White dobermans and other colors - Page 5 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

Doberman Health If it has to do with your dog and its health post here.

DobermanTalk.com is the premier Doberman Dog Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-07-2012, 09:10 PM   #101 (permalink)
MY BEST FRIEND
 
VZ-Doberman's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,728
Location: Delaware
Dogs Name: Briarwood Back To Basics aka Bacchus
Titles: Yes..........89 titles, awards and certificates and is a service dog.
Dogs Age: 6 Years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 8,040
Thanked 14,057 Times in 4,358 Posts
VZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
To me squinting or possibility of getting sunburns are not negatives.
How could they not be for a working breed?
VZ-Doberman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2009
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Nynaeve (12-07-2012), Ojai Sho-Shawnee (12-17-2012), Rosemary (12-07-2012)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-07-2012, 09:12 PM   #102 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
You would still have the albino problems that would prevent the dog from doing what a doberman is bred for. These limitations would preclude it from any kind of outdoor work.

The poster above explained very well what he must do for his guy when he goes out.

What working titles are you referring to?
It does not make it unable to do what dobermans were bred to do. It just makes the owner have to be responsible in taking precautions.

Yes he has stated what he has to do but as I stated I have to do the same for my fair skinned niece. She hates being in the sun and you have to hold her hand when you walk in it because she always wants to close her eyes. Should people who will produce fair skinned children not be allowed to have kids?
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
Old 12-07-2012, 09:15 PM   #103 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
How could they not be for a working breed?
Well if it is just that it is negative because they are a working breed, then any breeder who only shows their dogs and does not get them to obtain working titles and people who have dobermans and don't use them for working "aren't reputable and are scum". If the reason that they are negative is because it effects their ability to do what they were bred to do and that is the reason you are saying they shouldn't be allowed in the standard and shouldn't be bred, then any doberman that is not doing what it was bred to do should not be bred.
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
Old 12-07-2012, 09:19 PM   #104 (permalink)
MY BEST FRIEND
 
VZ-Doberman's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,728
Location: Delaware
Dogs Name: Briarwood Back To Basics aka Bacchus
Titles: Yes..........89 titles, awards and certificates and is a service dog.
Dogs Age: 6 Years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 8,040
Thanked 14,057 Times in 4,358 Posts
VZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
They are not within standard because people pushed for them to be a disqualifying color. Every new color that pops up on a dog has a strong contigency against it.
You seem to be fixated on the what if. If by some stroke of genius a group of breeders managed to fix the conformation problems and the temperament issues, you would still have a dog that was unfit for working. And again, the doberman is a working breed.
VZ-Doberman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2009
The Following User Says Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Nynaeve (12-07-2012)
Old 12-07-2012, 09:21 PM   #105 (permalink)
Alpha
 
DobeAndBorderCollie's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,274
Location: Hollywood, FL
Dogs Name: Hades and Snoop Dog
Dogs Age: 2 and 9
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit DobeAndBorderCollie's Gallery
Thanks: 1,294
Thanked 4,851 Times in 983 Posts
Images: 1
DobeAndBorderCollie has a reputation beyond reputeDobeAndBorderCollie has a reputation beyond reputeDobeAndBorderCollie has a reputation beyond reputeDobeAndBorderCollie has a reputation beyond reputeDobeAndBorderCollie has a reputation beyond reputeDobeAndBorderCollie has a reputation beyond reputeDobeAndBorderCollie has a reputation beyond reputeDobeAndBorderCollie has a reputation beyond reputeDobeAndBorderCollie has a reputation beyond reputeDobeAndBorderCollie has a reputation beyond reputeDobeAndBorderCollie has a reputation beyond repute
Yes you're right, any dog with white short hair is prone to sunburn. My friend has a white pit bull that he has to put sunblock on even though shes not an albino. I too have read up a lot on whether or not white dobermans are true albinos and agree they might not be true albinos.

That being said, I don't think the albino debate matters as much as what I consider the bigger issue with them. My dog came from two other whites/albinos being bred. The breeders had 7-8 white/albino dobermans that they just bred and bred. (As I said...scumbags)

The health issues are probably much less about whether or not they're "albino" and more to do with the stigma with white dobermans. Certain breeders won't breed them, leading to them being less common, therefore the ones who do breed them have less to pick from. I'm sure there is much more inbreeding going on when it comes to whites than a black/rust Doberman for example. I think the more rampant inbreeding that is likely happening with whites is what's the root of the health issues. Until the albino debate is settled and whites are accepted (if they aren't in fact a mutation) will any type of reputable breeding ever happen.

I don't know where you are but the rescue I got Hades from had another white Doberman.... a year old I believe. Just a thought


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App
__________________

He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader.
He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion
DobeAndBorderCollie is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2012
Old 12-07-2012, 09:25 PM   #106 (permalink)
MY BEST FRIEND
 
VZ-Doberman's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,728
Location: Delaware
Dogs Name: Briarwood Back To Basics aka Bacchus
Titles: Yes..........89 titles, awards and certificates and is a service dog.
Dogs Age: 6 Years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 8,040
Thanked 14,057 Times in 4,358 Posts
VZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
It does not make it unable to do what dobermans were bred to do. It just makes the owner have to be responsible in taking precautions.
Yes, it does make them unable to do what the doberman was bred to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
Yes he has stated what he has to do but as I stated I have to do the same for my fair skinned niece. She hates being in the sun and you have to hold her hand when you walk in it because she always wants to close her eyes. Should people who will produce fair skinned children not be allowed to have kids?
Apples and oranges. Why would you force your niece to walk in the sun when it is something she finds unpleasant?

Do you understand what the purpose of the doberman is?
VZ-Doberman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2009
The Following User Says Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Nynaeve (12-07-2012)
Old 12-07-2012, 09:27 PM   #107 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by DobeAndBorderCollie View Post
Yes you're right, any dog with white short hair is prone to sunburn. My friend has a white pit bull that he has to put sunblock on even though shes not an albino. I too have read up a lot on whether or not white dobermans are true albinos and agree they might not be true albinos.

That being said, I don't think the albino debate matters as much as what I consider the bigger issue with them. My dog came from two other whites/albinos being bred. The breeders had 7-8 white/albino dobermans that they just bred and bred. (As I said...scumbags)

The health issues are probably much less about whether or not they're "albino" and more to do with the stigma with white dobermans. Certain breeders won't breed them, leading to them being less common, therefore the ones who do breed them have less to pick from. I'm sure there is much more inbreeding going on when it comes to whites than a black/rust Doberman for example. I think the more rampant inbreeding that is likely happening with whites is what's the root of the health issues. Until the albino debate is settled and whites are accepted (if they aren't in fact a mutation) will any type of reputable breeding ever happen.

I don't know where you are but the rescue I got Hades from had another white Doberman.... a year old I believe. Just a thought


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App
I COMPLETELY agree that most of the issues with albinos is that of the way they are being bred, but there are just as many bybs breeding black and rusts with health issues. It is not the gene it is the breeders. I have stated many times I don't agree with they way they are breeding them. I am just as against the way they are being bred since they are not being bred for structure, temperament, and health. ANY doberman of ANY color that is not bred for all three will have problems.

I also do have a problem with breeding any homo recessive gene animal to a homo recessive gene animal. I feel that the recessive gene should only he bred homo to het or het to het (not sure if they refer to it like that in mammals lol but that is the reptile way)
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
Old 12-07-2012, 09:33 PM   #108 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Nynaeve's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,484
Location: Las Vegas
Dogs Name: Thor (Dobe) Trinket (Dobe) and Holly (Dalmatian mix)
Titles: Ch BN CGC, Ch WAC
Dogs Age: 4 years, 2 year, 14 years (RIP)
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit Nynaeve's Gallery
Thanks: 7,317
Thanked 3,276 Times in 1,069 Posts
Images: 2
Nynaeve has a reputation beyond reputeNynaeve has a reputation beyond reputeNynaeve has a reputation beyond reputeNynaeve has a reputation beyond reputeNynaeve has a reputation beyond reputeNynaeve has a reputation beyond reputeNynaeve has a reputation beyond reputeNynaeve has a reputation beyond reputeNynaeve has a reputation beyond reputeNynaeve has a reputation beyond reputeNynaeve has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
They are not within standard because people pushed for them to be a disqualifying color. Every new color that pops up on a dog has a strong contigency against it.

Scientific studies show that in mammal breedings 1 in 10,000 are albinos in birds it is even higher at 1 in 1,767. Albinos exist in all species of animals and science has shown that hey are just as healthy as normal colored animals. Maybe the albinos we have now don't fit the structural standard but who is to say someone can't spend years breeding in good lines and producing properly structured ones?

Maybe no breeder that you consider reputable would breed to an albino but what if someone buought a couple of show quality studs and showed them and tested them and then bred them to a couple of albino bitches. Then the z factor offspring that showed show potential showed and tested them and culled (spayed or neutered) the other offspring. And over time could successful produce quality line white dobermans. Any show breeder has spent years getting to the point they have to consistently produce the quality of dogs that they do. It didnt just happen in a few breedings and if it did it is because they are really just using someone elses lines.
When you breed a dog, you breed the entire pedigree. Reputable breeders have generation upon generation of quality, health tested dogs behind them. Albino breeders have generation upon generation of untitled and untested dogs behind them, going back to a few generations of horribly inbred dogs that go back to a single bitch.

No reputable breeder will want any dog they bred to come near that, even if Albinos were in the standard. Which is where you would get any starting show quality dogs.
Nynaeve is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Dec 2009
The Following User Says Thank You to Nynaeve For This Useful Post:
VZ-Doberman (12-07-2012)
Old 12-07-2012, 09:33 PM   #109 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
Yes, it does make them unable to do what the doberman was bred to do.



Apples and oranges. Why would you force your niece to walk in the sun when it is something she finds unpleasant?

Do you understand what the purpose of the doberman is?
I don't force her. She wants to go to the park or the beach or whatever. It is impossible to go to these places without going in the sun.

I do understand what the original purpose of a doberman was. As I know what the original purpose of a yorkie was. But neither of them are really used for their original purpose. They are now household pets and friends. I highly doubt that you walk your property with your doberman on guard duty or use him to protect you as you travel down bandit filled roads. As I know there are probably no yorkies that are used for rat-baiting or hunting rats.

So I am missing how white dobermans can not perform the today duties of a doberman. White dobermans compete in trials and make loving household pets.
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
Old 12-07-2012, 09:37 PM   #110 (permalink)
MY BEST FRIEND
 
VZ-Doberman's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,728
Location: Delaware
Dogs Name: Briarwood Back To Basics aka Bacchus
Titles: Yes..........89 titles, awards and certificates and is a service dog.
Dogs Age: 6 Years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 8,040
Thanked 14,057 Times in 4,358 Posts
VZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
Well if it is just that it is negative because they are a working breed, then any breeder who only shows their dogs and does not get them to obtain working titles and people who have dobermans and don't use them for working "aren't reputable and are scum". If the reason that they are negative is because it effects their ability to do what they were bred to do and that is the reason you are saying they shouldn't be allowed in the standard and shouldn't be bred, then any doberman that is not doing what it was bred to do should not be bred.
But the dogs that are within the standard are quite capable of doing what they were bred to do. It's when they are not within standard (like what bybs churn out) is when they cannot do their jobs. Look around and you will see members here who have titles both working, confo, sar, service, etc. and also dogs that are in the process of competing or working. The pedigrees behind these dogs have titles from different venues.

If a dog that squints in sunlight, a dog that sunburns without sunblock is not a dog that can work.

A dobe must have good conformation to hold up to the rigors of working. They must have the correct temperament and health.
VZ-Doberman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2009
The Following User Says Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Nynaeve (12-07-2012)
Old 12-07-2012, 09:37 PM   #111 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nynaeve View Post
When you breed a dog, you breed the entire pedigree. Reputable breeders have generation upon generation of quality, health tested dogs behind them. Albino breeders have generation upon generation of untitled and untested dogs behind them, going back to a few generations of horribly inbred dogs that go back to a single bitch.

No reputable breeder will want any dog they bred to come near that, even if Albinos were in the standard. Which is where you would get any starting show quality dogs.
Yes NOW there are generations and generations of known dogs in the pedigrees but a breeder at some point had to start with untested dogs. The same would have to be done with whites. The whole inbreeding thing is kind of null to me at this point. We are so many generations away from those initial breedings. Many "quality" show lines if you go back as far as you would to the "single bitch" that started the whites, you would see inbreeding and very close linebreeding.
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
Old 12-07-2012, 09:40 PM   #112 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
But the dogs that are within the standard are quite capable of doing what they were bred to do. It's when they are not within standard (like what bybs churn out) is when they cannot do their jobs. Look around and you will see members here who have titles both working, confo, sar, service, etc. and also dogs that are in the process of competing or working. The pedigrees behind these dogs have titles from different venues.

If a dog that squints in sunlight, a dog that sunburns without sunblock is not a dog that can work.

A dobe must have good conformation to hold up to the rigors of working. They must have the correct temperament and health.
Your last statement I could not agree with more, but it has taken MANY years of knowledgeable breeding to produce the dogs that we see today. When these quality lines first started they had to outcross and inbreed and linebreed to produce the conformation, temperament, and health they are producing today.

My friends white doberman doesn't seem to squint anymore in the light than her red one does. I hope to get a video up soon to show this. The squinting could possibly be a health issue not connected to the gene that is causing them to be white but from poor breeding.
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
Old 12-07-2012, 09:43 PM   #113 (permalink)
Professional Snake Wiggle
 
Jazi's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,751
Location: Lancaster, PA
Dogs Name: Rebholzer Chasing the Moon "Creed", RIP Skoll
Dogs Age: 04/12/2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Jazi's Gallery
Thanks: 2,280
Thanked 4,522 Times in 1,285 Posts
Jazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
Yes NOW there are generations and generations of known dogs in the pedigrees but a breeder at some point had to start with untested dogs. The same would have to be done with whites. The whole inbreeding thing is kind of null to me at this point. We are so many generations away from those initial breedings. Many "quality" show lines if you go back as far as you would to the "single bitch" that started the whites, you would see inbreeding and very close linebreeding.
Only for new breeds. In current breeds with standards and recognition, the breeder should start with known lineages. It is actually possible to become a breeder without becoming a BYB.
__________________
Jazi is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jul 2012
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jazi For This Useful Post:
RedFawnRising (12-07-2012), Rosemary (12-07-2012), VZ-Doberman (12-07-2012)
Old 12-07-2012, 09:46 PM   #114 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazi View Post
Only for new breeds. In current breeds with standards and recognition, the breeder should start with known lineages. It is actually possible to become a breeder without becoming a BYB.
Part of a new breeders starting should be known lineage but I don't see a problem with using an "unknown" one if its health and temperament are good and you are willing to put the time and effort into producing quality dogs and culling (spaying and neutering) the one that don't meet the mark.
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
Old 12-07-2012, 09:52 PM   #115 (permalink)
MY BEST FRIEND
 
VZ-Doberman's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,728
Location: Delaware
Dogs Name: Briarwood Back To Basics aka Bacchus
Titles: Yes..........89 titles, awards and certificates and is a service dog.
Dogs Age: 6 Years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 8,040
Thanked 14,057 Times in 4,358 Posts
VZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
I do understand what the original purpose of a doberman was. As I know what the original purpose of a yorkie was. But neither of them are really used for their original purpose. They are now household pets and friends.
Wrong. They were and still are protectors. And can do that job if they have the correct temperament and conformation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
I highly doubt that you walk your property with your doberman on guard duty or use him to protect you as you travel down bandit filled roads. As I know there are probably no yorkies that are used for rat-baiting or hunting rats.
That particular trait has been lost. And I wonder why? When I walk I certainly do have him there to protect me. His ability to assess a threat is impressive. His ability to defend is beyond impressive. So, yes, your assumption as to what I use him for is incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdoby View Post
So I am missing how white dobermans can not perform the today duties of a doberman. White dobermans compete in trials and make loving household pets.
Yes, I agree, you are missing how albino dobes cannot perform the today duties of a doberman. I have repeatedly explained that to you but still you insist that it doesn't matter.

Last edited by VZ-Doberman; 12-07-2012 at 09:55 PM..
VZ-Doberman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2009
The Following User Says Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
Nynaeve (12-07-2012)
Old 12-07-2012, 09:53 PM   #116 (permalink)
Paralibrarian
 
GingerGunlock's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,745
Location: CNY
Dogs Name: Elka
Titles: NTD
Dogs Age: DOB 5-16-09
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit GingerGunlock's Gallery
Thanks: 20,435
Thanked 10,701 Times in 4,475 Posts
Images: 1
GingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
Part of a new breeders starting should be known lineage but I don't see a problem with using an "unknown" one if its health and temperament are good and you are willing to put the time and effort into producing quality dogs and culling (spaying and neutering) the one that don't meet the mark.
Bold mine.

"Call no dog healthy until he is dead."


(paraphrased from Herodotus: "Call no man happy until he is dead.")
__________________
GingerGunlock is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jan 2011
Old 12-07-2012, 09:53 PM   #117 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
BTW VZ-Doberman I appreciate your none snide non cynical approach to me. I realize that you completely disagree with what I am still on the fence about, but I appreciate you talking to me like a civil adult.
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
The Following User Says Thank You to remysdobys For This Useful Post:
VZ-Doberman (12-07-2012)
Old 12-07-2012, 09:54 PM   #118 (permalink)
Professional Snake Wiggle
 
Jazi's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,751
Location: Lancaster, PA
Dogs Name: Rebholzer Chasing the Moon "Creed", RIP Skoll
Dogs Age: 04/12/2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Jazi's Gallery
Thanks: 2,280
Thanked 4,522 Times in 1,285 Posts
Jazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond reputeJazi has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
Part of a new breeders starting should be known lineage but I don't see a problem with using an "unknown" one if its health and temperament are good and you are willing to put the time and effort into producing quality dogs and culling (spaying and neutering) the one that don't meet the mark.
How do you know that the health is good if you don't test?
How do you know it's the proper temperament if you don't title for breed-appropriate titles?
How do you know it's conformationally correct if you don't compete in shows?
How do you know that you might have a fluke dog in a byb pedigree that is absolutely fine, but will produce similar dogs to it's lineage in terms or health, conformation, or temperament if you don't know pedigree to begin with?

How do you know you're producing quality if you reject the usual measurements of quality?
__________________
Jazi is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jul 2012
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Jazi For This Useful Post:
GingerGunlock (12-07-2012), Nynaeve (12-07-2012), RedFawnRising (12-07-2012), Rosemary (12-07-2012), the_discowhore (12-13-2012), VZ-Doberman (12-07-2012)
Old 12-07-2012, 10:00 PM   #119 (permalink)
MY BEST FRIEND
 
VZ-Doberman's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,728
Location: Delaware
Dogs Name: Briarwood Back To Basics aka Bacchus
Titles: Yes..........89 titles, awards and certificates and is a service dog.
Dogs Age: 6 Years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 8,040
Thanked 14,057 Times in 4,358 Posts
VZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
My friends white doberman doesn't seem to squint anymore in the light than her red one does. I hope to get a video up soon to show this. The squinting could possibly be a health issue not connected to the gene that is causing them to be white but from poor breeding.
A health issue causing a dog to squint would certainly be something a vet visit would/could fix. On the other hand, a squinting problem associated with being an albino is not fixable.
VZ-Doberman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2009
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to VZ-Doberman For This Useful Post:
GingerGunlock (12-07-2012), Rosemary (12-07-2012)
Old 12-07-2012, 10:01 PM   #120 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
Wrong. They were and still are protectors. And can do that job if they have the correct temperament and conformation.



That particular trait has been lost. And I wonder why? When I walk I certainly do have him there to protect me. His ability to access a threat is impressive. His ability to defend is beyond impressive. So, yes, your assumption as to what I use him for is incorrect.



Yes, I agree, you are missing how albino dobes cannot perform the today duties of a doberman. I have repeatedly explained that to you but still you insist that it doesn't matter.
A white doberman can be a protector. And I realize they need the proper conformation and temperament to do that but I don't agree that color has anything to do with that.

When my friend walks she takes her mutt as protection to. Any dog can be used for protection. And he has been trained in obedience, defensive, and offensive training by a guy near I believe Birmingham, AL whose name is Ralph. He doesn't have the markings or look of a doberman but he is just as intuitive and intelligent as any dog I have ever seen.

Nothing you have said has in my OPINION proven that they can't perform their duties. THEY NEED SUNSCREEN- so do fair skin cops. THEY SQUINT IN THE SUN- so do most people with blue eyes and there are many cops out there with blue eyes. Just because they squint doesn't mean other cops are better than they are.
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
Old 12-07-2012, 10:05 PM   #121 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazi View Post
How do you know that the health is good if you don't test?
How do you know it's the proper temperament if you don't title for breed-appropriate titles?
How do you know it's conformationally correct if you don't compete in shows?
How do you know that you might have a fluke dog in a byb pedigree that is absolutely fine, but will produce similar dogs to it's lineage in terms or health, conformation, or temperament if you don't know pedigree to begin with?

How do you know you're producing quality if you reject the usual measurements of quality?
You can only breed with so much certainty no matter what. There is always something from the past popping up aka dilutes, whites, and health issues. Yes you know with more certainty that those will not pop up but there is always a risk. No you aren't going to be able to consistently produce quality dogs in a couple of years but over time you could.
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
Old 12-07-2012, 10:07 PM   #122 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
A health issue causing a dog to squint would certainly be something a vet visit would/could fix. On the other hand, a squinting problem associated with being an albino is not fixable.
I agree but we don't know which problem it is as of yet. Seeing as there ARE whites that don't squint more than a "accepted" color.
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
Old 12-07-2012, 10:08 PM   #123 (permalink)
MY BEST FRIEND
 
VZ-Doberman's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,728
Location: Delaware
Dogs Name: Briarwood Back To Basics aka Bacchus
Titles: Yes..........89 titles, awards and certificates and is a service dog.
Dogs Age: 6 Years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit VZ-Doberman's Gallery
Thanks: 8,040
Thanked 14,057 Times in 4,358 Posts
VZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond reputeVZ-Doberman has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by remysdobys View Post
A white doberman can be a protector. And I realize they need the proper conformation and temperament to do that but I don't agree that color has anything to do with that.

When my friend walks she takes her mutt as protection to. Any dog can be used for protection. And he has been trained in obedience, defensive, and offensive training by a guy near I believe Birmingham, AL whose name is Ralph. He doesn't have the markings or look of a doberman but he is just as intuitive and intelligent as any dog I have ever seen.

Nothing you have said has in my OPINION proven that they can't perform their duties. THEY NEED SUNSCREEN- so do fair skin cops. THEY SQUINT IN THE SUN- so do most people with blue eyes and there are many cops out there with blue eyes. Just because they squint doesn't mean other cops are better than they are.
A white doberman in sunlight would be at a serious disadvantage. You must see to be able to protect or do other duties.

You keep comparing people to dogs. Like I said, apples and oranges.

I'm not saying this to be snide, but with each post you sound more and more like the bybs that come here to defend the indefensible.
VZ-Doberman is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2009
Old 12-07-2012, 10:09 PM   #124 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
All right well let me say and post this so people don't ASSUME that I am slinking away. I will be on the road for the next few days and when not driving will be sleeping mostly so won't have time to come on and respond. I promise I am not slinking away and will respond to posts that happen while I am gone. I am appreciating the debates and picking of brains.
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
The Following User Says Thank You to remysdobys For This Useful Post:
VZ-Doberman (12-07-2012)
Old 12-07-2012, 10:10 PM   #125 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
Posts: 65
Location: Florida

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit remysdobys's Gallery
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
remysdobys is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
A white doberman in sunlight would be at a serious disadvantage. You must see to be able to protect or do other duties.

You keep comparing people to dogs. Like I said, apples and oranges.

I'm not saying this to be snide, but with each post you sound more and more like the bybs that come here to defend the indefensible.
And as I have said. I PERSONALLY have met a white that didn't really squint. NOT heard of one SAW one.
remysdobys is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2010
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
@2005 - 2008 DobermanTalk.com
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com