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Old 11-08-2012, 09:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Dobes with Thyroid - levels and dosing

I was chatting with Deb Romans today about Syd's thyroid treatment. My vet put her on .8mcg of Levothyroxine once daily. Deb said it should be twice a day.

I have to teach my vet quite often about dobe things (he's really the best guy I've found so far so I'm pretty patient, since he's open to new stuff).

She also mentioned we want to not just be on the low side of normal but mid range.

What drug is your dobe on, what is the dosage and how often is it given?

Can you arm me with some doberman specific info I can pass along to him?

How often do you recheck levels? Do you have to run the Dodds test each time?

How long before I should see "Ole Lightning" break into a run ?

(After recovery from spay of course)
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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.7mg bid - 65-75lb male - Soloxine not Thyroxine - get it from KVvet Supply by the 1000 count bottle once you know what she should be on - takes a few months to figure it out.

I get the Dodds 5 panel test every time - get your vet to draw the blood, put into the red top tube (from memory), clot and spin it up and send it by priority mail to Dr Dodds - much cheaper (my vet charges about $20 to draw and spin the blood) and a better test.

Dr. Dodds' analysis is worthwhile and you can call her or email her to ask for clarification or ask other questions etc. Make sure you include a description of her symptoms as well with the blood. I think Dr. Dodds recommend that dobes should be higher than low normal - mid-range is better.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Chase is on .8 BID Thyro Tab. He is 4.5 years of age, 95lbs, and he gets tested every 6 months. He is slipping below normal range and has not hit mid to high range in a year, so I think its time to up the dosage or try something else.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Mojo has been taking 0.4mg of Soloxine twice daily for 6 yrs (0.8mg tab split in half). His levels get checked annually and they are always mid range.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Ivan is ~82 lbs. and on .8mg Thyrozine twice daily. He's going in for his first recheck on Saturday. Not sure if they'll do the full panel again or not. Once Ivan is stablized I need to shop around and see where the best place is to buy the stuff. I already know 1-800-PetMeds is half the price of my vet.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:01 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Zeus is on 1mg of Soloxine bid. 0.8 mg was original dose, and his numbers only barely increased then leveled out. He has been on 1mg for quite a few months and still not where he needs to be, although he has improved and his symptoms have improved quite a bit.

Vet said now that he's on 1mg, to only have it checked every 6 months.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Shanoa is just about to turn 4 years old. She was borderline low when initially diagnosed (only symptom was hair loss on her ears). We have her on this product: Pala-Tech Thyroid: Levothyroxine Chewable - Canine Chewable Tabs. It's chewable levothyroxine. She gets a .6 mg tablet twice per day. From what I understand, dogs in general (not just Dobermans) metabolize thyroid drugs differently than people, and typically need to be medicated twice per day.

We aim for mid-range with her. She initially was rechecked after something like 2 months? I can't remember exactly, it's been a while. Now I run a panel once per year to recheck her. I think Dr. Dodds test is cheaper than many vets, so it's easy to do it that way. Shanoa's been on the same dose since we started and is very stable on it.

I can't speak to a change in energy since Shanoa didn't have any issues there. It did take a while for her hair to grow back, though!
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsR4Life View Post
Chase is on .8 BID Thyro Tab. He is 4.5 years of age, 95lbs, and he gets tested every 6 months. He is slipping below normal range and has not hit mid to high range in a year, so I think its time to up the dosage or try something else.
Soloxine has better quality control on their product than Thyroxine which is why Dr. Dodds recommends it, and it only.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks MC for mentioning the difference in the human metabolization of thyroid drugs. I am on Levo and was starting to wonder why it was only once a day.

Looks like Syd's meds should be upped and I'll talk to the vet today.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Soloxine has better quality control on their product than Thyroxine which is why Dr. Dodds recommends it, and it only.
What I am finding online is that they are the same thing, just that Levo is the generic version. Is this the quality control issue?

Discount Soloxine (levothyroxine, thyroxine, thyrozine, thyrosyn) Thyroid Medication For Dogs

I only ever use generic drugs myself, lol!
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Indy is on .8mg Soloxine every 12 hours. Blood draw every 6 mos.


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Old 11-10-2012, 01:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivienne00 View Post
.7mg bid - 65-75lb male - Soloxine not Thyroxine - get it from KVvet Supply by the 1000 count bottle once you know what she should be on - takes a few months to figure it out.

I get the Dodds 5 panel test every time - get your vet to draw the blood, put into the red top tube (from memory), clot and spin it up and send it by priority mail to Dr Dodds - much cheaper (my vet charges about $20 to draw and spin the blood) and a better test.

Dr. Dodds' analysis is worthwhile and you can call her or email her to ask for clarification or ask other questions etc. Make sure you include a description of her symptoms as well with the blood. I think Dr. Dodds recommend that dobes should be higher than low normal - mid-range is better.
Do you have any thoughts on the quality of Dr. Dodds test vs MSU?
Our girl is due for her annual panel.

Also any opinion on giving w/food vs. not?
I seem to notice a difference (improvement?) in our girl more so when giving her soloxine on an empty stomach vs. what our vet told us to give w/food.
Nina gets .5 2 per day.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:31 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q734 View Post
Do you have any thoughts on the quality of Dr. Dodds test vs MSU?
Our girl is due for her annual panel.

Also any opinion on giving w/food vs. not?
I seem to notice a difference (improvement?) in our girl more so when giving her soloxine on an empty stomach vs. what our vet told us to give w/food.
Nina gets .5 2 per day.

Any of the testing labs who qualify for OFFA inclusion are very reliable. There are labs that can't do some of the tests for the "genetic" stuff (TgAA is the only one I can think of offhand but TSH is another--almost all the labs do that one). I've had dogs tested by MSU, Antech and IDEXX (all acceptable for OFFA inclusion. Dr Dodds used to have all of her test done by Antech it's only in the last couple of years that she has had the equipment to do her own testing in house.

The most recent recommendation is to medicate on an empty stomach but the owner of the clinic where I work says that complaince means more than whether the drug is administered empty stomach or with food. If you can remember to give the dog the drugs on an empty stomach (1 hour before feeding or three hours after) that's great and will probably give best effect but if you can remember to give it with their breakfasts and dinners so that they get it every day do that.

I've had many dogs on thyroid meds. Some have done fine on generic thyroxine--some haven't. Presently I have a 9.5 year old neutered male on 6.5 mg of soloxine twice a day with meals and a 7 year old male on 1.0 mg of soloxine twice a day with meals.

The best correction I ever got was when I tried out a liquid (can't even remember who made it now on a dog who was very hard to keep regulated--you could fine tune the liquid for best adjustment.

I test at two--full panel and then yearly unless a dog gets symptomatic--then I retest immediately. Retests are just T4. If the levels drop to low normal or below I retest T4 and free T4 by ED) and start meds as appropriate. I retest T4 after 6 weeks and adjust if necessary. After that I retest any dog on meds every six months. I test only T4 unless it's getting hard to keep the dog in mid range. The first test at two years gives me something of a guide line to what is a normal number for that particular dog.

If you have a hard time regulating the dogs levels I'd always use soloxine.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Dr. Dodds has a thyroid book out that's great, you can get it on Dog Wise.

KC wasn't responding very well to the thyroid medication, and I contacted Dr. Dodd. She told me that Thyroid medicine needs to be given on an empty stomach because it binds to calcium. I made that one change to KC's program, and now his blood tests come back with the counts the vet is looking for.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Dr. Dodds has a thyroid book out that's great, you can get it on Dog Wise.

KC wasn't responding very well to the thyroid medication, and I contacted Dr. Dodd. She told me that Thyroid medicine needs to be given on an empty stomach because it binds to calcium. I made that one change to KC's program, and now his blood tests come back with the counts the vet is looking for.
There are times when it appears our girl has been given a new script w/the empty stomach switch. She has been gaining weight tho, not sure if it's the Orijen or if she needs her dose raised- will report on that soon as am not looking forward to raising her dose.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:44 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Soloxine has better quality control on their product than Thyroxine which is why Dr. Dodds recommends it, and it only.
I asked my previous vet if I could use soloxine and he said he could not order it for me. Is it available in Canada? I'll have to ask my current vet.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
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There are times when it appears our girl has been given a new script w/the empty stomach switch. She has been gaining weight tho, not sure if it's the Orijen or if she needs her dose raised- will report on that soon as am not looking forward to raising her dose.
Perhaps she does need a higher dosage. KC weighed 131lbs (he is a Fraken-Dobie, standing about 31.5 inches tall); he dropped to about 125lbs initially, and then when we made the change that Dr. Dodd's recommended, he dropped to 111lbs with no change in diet. I've also noticed a huge increase in his energy level and just a much more animated attitude. It's great to see. Dr. Dodd has other information in her book and you can get an eBook copy for $10.00, the link is below if you're interested.

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I know Orijen is a super dense food, is it possible that she's getting too many calories? I feed California Natural, Limited Ingredients. KC gets 1.25 cups twice a day, one sardine 3 times a week, fish oil, and of course some all meat or lowfat string cheese as training treats. I also give them 1/4 of the recommended dosage of an all food fortifier.

Good luck with your girl!
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Interesting to see what everyone else is doing.

My guy is now 4 yrs or so. He was diagnosed during a wellness test when I got him initially. Then we did a thyroid panel just to be sure. His energy level did seem to increase when we got him in the low normal range ( this could be a coincidence since he was a rescue and could have just been because he was more comfortable with us)
My vet prefers to do pre and post T4 yearly to monitor how he is doing.
Is anyone else doing these?
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:28 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I take KC in about every 4 - 5 months for a full thryoid panel. My vet tells me I do not need to do this, that yearly would be fine.

However, I just feel better staying on top of this, he's 7 years old, and I want to keep him around a lot longer.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:44 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Interesting to see what everyone else is doing.

My guy is now 4 yrs or so. He was diagnosed during a wellness test when I got him initially. Then we did a thyroid panel just to be sure. His energy level did seem to increase when we got him in the low normal range ( this could be a coincidence since he was a rescue and could have just been because he was more comfortable with us)
My vet prefers to do pre and post T4 yearly to monitor how he is doing.
Is anyone else doing these?
Huh? Pre and post what? T4.

I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying here...you got your dog and in a normal wellness test (complete blood panel maybe?) he was found to be hypothyroid? Then he was retested with a complete thyroid panel and was started on thyroid medication?

Is that right? Medication got him to low normal?

I said in an earlier post in this thread that when we start any of my dogs on thyroid meds on the basis of a test showing low thyroid levels we always test after they have been on the meds for 4 to 6 weeks to make sure that they are getting proper dosage. Is that what you mean by pre and post T4?

Unless the meds need to be adjusted I would not retest (and I routinely test any dog of mine on thyroid meds every six months--having found that once a year isn't often enough to keep the levels where they should be--particularly older dogs tend to continue to decline and often need to have meds adjusted).

Not sure what pre and post testing would do if the dog didn't have a medication adjustment.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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On Thyroxine .5 for 2 years....now poor thin coat again

I rescued my guy 2 years ago...was diagnosed and put on .5 mcg of Thyroxine ...his coat improved remarkably (was very thin with little bumps and very coarse). We test every 6 months and he is in the mid range but last few months his coat has gotten very thin again...with little bumps on his forehead and chest. We are going to the vet next week and wanted some thoughts. I read about the Soloxine....am wondering if he is in the mid range again is there a possible quality control problem. Who is Dr. Dodd? Thanks
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Huh? Pre and post what? T4.

I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying here...you got your dog and in a normal wellness test (complete blood panel maybe?) he was found to be hypothyroid? Then he was retested with a complete thyroid panel and was started on thyroid medication?

Is that right? Medication got him to low normal?

I said in an earlier post in this thread that when we start any of my dogs on thyroid meds on the basis of a test showing low thyroid levels we always test after they have been on the meds for 4 to 6 weeks to make sure that they are getting proper dosage. Is that what you mean by pre and post T4?

Unless the meds need to be adjusted I would not retest (and I routinely test any dog of mine on thyroid meds every six months--having found that once a year isn't often enough to keep the levels where they should be--particularly older dogs tend to continue to decline and often need to have meds adjusted).

Not sure what pre and post testing would do if the dog didn't have a medication adjustment.
I think what was meant was (depending on the laboratory used of course) a laboratory evaluated CBC and Chemistry comes standard with all wellness blood tests and does a full function check including T4 levels.

The only reason I would think a T4 would be sent out by itself would be to double check the levels to be sure that whatever the result was in fact was conclusive to the disease.

I have heard of a pre and post panel, but have never seen one run. Would you test pre medicating and post medicating to see if medication needs to be adjusted?

Otherwise, testing every six months is crucial to being sure the medication is working properly.

I guess you can say I just chimed in...
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:34 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Thyroid Testing

Syd just had her follow up and she is good to go and is running.....lol...
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:46 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I rescued my guy 2 years ago...was diagnosed and put on .5 mcg of Thyroxine ...his coat improved remarkably (was very thin with little bumps and very coarse). We test every 6 months and he is in the mid range but last few months his coat has gotten very thin again...with little bumps on his forehead and chest. We are going to the vet next week and wanted some thoughts. I read about the Soloxine....am wondering if he is in the mid range again is there a possible quality control problem. Who is Dr. Dodd? Thanks
Dr Jean Dodds is a well know veteriarian who has done several specialized studies and has Hemopet. You can look her up online. On phone and can't give link, sorry.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Do you have any thoughts on the quality of Dr. Dodds test vs MSU?
Our girl is due for her annual panel.

Also any opinion on giving w/food vs. not?
I seem to notice a difference (improvement?) in our girl more so when giving her soloxine on an empty stomach vs. what our vet told us to give w/food.

Nina gets .5 2 per day.
I know this thread is older, but I didn't see this had been addressed (appologised if it has I'm on my phone).

We give our medication at least 1 hour before food or 3 hours after, and shouldn't be fed with anything like meat or cheese to make the pill go down easier we put it inside a green bean or feed on its own. Rupert is on .5mg soloxine twice a day and will be retested with Dr.Dodds again in 6 weeks time.
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