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Old 12-17-2012, 01:32 PM   #26 (permalink)
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We did learn from our vet that they feel she has a full tear of that ligament. They made it sound last night that it was only partial.

Either way we will go to the ortho consult and see what they have to say. (I will write down to ask about the TTA. Our vet made it sound like they don't them much here yet.) At this point there's just so much going on. I just want to try to keep her as comfortable as possible until we make a decision.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:55 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meldrew79 View Post
We did learn from our vet that they feel she has a full tear of that ligament. They made it sound last night that it was only partial.

Either way we will go to the ortho consult and see what they have to say. (I will write down to ask about the TTA. Our vet made it sound like they don't them much here yet.) At this point there's just so much going on. I just want to try to keep her as comfortable as possible until we make a decision.
Honestly. Good luck and hope that she has a comfortable time until she is seen.



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Old 12-17-2012, 02:05 PM   #28 (permalink)
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stem cell

Try this site Vet-Stem Might be an option, less invasive,
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:14 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You must get a board certified surgeon who has lots of experience, that is vital. Also, you must adhere to a very slow recovery process. It takes months to make sure that bone is healed properly.

Good luck and best wishes for your girl.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:24 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Try this site Vet-Stem Might be an option, less invasive,
Not applicable for full tears. I believe the tear has to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25% or less for it to be considered a treatment option.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:27 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meldrew79 View Post
We did learn from our vet that they feel she has a full tear of that ligament. They made it sound last night that it was only partial.

Either way we will go to the ortho consult and see what they have to say. (I will write down to ask about the TTA. Our vet made it sound like they don't them much here yet.) At this point there's just so much going on. I just want to try to keep her as comfortable as possible until we make a decision.
There is no definitive analysis that indicates TTA is better than TPLO, it's often more about the surgeon's preference. My malinois had a TPLO a little over 2 years at a facility that does both TTA and TPLO procedures (amongst others), and TPLO was the recommended surgery for him.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:28 PM   #32 (permalink)
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So sorry to hear about this, and at such a bad time for you all.
Sending good vibes, please keep us all updated.
Hugs to Brandy, she's lucky to be so loved.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:34 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Meldrew79 View Post
We will be looking in to Care Credit today. We were trying to hold off as we will have to use the interest option. We owe just over $8,000 for Drew's fusion, so what's a few grand more....

Brandy's appointment with her vet is at 9:30 this morning. We'll see how it goes. She's not putting any weight on it yet and had a rough night. I don't think she likes the Tramadol they put her on at the ER clinic. She cried all night unless one of us was holding her and soothing her. Once that wore off though this morning, she snuggled in and wants to sleep.
Keep in mind, this isn't scientific at all, strictly anecdotal, but I am not a fan of Tramadol for pain management in Dobermans, at this point, and here's why:

Whisper had a huge, awful reaction to it, even after taking it successfully for a period of time. She went total panic, space-cadet mode, had a freak-out of mega-proportions. Thankfully, the vet witnessed most of it--it was like she could not even see or process what she was seeing. When the meds wore off, totally back to normal.

I've also known of other Dobermans who exhibited anxiety and/or aggression, while on Tramadol, and only while on Tramadol. I know of a GSD with spinal spondylosis who also had sudden aggression while on this med, so it may not even be just Dobermans--but some dogs definitely do not feel well while on this drug.

Perhaps you can discuss other pain management options, while you're arranging your ortho stuff.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:44 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Perhaps you can discuss other pain management options, while you're arranging your ortho stuff.
She did offer to switch us over to gabapentin today, if Brandy continued to whine constantly. We declined for now, because my husband was actually on that for awhile and had a very bad reaction to it. Space cadet is a good word for what she's like right now, but the crying seems to have tapered off. We will keep a very close eye on it, thank you.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:00 PM   #35 (permalink)
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So sorry to hear this. If the care credit option has a high interest rate you might see if your bank will give you a personal loan. Those interest rates aren't great, but might be better than the care credit option. You might also contact Special Needs Dobermans to see if they can help: Special Needs Dobermans - Helping Owned AND Rescue Dobes!

I have no experience with dog CCL tears, so am not very helpful there. Prayers sent up for you and Brandy.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:03 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnh317 View Post
There is no definitive analysis that indicates TTA is better than TPLO, it's often more about the surgeon's preference. My malinois had a TPLO a little over 2 years at a facility that does both TTA and TPLO procedures (amongst others), and TPLO was the recommended surgery for him.
It's actually more to do with the angle of the stifle joint on the dog and the confidence/experience of the surgeon performing the surgery.

The TPLO changes the angle of the tibial plateau and has been a popular and reliable choice for surgeons and clients for the past 10-12 years.
TPLO has a high success rate (about 95% of dogs return to 95-100% of normal).

The TTA is a newer improved technique that changes the relationship of the patellar tendon and tibial plateau angle via an osteotomy (bone cut) in a non-weight bearing area of the bone.

TPLO remains the highest standard of ACL repair.
TTA is a newer improved ACL repair technique.
TTA allows for a more rapid recovery in most dogs and is less invasive than TPLO surgery.
If complications arise, those related to TTA are usually less devastating than with TPLO.
TPLO uses stainless steel implants
TTA uses titanium implants







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Old 12-17-2012, 03:03 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meldrew79 View Post
She did offer to switch us over to gabapentin today, if Brandy continued to whine constantly. We declined for now, because my husband was actually on that for awhile and had a very bad reaction to it. Space cadet is a good word for what she's like right now, but the crying seems to have tapered off. We will keep a very close eye on it, thank you.
Tell your husband that medication reactions aren't hereditary, and his "daughter" may very well do great on gabapentin

Whisper loves her some gabapentin, not so much on the Tramadol.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:08 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Tell your husband that medication reactions aren't hereditary, and his "daughter" may very well do great on gabapentin
Hehe, so true!


Her appointment is set for the 26th at 2:00pm. This is the Dr. we'll be seeing.
Fox Valley Animal Referral Animal Center | Meet Our Team
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:09 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
Tell your husband that medication reactions aren't hereditary, and his "daughter" may very well do great on gabapentin

Whisper loves her some gabapentin, not so much on the Tramadol.
Same here mabel's on gabapentin for her reactivity, she is honestly side affect free...the tramadol after her spay yea I gave it back and she was better with nothing but my love lol, I'm not a tramadol/rimadyl/metacam fan hoestly.

p.s. Meldrew, I've taken it too for migraines and didn't experience any side effects but funny how many human and doggy uses gabapentin has huh
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:13 PM   #40 (permalink)
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So sorry to hear this!

I didn't read through all the comments, but I wanted to chime in that surgery is not the only option. A lot more people are opting for strict rest and meds to help with inflammation and pain, and most dogs do very well.

If it ever happened to Red, I don't know which would be worse, having surgery or trying to get that psycho dog on strict rest... I think either way it would be a nightmare for me lol

Hope things work out and please keep us posted!
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:15 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Ohhh, dangit...can't believe this happened to Brandy. Not now, not at this bad time in your life!!! I hope and pray things turn around for you very soon.

I've heard the interest rate on the Care Credit is really high, too. So be sure you know what you are getting into with it before you sign up for it.

Am seconding or thirding the be sure you get a well qualified board certified surgeon with plenty of experince doing the surgery when or if you go that route. Ask about their failure rate before committing to the surgery.

You have gotten plenty of excellent advice on here, better than what I can give for sure.

Best wishes for Brandy and family!!!
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:17 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Brandy's on both tramadol and rimadyl. They cautioned us that she needs to eat with them to make sure it doesn't affect her stomach. She's not much in the mood for food, so I had to bribe her with some plain yogurt this morning with her kibble. She picked at it, ate enough to at least count so I could give her the pills.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:32 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Meldrew79 View Post
Brandy's on both tramadol and rimadyl. They cautioned us that she needs to eat with them to make sure it doesn't affect her stomach. She's not much in the mood for food, so I had to bribe her with some plain yogurt this morning with her kibble. She picked at it, ate enough to at least count so I could give her the pills.
Sometimes it helps to use an antacid or nausea drug prior to meds that may cause stomach upset, especially if they don't eat well before giving the offending drugs.

I like Pepcid AC (famotidine) which is available over the counter. You could start with giving a whole 10mg tablet about 30 minutes before giving the other meds. I have given up to 20mg in larger dogs for upset tummies though.

It might help her to feel less nauseous and have more of an appetite on the other drugs.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:35 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I called and got the gabapentin that she offered us this morning. I will pick it up after work. I don't want my girl to be all strung out and unhappy.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:32 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 4Dobes View Post
It's actually more to do with the angle of the stifle joint on the dog and the confidence/experience of the surgeon performing the surgery.

The TPLO changes the angle of the tibial plateau and has been a popular and reliable choice for surgeons and clients for the past 10-12 years.
TPLO has a high success rate (about 95% of dogs return to 95-100% of normal).

The TTA is a newer improved technique that changes the relationship of the patellar tendon and tibial plateau angle via an osteotomy (bone cut) in a non-weight bearing area of the bone.

TPLO remains the highest standard of ACL repair.
TTA is a newer improved ACL repair technique.
TTA allows for a more rapid recovery in most dogs and is less invasive than TPLO surgery.
If complications arise, those related to TTA are usually less devastating than with TPLO.
TPLO uses stainless steel implants
TTA uses titanium implants





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And again, my point was that there is no definitive study of TPLO versus TTA to say TTA is a "better" or "improved" technique.

Yes, TTAs are less invasive and supposed to have a quicker recovery time, but it doesn't make it the proper surgery choice for all dogs. Most surgeons specialize / certify in one surgery or the other not both (which is why the surgeon one chooses, i.e. surgeon preference IS typically the deciding factor as to which surgery is selected), but having consulted with more than 1 doctor that does do both, size of the dog (are you aware some surgeons that do both types of procedures impose a weight limit on dogs they will consider for TTAs?) and activity level were the primary decision factors as to which surgery was the best option.

Also, at this point TTA is not all that new anymore. TTA has been an option for nearly 10 years now, with TPLO being around for nearly 20.

It's great you're happy with the surgery and results, but unless you're an orthopedic surgeon and have examined the dog in question I don't think it wise to be advising folks as to what type of surgery they should pursue / request. The best advice to give is to tell people to find the very best board certified specialist possible and to follow the treatment recommendations (including physical therapy) to a T.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:03 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Some dogs have bad reactions to tramadol. Gabapentin is a good option but if that doesn't work either (hopefully it will) Codine is yet another option. Different vets like different meds.

The hospital I work at will do either the TPLO or the TTA, but TPLO is done BY FAR more often. The major complications you see with the TPLO is if they have a reaction to the plate and have to have it taken out or a meniscal tear which can be fixed with an arthoscopy (so minimally invasive). There is always the possibility of breaking screws or even the fibula (but that's non weight bearing so while they are recovering from the TPLO in the first place, nothing really changes in the after care). The only time we see major complications is if the aftercare is not taken seriously and the dogs are not kept restricted. The other most common complication we see is if they strain their iliopsoas (groin) muscle, and that can happen with out major incident just because they are putting more strain on those muscles. But that is easily fixable with some muscle relaxers. It sucks and I would not want to have to deal with it by any means, but it is so important. Its not ideal but if she truly is going nuts you an always ask for some acepromizine for a sedative.

It won't be easy and you've got a several month journey ahead of you but talk to your surgeon. The surgeon will know best and will know what would be best for Brandy. Try to keep your chin up and know that you are doing the best you can for Brandy!
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:30 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I don't think in any of my posts that I have said to go for any operation over another.
I have just quoted what I have leaned over the last few months and after speaking to my surgeon who is considered to be the one of the best Orthopaedics surgeons in the UK ( its a famous vet school ) and was trying to help as I am actually going through this right at this moment.
I've always pointed out to make sure the surgeon is capable and that it's the aftercare that is important.

I only mentioned the TTA because in an earlier post it was mentioned that a TPLO was the operation so I thought I would give her the other choice of which I have experience.

But let's agree to disagree and move on 😄

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Old 12-17-2012, 11:55 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 4Dobes View Post
I don't think in any of my posts that I have said to go for any operation over another.
I have just quoted what I have leaned over the last few months and after speaking to my surgeon who is considered to be the one of the best Orthopaedics surgeons in the UK ( its a famous vet school ) and was trying to help as I am actually going through this right at this moment.
I've always pointed out to make sure the surgeon is capable and that it's the aftercare that is important.

I only mentioned the TTA because in an earlier post it was mentioned that a TPLO was the operation so I thought I would give her the other choice of which I have experience.

But let's agree to disagree and move on ��
I am sure you are just brainstorming with OP with all intentions of helping, but the actual point was your wording.

You referred to the TTA as the "improved" surgery, and as the other poster pointed out, there really hasn't been any research to back that claim up as of yet.

Brandy's humans, I am sure, will make the best decision they can make, for their dog, after going over all the options with a good board-certified surgeon.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:34 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
I am sure you are just brainstorming with OP with all intentions of helping, but the actual point was your wording.

You referred to the TTA as the "improved" surgery, and as the other poster pointed out, there really hasn't been any research to back that claim up as of yet.

Brandy's humans, I am sure, will make the best decision they can make, for their dog, after going over all the options with a good board-certified surgeon.
I agree maybe the terminology was incorrect but I was quoting what I was told be my surgeon who carries out all the procedures and teaches them to up and coming vets

In my defence I did paste a google link in my very first post which answers lots of the questions and answers everyone had raised.

http://ttasurgery.com/html/faq.html


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Old 12-18-2012, 06:32 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Brandy did much better on the gabapentin last night! She didn't cry at all, I just had to take her out twice to go potty. She's funny about that anyway, for some reason she likes to save a poo for the middle of the night.
She did jump down from the bed, which I didn't think she'd do so we're going to have to come up with a solution to that. I know we can NOT have her jumping around. I think we may just disassemble the bed and put the mattress right on the floor. I am crating her during the day which she's not used to, so I'd hate to have to crate her at night too. That's just too much crate time imo.
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