still let my girl out by herself so she can actually have a chance to run around and not get tackled by my Duke! AHH!!

CoDobe

Well, the good news is that we're only dog-sitting through Wednesday night, so it's not like we can't manage it. I just feel so bad for my girl - she's such a sweet dog (i'm sure I wrote person first!) that when Duke starts charging after her in the back yard, all I want to do is protect her. But you're right, they will have to figure it out for themselvs and this is not the last time they'll be around each other. (they have play dates all the time) The only bad thing is that I noticed yesterday that Nissa has a slight limp to her front leg. We'll watch it for a few days, and I'm just hoping it's a sprain. She's still running, walking and jumping so I don't think it's anything serious.

Poor lil' Nissa is just getting beat up on, but she's a toughie when she needs to be. She comes in from outside and is just exhausted and covered in doggie slobber.

Thanks everybody for your great advice!

BlackandTans

Yep I love it when I go to pet my girl Mia after she has been getting trampled basically by Duke and the whole back of her neck is slobbery!! AHHH!! I feel the same way where I sometimes want to try and protect her from my other, but she needs to tell him off most of the time herself!!

Yah just watch her paw and if she is pretty much acting normal I would not worry too much about it. Probably just sprained like you said or bumped funny...

voodoolizard

keep an eye on the limp, but at her age it could be pano..
Panosteitis, or Pano as it is commonly called, is a disease which affects the long bones in growing young dogs, mostly of the larger breeds, but occasionally is seen in some smaller breeds as well. German Shepherds are one of the breeds who are often presented with lameness and limb pain between 5 and 18 months of age, and many veterinarians diagnose Pano as it's cause.

The first signs of Pano are often a slight lameness in one leg, progressing to a severe limp and possibly non-use of the affected leg. It may last for days to weeks, and may seem to resolve then recur in the same leg, or another one. Some dogs can exhibit lameness in more than one, or even all legs at the same time. Often Pano shows up in a foreleg first. Bouts of lameness can come and go, seemingly for months. Some dogs suffer from Pano off and on until they are nearing 2 years of age or even beyond. I believe a case has been documented in a 5 year old dog, but that is unusual. Most cases start near the end of rapid growth, about 5 to 6 months of age, and are cleared up by 12 to 18 months of age. Males seem to be more affected than females, but both sexes can exhibit signs.

Radiographic signs, those seen on an x-ray, can be elusive when diagnosing Pano. The bones most affected are the radius and ulna (the foreleg), the humerus (upper arm), the femur (thigh) and the tibia (lower rear leg). Pano is an inflammation of the bone itself, the cortex (outer shell) becomes less distinct and foggy, and the interior of the bone seems to increase in density. Pano lesions are not always seen on an X-ray even though the dog may be showing clinical signs of lameness and pain.

No definitive reason is really known for the cause of Pano. It has been attributed to high protein levels in food, high fat intake, growth spurts, lack of different vitamins or minerals, too much of certain vitamins or minerals, environmental causes, bacterial infections, parasite infections and many other non conclusive reasons. People have reported that high doses of Vitamin C will help to alleviate the onset of Pano, or the symptoms when they occur, and others swear by antibiotic treatments, holistic and natural approaches and even acupuncture and chiropractic treatments. For the most part, Pano will occur and run it's course; it is a self limiting disease and will subside on it's own regardless of treatments. Analgesics can be given, but in a lot of cases the relief from pain is minimal. Some report cessation of symptoms after neutering, which may be an indication of association between stress and hormonal changes, but this is unproved as well. Maintaining good nutrition during bouts of Pano is important, as many dogs who are feeling pain will have a depressed appetite too. Ligaments and muscles are still growing and forming in young dogs. I have found that ligamentation and conditioning can be compromised considerably during the painful stages of Pano due to the lack of exercise. Dogs should be encouraged to exercise lightly between episodes, but hard running and very long walks should be excluded until the Pano is gone for good, and is wise to limit in young dogs even if they are not afflicted with Pano.

X-ray......... Pano lesion is seen in the bone on the left, the radius. The ulna remains unaffected. The lesion is cloudy and more dense than the clear bone, and the cortex is less defined.

In closing, Panosteitis is not a serious disease, however, it is a very painful one for dogs to suffer. A few words of caution should be remembered when diagnosing lameness in young dogs. To be sure of a Pano diagnosis, other bone abnormalities should be looked for and ruled out first. Ununited Anconeal Process (elbow dysplasia) is evident radiographically in puppies at 4 to 6 months of age, and sudden lameness on the front legs is reason enough to x-ray for this problem, and it's an increasing one in German shepherds. Other bone and joint abnormalities in the elbow and shoulder such as Fragmented Cornoid Process (FCP) and other conditions associated with Osteochondrosis Dissicans can be evident and should be ruled out as well. Preliminary x-rays for Canine Hip Dysplasia (CHD) should be done if a dog is limping on a rear leg, or shows weakness on arising, or a tendency to "bunny hop" with both rear legs rather than trot smoothly when moving. Too often lameness and leg favoring are attributed to Pano, when in fact the cause is due to a serious and detrimental disorder. When all else is ruled out, or Pano lesions are actually seen on an x-ray you can feel a bit of comfort knowing your puppy will "grow out of it" and be limp free once again.

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Zeus,Missy & Clare