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Old 01-04-2013, 02:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Pancreatitus

I hate it. Poor Dugan had another flare up at New Years. This one was bad... Fortunately we got to the Vet right away and got meds for him. He is doing better, getting playful again, but seems to know when he needs a break which is good.

Right now he is on an acid reducer (for another week) 40 Mg per day. I'm wondering if anyone has experience high acid before in their dog? We have been told by the vet that this is the cause of his sock eating. The sock absorbs the extra acid in his stomach therein making him feel better for the moment. Any suggestions for this? Looking for something to supplement into his diet rather than medicate, if available.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Poor boy.

so sorry Dugan is dealing with this issue.

you Vet mentioned something very interesting..........." We have been told by the vet that this is the cause of his sock eating. The sock absorbs the extra acid in his stomach therein making him feel better for the moment."

I have always wondered why so may DT members dobes like to eat socks and stuff and quite a few have digestive issues and some even bloat.

what causes excess stomach acid in a dog?

I know my dogs partake in lots of natural fiberous 'things'.....rotton wood, different grasses, goat, duck, deer etc. poop. , some dirt etc.
I have never stopped them from supplementing their diets with natural stuff.

knock on wood...........I have never had dobes with digestive disorders, no sock eating, no intestinal blockages, no bloat, no pancreatitis, no liver or kidney issues. Knock on wood again.

why?


Hugz to Dugan and hope that he feels better soon!
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm glad that your Dobes have all had stomachs of steal! Dugan... not so much. He has a heart of gold, but still needs me to take care of his tummy.

Still looking for any suggestions.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I know a lady that had a min-pin with bad Pancreatitus...Vet can food, never helped either.
- once she switched to the RAW premade dinners as the only food diet, little dog was quickly back to normal again...without flareups
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm confused, is it "high acid" or pancreatitis?


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Old 01-05-2013, 12:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Go to the DogAware site below in my signature. There is some very good information on pancreatitis written by a frequent author of Whole Dog Journal health articles
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:47 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Go to the DogAware site below in my signature. There is some very good information on pancreatitis written by a frequent author of Whole Dog Journal health articles
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The late Pullo was prone to Pancreatitis. His immune system was a mess. He had pepcid 2 times a day. He was also on Prilosec for awhile. I didn't see much difference in the 2. I still had to muzzle him when outside or he would eat grass non-stop.
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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my best buds yorkie has pancreatitis.

he is on one of the Vet recommended foods.

he cannot have anything else or he will have an 'episode'.

knew of someone elses dog (mixed breed) who they gave Tums for excessive stomach acid.

for excess stomach acid you could check into alternative remedies like.......... meadowsweet.slippery elm bark....comfrey root...oats or arrow root...chamomile....add fiber like well soaked psyllium husk powder or pectin............apple cider vinegar......digestive enzymes......fast one day a week with just water and fresh raw veggie juice....avoid cold foods..etc.

Hugz to Dugan
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Excessive stomach acid and pancreatitis are two different things. My first Doberman got pancreatitis from being fed a 3 lb bag of carrots by my dog sitter's (my sister) 4 year old son (my wonderful nephew) while she wasn't looking. After I got her home, she sprayed the back yard with what looked like carrot juice, then the vomiting started. She ended up in the hospital for several days and she was only 18 months old. From then on she stayed on prescription dog food low residue and couldn't have anything else. Her treats were rice cakes, and believe it or not - carrots - limited amounts of course. If I tried to veer from that she would get sick. She went from a dog that got the last bite of whatever I was eating to nothing other than her strict diet. She lived a very full and active life.

At age 11 she had a large fatty tumor removed from her chest area that oozed for several weeks and then thought she was vWD, (I can't remember if she was tested or it was just assumed) but with several pressure dressings and some glue the vet was able to get it to stop. She also had hip dysplasia and the meds she needed for that she had to take an anti-acid as well and this went on until she was almost 14 years old.

She remained active until on St. Patricks day 2004, she heard a noise at the front door of the cabin in the mountains we lived in, in Southern California while I was asleep (I worked nights and slept days). She jumped up and when I became clear headed I saw her with hackles up, teeth snarling, doing that bark/growl/slobber that you only very rarely see when they are ready to eat someone up. Once I got her to calm down, she went down and was unable to get back up, it was the first time I had ever heard her cry out in pain - I knew it was time. Later that night her vet came to the house and put her down as she laid her head in my lap.

Three days later a cop knocked on my door and asked if I knew the guy he had in his car and I didn't. He went on to tell me that the guy and three friends of his we're strung out on Meth and breaking into houses and were caught. Since the area I lived at had a lot of vacation houses they wanted to make sure they knew all the houses that were robbed. The officer then stated that the guy pointed out my house and said they were going to rob mine because they didn't think anyone was home since there wasn't a vehicle parked in front of the house, (I had parked mine next door because my drive had become very muddy and had gotten stuck in it a week prior). When they got to the porch and was getting ready to kick in the door they heard a "huge mean effin dog" and got scared and took off. I asked him if this was on St. Patrick's day and he went to his car and asked the guy and sure enough it was. I told the cop that because of their actions I had to put my dog to sleep and told him the story, he said he was a K-9 officer in training and he would "handle" it. He also said that this group beat up an old guy pretty bad that was home at one of the houses - he said " if only he had a dog like yours!". I still cant celebrate St. Patrick's day, she was my heart dog. But now I know you can have more than one heart dog, but she will always be my first!

Sorry I digressed, I tend to do that. My point being you can have both or one or the other but there isn't any reason why you can't give some sort of acid controller daily, natural or chemical. A strict diet MUST be maintained to prevent another pancreatic episode.


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Old 01-06-2013, 05:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalamitysHuckleberry View Post
Excessive stomach acid and pancreatitis are two different things. My first Doberman got pancreatitis from being fed a 3 lb bag of carrots by my dog sitter's (my sister) 4 year old son (my wonderful nephew) while she wasn't looking. After I got her home, she sprayed the back yard with what looked like carrot juice, then the vomiting started. She ended up in the hospital for several days and she was only 18 months old. From then on she stayed on prescription dog food low residue and couldn't have anything else. Her treats were rice cakes, and believe it or not - carrots - limited amounts of course. If I tried to veer from that she would get sick. She went from a dog that got the last bite of whatever I was eating to nothing other than her strict diet. She lived a very full and active life.

At age 11 she had a large fatty tumor removed from her chest area that oozed for several weeks and then thought she was vWD, (I can't remember if she was tested or it was just assumed) but with several pressure dressings and some glue the vet was able to get it to stop. She also had hip dysplasia and the meds she needed for that she had to take an anti-acid as well and this went on until she was almost 14 years old.

She remained active until on St. Patricks day 2004, she heard a noise at the front door of the cabin in the mountains we lived in, in Southern California while I was asleep (I worked nights and slept days). She jumped up and when I became clear headed I saw her with hackles up, teeth snarling, doing that bark/growl/slobber that you only very rarely see when they are ready to eat someone up. Once I got her to calm down, she went down and was unable to get back up, it was the first time I had ever heard her cry out in pain - I knew it was time. Later that night her vet came to the house and put her down as she laid her head in my lap.

Three days later a cop knocked on my door and asked if I knew the guy he had in his car and I didn't. He went on to tell me that the guy and three friends of his we're strung out on Meth and breaking into houses and were caught. Since the area I lived at had a lot of vacation houses they wanted to make sure they knew all the houses that were robbed. The officer then stated that the guy pointed out my house and said they were going to rob mine because they didn't think anyone was home since there wasn't a vehicle parked in front of the house, (I had parked mine next door because my drive had become very muddy and had gotten stuck in it a week prior). When they got to the porch and was getting ready to kick in the door they heard a "huge mean effin dog" and got scared and took off. I asked him if this was on St. Patrick's day and he went to his car and asked the guy and sure enough it was. I told the cop that because of their actions I had to put my dog to sleep and told him the story, he said he was a K-9 officer in training and he would "handle" it. He also said that this group beat up an old guy pretty bad that was home at one of the houses - he said " if only he had a dog like yours!". I still cant celebrate St. Patrick's day, she was my heart dog. But now I know you can have more than one heart dog, but she will always be my first!

Sorry I digressed, I tend to do that. My point being you can have both or one or the other but there isn't any reason why you can't give some sort of acid controller daily, natural or chemical. A strict diet MUST be maintained to prevent another pancreatic episode.


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Thanks so much for sharing your story. It reminds me why I love this breed so much. Your girl was prepared to give her life to protect you, and sadly she did. She sounds like a great dog.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:30 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Bella had pancreatitis, and he vet said I was lucky I reacted so fast getting her in. It can be fatal if it is not treated quickly. I have since changed her diet, to less fatty food, and she has done fine. No recurrences, no other issues with her stomach. I am slightly over reactive since Nexus obstructed twice, so when Bella began her incessant vomiting it was off to the vet immediately. I got chastised (lovingly) by hubby for being over cautious but in this case it paid off and he has not said a word on my cautious nature since. I would think after Mysti and her health issues he would naturally assume Id be more vigilant with these two. lol
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:42 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Poor boy.


you Vet mentioned something very interesting..........." We have been told by the vet that this is the cause of his sock eating. The sock absorbs the extra acid in his stomach therein making him feel better for the moment."

I have always wondered why so may DT members dobes like to eat socks and stuff and quite a few have digestive issues and some even bloat.

what causes excess stomach acid in a dog?

I know my dogs partake in lots of natural fiberous 'things'.....rotton wood, different grasses, goat, duck, deer etc. poop. , some dirt etc.
I have never stopped them from supplementing their diets with natural stuff.

knock on wood...........I have never had dobes with digestive disorders, no sock eating, no intestinal blockages, no bloat, no pancreatitis, no liver or kidney issues. Knock on wood again.

why?


Hugz to Dugan and hope that he feels better soon!
It actually makes sense to me that they eat odd things when the acid is an issue. My male while trying to establish him on a kibble diet suffered from acid reflux like behaviour. He would frantically try to eat and lick anything. He is normally not an "object" eater but when he was having issues he ate a leather leash and licked and pulled the carpet and was frantic to eat grass. The other funny thing is that he is more ravenous than usual. Obviously to try to ease the acid feeling.

I decided to return him to a raw diet and during the transition he was given a Pepcid AC 20 mins before each meal. This took about 2 weeks total and his issues resolved for the most part.

I have seen where he has been scolded and therefore stressed he will start gulping showing evidence of acid reflux so it appears that stress gives them some of the same symptoms it gives us.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:04 AM   #14 (permalink)
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WOW! Definitley need to log on during the weekend... Where to start… Okay…

Beaumont67: I have heard of that “stuff” from the vet. In my mind I equate it to gruel with a purpose of filling the dog’s gut so that it isn’t hungry any longer. From the research I have done, most times that type of food is very low in nutrients. I would like to stay away from that if possible. He does get raw veggies and fruits–like carrots, apples, beans – supplemented in there.

Calamity’sHuckleberry: It is my understanding that high acid exacerbates pancreatitis. One of the medications that is Rx’d to Dugan with these flare ups is an acid reducer which is used to eliminate the acid which is built up in the pancreas. My goal is to reduce the acid in order to prevent this type of flare in the future. So to answer your question: Technically it is both. Your pup’s story about this condition is terrible. Fortunately, rest and recuperation at home is the remedy for D-boy. He is more of a chronic sufferer rather than acute (as it sounded to me) like your experience. He is on a very strict diet, which is why I am unsure where these come from – I am inferring the acid. Maybe I should have been more precise in my original post. Thanks for the digression also. Those stories give me goose bumps – literally. We do have a fantastic breed on our hands… your story is proof.

LindaH: thank you for your response. That website is a very good resource and I during my previous searching DT I was directed to it. I do my best not to repeat threads on here.

Cathy 43: Isn’t it awful. Unfortunately, I think Dugan is going to be on pepcid also unless we can figure something else out that he can tolerate.

Darkevs: Thank you for the alternate remedies. That is what I was looking for from the start. My mom swears by apple cider vinegar actually.

StarlightDobe: I have the same situation in my household. Hubby always thinks I am overreacting. I finally sat him down and explained the severity of pancreatitis to him.

Donnatoldu2: Thanks for the response. I also thought it made good sense, at least enough to investigate; also because an episode of a consumed “object” (as you put it) has been followed up by a pancreatitis bout. This, for the record, has only been three times since we have had him. God only knows what he consumed while a stray.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I came across this almost by accident and have no clue if this may help or not but might want to check into it. It from WebMD -


Pancreatitis in Dogs: Symptoms and Treatments
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Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

The acinar cells in the pancreas manufacture digestive enzymes that empty into the duodenum in response to the stimulation of a meal. Without them, food cannot be adequately digested and nutrients therefore cannot be adequately absorbed. For reasons that are unknown, the acinar cells may atrophy and stop producing enzymes. This condition is called pancreatic acinar cell atrophy (PAA), and is one of the major causes of pancreatic insufficiency.

PAA begins in dogs under 2 years of age. All breeds are affected, but there is a predisposition in large breeds, particularly German Shepherd Dogs, in whom the disease may be inherited as an autosomal recessive trait.

A less common cause of pancreatic insufficiency is pancreatitis. Following a bout of inflammation, the pancreas may become scarred and contracted. This produces the same effect as acinar cell atrophy. This form of pancreatic insufficiency tends to affect middle-aged and older dogs of the small breeds.

Dogs with pancreatic insufficiency lose weight despite a voracious appetite and increased food consumption. The unabsorbed food produces a diarrhea with large, gray, semi-formed cow-pie stools with a rancid odor (see Malabsorption Syndrome). The hair around the anus is often oily from undigested fat. Intense hunger may cause the dog to eat his own stool.

The diagnosis of pancreatic insufficiency can be suspected from the appearance of the stool and other observations. The best and most accurate test is the serum trypsinlike immunoreactive assay (TLI), available to veterinarians through special mail-out laboratories. Folate and vitamin B12 levels may also be used as diagnostic aids.

Treatment: Most dogs respond well to having the missing enzymes added to their meals. Powered pancreatic extracts (Viokase-V and Pancrezyme) are superior to enteric-coated and uncrushed tablets.

Dogs who do not respond completely to pancreatic enzymes may do so when the maintenance diet is switched to a highly digestible, fat-restricted diet such as Hill’s Prescription Diet i/d. An acid-blocker such as cimetidine (Tagamet) or ranitidine (Zantac) may be prescribed by your veterinarian to prevent destruction of the pancreatic enzymes by acid in the stomach.


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