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Old 11-20-2012, 04:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Low Level Laser Therapy

After having a 2nd opinion done on my almost 10 yr old spayed female Doberman's large upper inside back leg lipoma about 4 months ago, I was given an option to try an alternative therapy where they use a low level laser to try and shrink the mass. This was about 4 months or so ago, and the vet said they would not be able to operate on it to remove it and since at the time it was not bothering her , I should just keep an eye on it to see if it gets larger. I take about 2 pictures a month of it and can't really tell that it has gotten any bigger, but I can tell that my girl is starting to swing her leg out some when she is walking and favoring that leg when pushing up onto the couch and jumping down.

I guess my question is, has anyone used this form of therapy on their dogs before? After researching on the net it seems it can be used for cancer, musculoskletal and neurological disorders, etc.. I just want to help my girl out. She is a lumpy/lipoma filled dog but there is nothing else wrong with her. If I can provide her a little more comfort for about $400 (the cost of 13 treatment sessions) that would be a great Christmas present to her.

Thanks for any and all advice.. Below is a picture of the lipoma that I am dealing with. Honestly and I don't know how, but this showed up almost over night.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Just curious, why doesn't the vet think they can remove it?
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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From what I remember that both vets told me was because of the size and because of blood vessels that are all around it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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We use this quite frequently at work. Personally I'm still a bit of a skeptic but we've seen some great progress in a cat that was previously paralyzed in the rear, a 13 y/o cat with chronic sinus infections for the past few years is sneeze and gook free after laser and homeopathic supplements, we use it for wobblers dogs, non surgical acl tear repair...etc...

What brand of laser is your clinic using? We have the Erchonia Base station
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Awesome, Thanks for your feed back Sam1491. I don't know the exact brand of laser the 2nd vet has but they did tell me they just got a brand new one. The vet told me their old laser was like a BB gun blast, where the new one is more like a shot-gun blast. I will find out the brand and post back. I've pretty much talked myself into doing this since I have not been given any other options
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Awesome, Thanks for your feed back Sam1491. I don't know the exact brand of laser the 2nd vet has but they did tell me they just got a brand new one. The vet told me their old laser was like a BB gun blast, where the new one is more like a shot-gun blast. I will find out the brand and post back. I've pretty much talked myself into doing this since I have not been given any other options
Hmm not sure from that description but looking forward to finding out.

Like I said i'm personally skeptical, just one of those things that's hard for me to have faith in but that doesn't mean it doesn't work, and if it's all you've got, like you said, why not

P.s. here's a few pics of it, we did it sporadically to help reduce mabel's hygroma...she wasn't a fan of sitting still with lights lol

http://www.flickr.com/photos/87244839@N06/

This laser, the base station (one we have), has three different heads or controlers each with two lights, the third head has a red and purple the other two are both red lights

http://www.erchonia.com/low-level-laser-therapy

in the above link we have both the base station and pl3000, we started with the pl and upgraded. Their website as a whole has some great info too
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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We have had a lot of success with a the laser. Avril had a lick spot that went away after about 5 sessions. She also had some sort of skin tag that the vet did for free because they weren't sure it would work, it shrunk down within a few days of the first session. I know we've used it on a few of our other dogs for different reasons, it's always worked. Nothing as big as the tumor on your girl though.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Mabel is one beautiful dog. Thank you for posting those links. I'm going to read over everything tonight. I'm also skeptical but I'm going for it. All I can do is hope. The vet said that there is some kind of business in my town that uses a laser like that on people for cosmetic reasons. Who knows. I will have more info after Thanksgiving and will post results and hopefully pictures of a smaller lipoma.

Thank you also Dobelove! My girl has a ton of skin tags on her chest and somewhere around 20 or so lipomas. They range in size from a pea , to a 1/4 golf ball to that one on her leg.

I apologize for starting 2 threads about pretty much the same thing in the last couple of months about my dog. I am just at so much of a loss on what to do for Neka. I can't even understand how what is on her leg is even a lipoma. It's nothing like her other ones that are defined and moveable. Her skin is so tight around that mass that I don't see how it has not torn like a wet paper towel..

Thanks All,
Tom
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Diva's been having low level laser treatment for arthritis. The improvement is subtle, but significant. Her movement is more fluid, and she just all around feels good, initiating play and trying very hard to engage us whenever she thinks she just might be successful in getting us to play with her in any way, shape or form. She is also more inclined to static jump (onto the bed; into the car) than she was before.

She is not and was not greatly debilitated; I'm just a proactive sort of person, and especially with arthritis, where improvement is only going to happen if you get on it before things are bone-on-bone. She had been reluctant to static jump, and also seems stiff when she arises, just like an older human might.

Another dog at the vet's had a severe foot injury; the sort for which they would formerly have amputated. It's fully healed with the laser.

The price you quote is competitive.

I'm pretty inclined to try things that have no downside or side effects (other than to my wallet).
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks for the good review GrndDelite. I'm glad that the therapy is working for your dog. I give my dog 2 Glyco-Flex III soft chews a day to assist with I hope preventing arthritis. The reviews are very good on this product. I buy a bag of 120 on Amazon for less than 1/2 the price the one vet sold me 60 for. I can tell a difference in my dog with being a little stiff in the mornings when I run out and am waiting for another bag to be delivered. My dogs difference is night and day after being off of the Glyco flex for 2 or more days.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
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There was a really great, in-depth article in one of the recent issues of Whole Dog Journal on lipomas. If you don't subscribe it might be worth it to do so. You can read all their articles online if you are a subscriber. If I still had my issue I'd send it to you but I threw it away.

Is your vet sure it's a lipoma? Has it been aspirated? I only ask because you mentioned how quickly it appeared and that it feels different than the other lipomas she has.

I definitely think it's worth trying the laser therapy to give your girl better mobility.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Hello MeadowCat. Yes, the vet did perform a needle aspiration and checked the cells. They came back as fat cells.

I have not heard of that magazine yet but I am going to look into it now. Maybe I can order a back issue somehow.

Another thing that seemed to crop up today is a hematomas on one of her ears. She is not cropped but I guess she scratched it to hard and broke some blood vessels. My last dog, a Chocolate Lab had a ear hematoma from slipping on the deck steps while running inside to quick and needed to have 3 surgeries to correct it. I can't prove it, but I think the last sugery and being put under, shut down his kidneys and he had to be put to sleep about a week afterwards. My dogs do not go to that vet and never have. I'll let everyone know what happens come Monday.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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There was a really great, in-depth article in one of the recent issues of Whole Dog Journal on lipomas. If you don't subscribe it might be worth it to do so. You can read all their articles online if you are a subscriber. If I still had my issue I'd send it to you but I threw it away.

Is your vet sure it's a lipoma? Has it been aspirated? I only ask because you mentioned how quickly it appeared and that it feels different than the other lipomas she has.

I definitely think it's worth trying the laser therapy to give your girl better mobility.
I found the article. Looks like it is in the October issue. Subscibing now! Thank You
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:29 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobelove View Post
We have had a lot of success with a the laser. Avril had a lick spot that went away after about 5 sessions. She also had some sort of skin tag that the vet did for free because they weren't sure it would work, it shrunk down within a few days of the first session. I know we've used it on a few of our other dogs for different reasons, it's always worked. Nothing as big as the tumor on your girl though.
Odin had a horrible, oozing hygroma on his elbow that would not heal and kept getting infected.

He was on rounds of antibiotics with no success.

I found a wonderful lady who does cold laser therapy on dogs and after just two treatments, it was completely gone and healed.

All that remains is a tiny hairless spot the size of a pencil eraser.

I was so impressed with her work and love for dogs that I run her website.

Home

'Halla, the brain injured puppy is going for her second treatment this week and I'd swear she's greatly improved.

After researching cold laser use in TBI, we decided to give it a shot and whereas her vision was negligible 2 weeks ago, her first treatment certainly seems to have helped.

She's now tracking our movements, pouncing on toys on the floor and watching TV.
[seriously]

I would definitely give it a go, myself.

'Halla also has a limp in the arm that had the broken elbow so she'll be getting 'zapped' for that, too.

She's also a physical therapist so Odin will be going along this time as he just had another 'tremor' episode and growled when I did the usual head-up trick to stop it.

Either his Atlas or C3/C4 are bothering him again and she will adjust it.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Thanks for the link Salamander! I just checked it out. I haven't read anything yet about how well or if this will even work on a lipoma but I'm going to give it a shot. I have to deal with an ear hematoma in my girl that just popped up a couple days ago. Going to call my 2nd opinion vet on Monday and schedule for the hematoma surgery and get the laser therapy sessions started as soon as they give the ok. Glad to hear the good news about Odin and Halla. Happy Thanksgiving to all. My counter surfing dobe grabbed a mouthfull of stuffing and a roll before we could get to her. Someones Pitbull showed up at my house last year and was eating a turkey carcass out of a trash can in my garage.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:48 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I only know of laser being used for muscular injuries in racing whippets, but with great success.

If you didn't already have a diagnosis I would say that is a dropped muscle, which is a very common race dog injury. Thankfully I have never had a dog drop a muscle, but I have certainly seen many of them.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:46 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Thanks for the link Salamander! I just checked it out. I haven't read anything yet about how well or if this will even work on a lipoma but I'm going to give it a shot. I have to deal with an ear hematoma in my girl that just popped up a couple days ago. Going to call my 2nd opinion vet on Monday and schedule for the hematoma surgery and get the laser therapy sessions started as soon as they give the ok. Glad to hear the good news about Odin and Halla. Happy Thanksgiving to all. My counter surfing dobe grabbed a mouthfull of stuffing and a roll before we could get to her. Someones Pitbull showed up at my house last year and was eating a turkey carcass out of a trash can in my garage.
I really hope it helps her...
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:21 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I only know of laser being used for muscular injuries in racing whippets, but with great success.

If you didn't already have a diagnosis I would say that is a dropped muscle, which is a very common race dog injury. Thankfully I have never had a dog drop a muscle, but I have certainly seen many of them.
I've never heard of a dropped muscle but if the fine needle asp didn't show fat cells, I wouldn't think this is a lipoma. It doesn't feel like one. It's almost rock hard , like a flexed muscle and it can't be moved. I swear this thing came out of nowhere, overnight!
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:23 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Julie W, Is that where Whippets drop a muscle at?
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Burnz View Post
Julie W, Is that where Whippets drop a muscle at?
Yes, it is. They are usually more soft and squishy though. They could possibly harden afterward, I'm not sure. I have only witnessed freshly dropped muscles as once they are dropped we don't see that dog again at the track for a very long time. (If ever)


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Burnz (11-23-2012)
Old 11-23-2012, 01:36 PM   #21 (permalink)
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My girl Stormy's newest lipoma is in exactly the same spot, but not quite as large yet. She's 10. I will be very interested to see the outcome you have.
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Burnz (11-23-2012)
Old 11-23-2012, 08:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I will let you know EmilyB. That picture was from about 4-6 months ago. It may have gotten bigger since then, I can't really tell that is why I take a picture of it about once a month. I will take another picture of it tomorrow and post it from underneath and behind her. Even though if it has gotten bigger, which it might not have, she is starting to swing that leg out when she walks.
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EmilyB (11-24-2012)
Old 11-27-2012, 08:13 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I use a laser like this at work as well, however we haven't used it on lumps and bumps- but we have used it on arthritic patients, wounds, post surgical for incisions to promote healing, acl tears and it have worked nicely for my potential carpal tunnel Decent to excellent results!
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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No go on the laser for the lipoma. Like Rouleaux stated and my Vet said, they don't know if it would do anything for lumps and bumps. I hate it that this was suggested to me by my Vet last time I went to get a second opinion from them. Now I'm left with no options. I'm just going to work on getting her weight down and hope that might slow the growth..

On a good note, The prednisone that I was given for her ear hemotoma is working great. It's almost gone 7 days into starting the meds. The 3:30-4:30am trips to go out are a little rough on me but nothing I can't handle with my eyes closed the whole time.
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