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Old 10-29-2012, 02:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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study on duration of immunity after vaccines

here is a study on duration of immunity after vaccines. Up to 15 years!
One is not surprised that vaccine companies do not want us to know!!!




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Old 10-29-2012, 03:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I would include Vets for not pushing our lawmakers to change laws that stop the excessive vaccinations!
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Ronald D. Schultz, Professor and Chair

Department of Patho-biological Sciences
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin-Madison


It has been common practice since the development of canine vaccines in the late 1950′s to administer them annually. The recommendation to vaccinate annually was based on the assumption that immunity would wane in some dogs, thus to ensure immunity in the population, all dogs required revaccination since it was not practical to test each animal for antibody. Little or no research has been done to demonstrate that the practice of annual revaccination has any scientific value in providing greater immunity than would be present if an animal was never revaccinated or was revaccinated at intervals longer than one year.

In 1978 we recommended an ideal vaccination program would be one in which dogs and cats would be revaccinated at one year of age and then every third year thereafter (1). That recommendation was based on a general knowledge of vaccinal immunity, especially the importance of immunologic memory and on duration of protection after natural sub clinical or clinical infections as well as on limited studies we had performed with certain canine and feline vaccines.

Since the mid 1970′s we have done a variety of studies with various canine vaccines to demonstrate their duration of immunity. From our studies it is apparent, at least to me, that the duration of immunity for the four most important canine vaccines (core vaccines) that the duration of immunity is considerably longer than one year.

Furthermore, we have found that annual revaccination, with the vaccines that provide long term immunity, provides no demonstrable benefit and may increase the risk for adverse reactions. We have assessed duration of protective immunity primarily by two procedures; the first is held to be the “gold standard and that is to challenge the vaccinated animal with the virulent organism, the second method is to measure antibody and compare the antibody titer to that which is known to prevent infection (e.g. provide sterile immunity). The studies we report here include challenge studies as well as studies that determine antibody titers.

A summary of our results show the following (Table 1).


Table 1: Minimum Duration of Immunity for Canine Vaccines
Vaccine Minimum Duration of Immunity Methods Used to Determine Immunity
CORE VACCINES
Canine Distemper Virus (CDV
Rockbom Strain 7 yrs / 15 yrs challenge / serology
Onderstepoort Strain 5 yrs / 9 yrs challenge / serology
Canine Adenovirus-2 (CAV-2) 7 yrs / 9 yrs challenge-CAV-1 / serology
Canine Parvovirus-2 (CAV-2) 7 yrs challenge / serology
Canine Rabies 3 yrs / 7yrs challenge / serology
NON-CORE VACCINES
Canine parainfluenza 3 yrs. serology
Bordetella bronchiseptica 9 months challenge
Leptospira interrogans ser. canicola ?
Leptospira icterohaemorrhagiac ?
Borrelia burgdorfen 1 yr. challenge
Giardia ?
Canine Coronavirus Lifetime (whether
vaccinated or not
vaccinated) Challenge / serology



The minimum duration of immunity data does not imply that all vaccinated dogs will be immune for the period of time listed, nor does it suggest that immunity may not last longer (e.g. the life of the dog). The percentage of vaccinated animals protected from clinical disease after challenge with canine distemper virus, canine parvovirus and canine adenovirus in the present study was greater than 95%.

Although there is much more that we need to know about duration of immunity to canine vaccines the information we have at present provides adequate justification for the vaccination recommendations that I and others have made and continue to make regarding frequency of vaccination (2)

1. Schultz, RD. and F.W. Scott. Canine & Feline Immunization. In: Symposium on Practical Immunology. R.D. Schultz, Ed., Vet Clinics of N. Am., Nov. 1978, W.B. Saunders Co.

2. Schultz, R.D. Current and Future Canine and feline vaccination programs. Vet Med 3: No. 3, 233-254, 1998.

Study on Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines Dr. Dobias Healing Solutions
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
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So does this mean they only need Bordetella and Lepto yearly or what? I have been getting the standard shots each year. I would like to know the three-schedule and what needs to be given yearly. How about Lyme?

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Old 01-24-2013, 11:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I am very interested in this also as Baron goes to his new vet tomorrow. This year he is only due for his Rabies vaccine but want to be armed to have him do a titer for next time.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
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My veterinarian has lectured on how vaccines are over administered. He's been doing his own mini-study with his dog doing titres.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I want to talk with the new vet about the Lepto shot because we live way out in the country with the back of our property boardering 4,000+ acres of game lands. He isn't due this year anyway but just want to be prepared. This new vet is going to think I am a crazy lady because I have all his files from our regular vet, the cardiologist, the dermatologist and also some information on when Baron needs his next bloodwork done. I want them to do Troponin ratios because of his heart and have been reading alot about the correlation with this regarding DCM. Looking forward to the new vet and hoping we like him and the clinic we chose. Had lots of good references. Hated leaving our other vet because he was the one who told us Baron was available but he is up in age and only working part time and I am sure at some point soon he will retire full time.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I tend to vaccinate fully as puppies, then take a pretty conservative approach for vaccinating the adults. I am lucky in that my vet is fully supportive of this.

I think within the next few years we will go to a 5 year protocol.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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We do puppy vaccines, then one year old vaccines then after that the core vacs (DHPPi) every 3 years and lepto every year. Every one of my local vets still recommend yearly vaccinations however, even for my hypothyroid boy.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Sabrina just had the DHPP shot this past Monday. Her vet said to do it since it's been 3 years. I think I may not ever give her that shot again, just the bordatella, lepto and Rabies.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
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So does this mean they only need Bordetella and Lepto yearly or what? I have been getting the standard shots each year. I would like to know the three-schedule and what needs to be given yearly. How about Lyme?

Thanks,

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They surely don't need standard shots yearly. And if my vet recommended them still, I'd honestly be going to a new vet. Lepto and bordatella - that's not as clear cut I don't think. I don't give them at all myself at my vet's recommendation. I'm not in a high tick area so don't do lyme but might if I was.

Gabby was 9 at her last eval and due for all her shots. We agreed to just give rabies (just in case for state law more than anything else) but she won't ever get anymore and I plan on her living until 15
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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My Vet told me one time that Indiana has a lot of Lepto in the area. I am for shots every three years instead of yearly but I don't know which ones. I know I would have to give rabies every year because of state law.

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Old 01-24-2013, 04:47 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Double check but this says every 3 years for Indiana

http://vaccines.dogsadversereactions...RabiesLaws.pdf

I use the vet school guidelines in my state and am lucky my vet is for minimal vaccines. I give a series of 3 puppy shots DHPP then nothing for 3 years. Rabies they get at 4-6 months (due by 4 months by law but I wait), 1 year then every 3 years. That's all mine get. But do what works for you and you dog
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:57 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Double check but this says every 3 years for Indiana

http://vaccines.dogsadversereactions...RabiesLaws.pdf

I use the vet school guidelines in my state and am lucky my vet is for minimal vaccines. I give a series of 3 puppy shots DHPP then nothing for 3 years. Rabies they get at 4-6 months (due by 4 months by law but I wait), 1 year then every 3 years. That's all mine get. But do what works for you and you dog

I saw 3 months for dogs but nothing else. Did I miss something?

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Old 01-24-2013, 05:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I saw 3 months for dogs but nothing else. Did I miss something?

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That is the age it is first required. Look to the left by the state it will say triennially or annually. I only saw 2 states at a glance that as annual (Alabama and Arkansas I think). It's to the left of the box that shows 3 months.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I see that: Triennially.

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Old 01-24-2013, 05:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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14. INDIANA RABIES LAWS (NO medical exemption) -- Indiana Code IC 15-17-6 Chapter 6 Rabies http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/cod...5/ar17/ch6.pdf
IC 15-17-6-1 (2)(a) The vaccinated animal must be identified as vaccinated according to rules adopted by the board. (See State Board of Animal Health Rule below pertaining to rabies immunization.)

Indiana State Board of Animal Health Rule 5 Rabies Immunization, 345 IAC 1-5-1 Rabies Vaccination http://www.in.gov/boah/files/rabiesrule20061.pdf
BOAH: Rabies Information
Rabies is a deadly disease caused by a virus that can infect humans, pets, livestock and wildlife. Preventing the disease in animals provides the best means of protection to humans.
Under Indiana law, all dogs, cats and ferrets older than 3 months of age must be vaccinated against the rabies virus. State law allows the use of 1-year and 3-year vaccines according to approved label directions. (NOTE: Some localities throughout the state may have stricter local laws.) The vaccine must be administered by a licensed and accredited veterinarian only.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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In 1978 we recommended an ideal vaccination program would be one in which dogs and cats would be revaccinated at one year of age and then every third year thereafter (1). That recommendation was based on a general knowledge of vaccinal immunity, especially the importance of immunologic memory and on duration of protection after natural sub clinical or clinical infections as well as on limited studies we had performed with certain canine and feline vaccines.

Since the mid 1970′s we have done a variety of studies with various canine vaccines to demonstrate their duration of immunity. From our studies it is apparent, at least to me, that the duration of immunity for the four most important canine vaccines (core vaccines) that the duration of immunity is considerably longer than one year.


So since the 70's Dr. Schultz has recomended this protocol. I guess the Vet. schools, and Vaccine Manufact., and Vets did not want to follow his findings.

Furthermore, we have found that annual revaccination, with the vaccines that provide long term immunity, provides no demonstrable benefit and may increase the risk for adverse reactions.

I wish they would have gone into more depth on the adverse reactions. Like
causing a lot of Allergies, Auto Immune Diseases, IBS, Cancers and others by over vaccinating.

Bottom line on Vaccinations. After puppy core vaccinations. Then the 1 yr boosters. Then not vaccinating for at least 3yrs. or more (depending on the Titer). Evern if a Titer shows a low number (depending on how a lab tests for the antibodies) doesn't mean your pet is not protected. There is Cell Mediated Immunity (which there is no test for). If your pet is exposed to a disease it will tell the Immune System to start making antibodies for that disease.
I would not get the Bordatella. Its only like the human cold.
Lepto If you live in an area with a lot of wild life I would probably get it.
Even if your Vets are not up on the new studies and protocols they should follow what you want best for your pets.
Hopefully they will change the 3yr Rabbies to 5-7 years. Or even better accept a Titer.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Mine don't come around untill September for shots, but I am hoping somone tells me what is best for my pets. Because Lepto is heavy here I think I will get that one and the rabies. You cannot board, if needed, without Bordetella. What else, anything?

Thanks,

Scoob
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Mine don't come around untill September for shots, but I am hoping somone tells me what is best for my pets. Because Lepto is heavy here I think I will get that one and the rabies. You cannot board, if needed, without Bordetella. What else, anything?

Thanks,

Scoob
Both of our dobes received the Bordetella Vaccine when they were puppies and still got Kennel Cough!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe ask the boarding place make up a waiver for you? They should start getting informed about Vaccines!


Kennel Cough Vaccine Exposed

By Dr. Peter Dobias




Holistic approach to kennel cough prevention

I have a question for you? Would you vaccinate a 16-year-old dog, with heart disease and recent diagnosis of a malignant lump?

Just until few days ago, I thought that no veterinarian would. However, my bubble was bursted during a phone call with my friend from London. She asked me if I could help with her 16 year old Jack Russell Rocky, because he was recently diagnosed with a mast cell tumor. As I was collecting the medical history, we started talking about vaccines. I only asked casually because I assumed that no vet would vaccinate a senior dog. I was wrong.

The news that Rocky has been vaccinated yearly hit me like a ton of bricks because the vaccine label say that animals that are ill should not be vaccinated. After few seconds of disbelief I decided to write this article because obviously, the discussion must go on.

Over the years, I have witnessed many people having a very unreasonable fear of Kennel cough mainly due to fear based advertising that kennel cough is some sort of horrible disease while even the Merck Veterinary manual says that:


Kennel cough is a mild self-limiting disease that results in inflammation of the upper airways transmitted by air…This condition would rarely lead to complications or death…

“Infectious tracheobronchitis is a mild self-limiting disease that results in inflammation of the upper airways transmitted by air and caused possibly but not surely by several different viruses, mainly Parainfluenza virus and also by a bacteria – Bordetella Bronchiseptica, however, the exact cause may vary.”

The Merck Veterinary Manual also states that:

“This condition would rarely lead to complications or death only in animals with a weakened immune system. In summary, Kennel cough is not much different than a cold that most of us catch from time to time and cure by rest and tea.”

Despite the fact that kennel cough is nothing more than a dog version of cold, most boarding facilities, daycares, training centers and grooming facilities request kennel cough vaccine. They often mean well but they are mainly frightened of being held liable for a dog getting kennel cough.

Books are theory but how about real life veterinary practice? In more than 20 years in clinical practice, I have not seen one single dog succumbing to kennel cough and as the Merck manual says, most dogs recover on their own without they use of any antibiotics. The risk of dog of dying of kennel cough is not any different that of a person dying of a common cold or flu.

More than 15 years back, I too used to use Kennel Cough vaccine because I didn’t know any better. I remember seeing absolutely healthy dogs getting kennel cough vaccine and coming back a few days later with actual symptoms of the disease. When I called the vaccine rep, he response was that these dogs must had been exposed prior to vaccination. Later realized that the live modified vaccine was the likely reason. For your interest, this is what the British medical safety data sheet for Nobivac KC vaccine states:

“Contra-indications, warnings: Particularly in very young susceptible puppies, mild discharges from the eyes and nose can occur from the day after vaccination, sometimes accompanied by sneezing and coughing. Signs are generally transient, but in occasional cases may persist for up to four weeks. In animals, which show more severe signs, appropriate antibiotic treatment may be indicated.

To me, this statement clearly says that the vaccine can cause the disease.

A few practical suggestions what to do

DAY CARE, DOG WALKING, GROOMING, BOARDING AND TRAINING FACILITY

1. If you are an owner of a boarding, grooming or daycare facility you are likely concerned about liability.

2. I suggest you creating a simple waiver that your clients can sign at the time of the admission.

3. Stop requesting kennel cough vaccine because by doing so, you may be spreading kennel cough itself.

4. Ensure good hygiene and air quality in your facility

5. Avoid overcrowding and strive to create a happy and relaxed atmosphere in your facility

6. Download and print a copy of this article for your clients to read to educate them here

FOR DOG GUARDIANS
1.Remember that the Merck Veterinary Manual says that Kennel Cough is a mild self-limiting disease.
2.Avoid Kennel Cough vaccination if possible no matter what age your dog is.
3.If a service provider you use requests a Kennel Cough vaccine, share with them this information and be willing to sign a waiver
4.Make sure that your dog’s immune system is in top-notch condition. The best way to achieve this is to feed high quality all natural raw food and adding essential supplements to make your dogs immune system stronger
5.Avoid carbohydrate based and processed foods, milk products, and wheat that can compromise the immune system
6.Look for well aired clean facilities that are not overcrowded and your dog likes to visit.
7.You can also supplement your dogs diet by this medicinal mushroom formula during the period of boarding


Dr. Peter Dobias, DVM

PS: If you are looking for my general recommendation about vaccination, click here
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:58 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stryker2 View Post
Both of our dobes received the Bordetella Vaccine when they were puppies and still got Kennel Cough!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe ask the boarding place make up a waiver for you? They should start getting informed

A few practical suggestions what to do

DAY CARE, DOG WALKING, GROOMING, BOARDING AND TRAINING FACILITY

1. If you are an owner of a boarding, grooming or daycare facility you are likely concerned about liability.

2. I suggest you creating a simple waiver that your clients can sign at the time of the admission.

3. Stop requesting kennel cough vaccine because by doing so, you may be spreading kennel cough itself.

4. Ensure good hygiene and air quality in your facility

5. Avoid overcrowding and strive to create a happy and relaxed atmosphere in your facility

6. Download and print a copy of this article for your clients to read to educate them here

FOR DOG GUARDIANS
1.Remember that the Merck Veterinary Manual says that Kennel Cough is a mild self-limiting disease.
2.Avoid Kennel Cough vaccination if possible no matter what age your dog is.
3.If a service provider you use requests a Kennel Cough vaccine, share with them this information and be willing to sign a waiver
4.Make sure that your dog’s immune system is in top-notch condition. The best way to achieve this is to feed high quality all natural raw food and adding essential supplements to make your dogs immune system stronger
5.Avoid carbohydrate based and processed foods, milk products, and wheat that can compromise the immune system
6.Look for well aired clean facilities that are not overcrowded and your dog likes to visit.
7.You can also supplement your dogs diet by this medicinal mushroom formula during the period of boarding


Dr. Peter Dobias, DVM

PS: If you are looking for my general recommendation about vaccination, click here


I own a home boarding, doggy day care, dog walking business.
I used to insist on Kennel Cough for all dogs in my care but soon came to realise that nearly all dogs who had the vaccine then got a mild dose of the illness shortly after.

Unfortunately here in the UK boarding licences insist that all dogs in my care must have annual vaccinations and I have to keep strict records as proof of this. No dog can board with me unless I keep a hold of the vaccination certificates whilst they are boarding and take a copy for future reference.

I made the decision early last year not to continue annual vaccinations for my own dogs and I don't want to insist on clients dogs having them either.
Unfortunately having a waiver would not help.
It's the Council that is the stumbling block.

I am probably in breach of my licence by not having my dogs boosters done.

I really appreciate your information and will print and pass on to all my clients and will try using the waiver as a back up.
But vets in the UK aren't willing to listen or change. Not the ones I have seen anyway.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:02 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Dobes View Post
I own a home boarding, doggy day care, dog walking business.
I used to insist on Kennel Cough for all dogs in my care but soon came to realise that nearly all dogs who had the vaccine then got a mild dose of the illness shortly after.

Unfortunately here in the UK boarding licences insist that all dogs in my care must have annual vaccinations and I have to keep strict records as proof of this. No dog can board with me unless I keep a hold of the vaccination certificates whilst they are boarding and take a copy for future reference.

I made the decision early last year not to continue annual vaccinations for my own dogs and I don't want to insist on clients dogs having them either.
Unfortunately having a waiver would not help.
It's the Council that is the stumbling block.

I am probably in breach of my licence by not having my dogs boosters done.

I really appreciate your information and will print and pass on to all my clients and will try using the waiver as a back up.
But vets in the UK aren't willing to listen or change. Not the ones I have seen anyway.
That's too bad they are not up for change. Some places in the U.S. will do the waiver and accept a Titer Test. For the most part I don't think they want to get sued!
Also for great info whatch this video on Youtube. Its 53min long of Dr. Karen Becker interviewing Dr. Ronald Schultz, Phd. He has over 30yrs research in Vaccines.

Dr. Karen Becker and Dr. Ronald Schultz on Pet Vaccines - YouTube
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:16 AM   #23 (permalink)
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My GSD had his last distemper/parvo vaccine at age three and yearly titers until age 11 showed adaquate immunity. I stopped testing at that point because I wouldn't have vaccinated him at that age regardless of what the results indicated. I suspect he was still covered when he passed at 13. He did get Rabies every three years, as required by law.

Mason was due for his first "booster" earlier this month, but I decided to titer instead and he does have immunity. We skipped the DHPP, but he got his 3 year rabies and bordetella as he's exposed to kennel cough daily. I'm considering lepto and lyme closer to spring.
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