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Old 05-05-2012, 02:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Allergies

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has any insight for me and my Benny. When I first got him about 11 months ago, he had a bad skin infection involving pustules resembling cystic acne on the upper side of his whole back. Antibiotics and prednisone cured this for a while. It has been recurring for the past 2 months now again. I'm trying to figure out what it is, certain beef product may contribute and a skin supplement called dream coat triggered the outbreak 2 months ago. He is back on prednisone, antibiotics and benedryl. Benedryl on its own will help minimize the hives/ pustules but once I stop it they will flare up again. I've looked into dermatologists in michigan and will make an apt. The problem is they can't do testing if they have had steroids in te past 30 days, and no antibiotics or antihistamines for 2 weeks. He is a 3-4 year old neutered male blue dobe. Coat in general pretty good since starting him on melatonin a while back on advice of vet. He is on taste of the wild pacifica/ fish formula. Anyone else had a similar experience, or been to see an allergy/ dermotology specialist? I'm concerned about having him on the benedryl, prednisone and antibiotics so often. The prednisone seemed to cause him to have delayed urination when he initially lifts his leg.
Thanks for the help,
Benny and mom
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Old 05-05-2012, 07:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Please provide information on what food (brand, protein source, grain, etc), treats, supplements, etc. It's helpful if we know everything he consumes. Also, what tick and flea treatment does he receive? Thanks.
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:01 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Blues do have skin problems. What you need to do is find the cause. All the meds are just masking and not curing it.
Also I would not over Vaccinate your dog. Get Titer test.

Very good info on care of Blue Dobes
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I am not sure about the problems you are having, but I must say if I were you I would get off the prednisone (try to) as soon as possible. My dog's itching was only fixed by prednisone, and after being on it for a couple months, he became lethargic, thin, wanted to sleep all day, skin never had the chance to heal, and he lost a ton a muscle mass. Even now, his muscle mass is nothing of what it used to be, and he tires up much easier than he used to. I've heard from someone else on the forum that their dog never recovered 100% from being on prednisone for a long time.

Again I would urge you to taper off the pred completely before your dog starts showing other side effects from it.

If it is allergies, you can give 1 25mg pill per 25lbs of body weight every 12 hours I believe. You can also feed sardines (in water or tomato sauce) rinsed and drained twice a day before meals. If he is on a fish oil supplement (or even sardines), I would also give him Vitamin E, as the fish oil depletes this.

Has he been tested for hypothyroid? He is right about the age that some dobes show it. This would cause him to have skin infections, etc.

Something else natural to try would be adding Bragg's apple cider vinegar to either the dogs food or water bowl. This helps with allergies and I believe fighting off infections as well.

Good luck with it all, skin problems are the worst!
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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There is a wealth of information here: Error

Don't know why it says error, this info shows up. When you get thru, back out and just put in "dog allergies" and it will pull up three types of allergies to choose from. Dr Beckers site is great. Loaded with sooooo much information to help with different types of allergies.

I found sardines the best to help my boy last year when he was itching badly. They work in three days to reduce itching. Use either water or tomato packed, rinse and drain them a couple of times to remove salt. I would feed two in the morning before breakfast(feeding before meals stops fishy breath) and the remaining two before evening meal. He was itching horribly and in three days his itching was reduced greatly. I didn't have to do anything else for itching. Found out at Thanksgiving, my neighbor was giving him a dog biscuit every morning that contained a lot of ingredients he is allergic to....UGH!!! After his itching was under control, I could maintain him on two sardines before his morning meal.

I have just started using cold pressed organic extra virgin coconut oil, so have cut back sardines to one a day. Sardines are just a great food.. "Sardines, a Super Hero Food for Dogs" http://www.caninechronicle.com/Featu...ansey_509.html

You need to get his thyroid tested as lots of dilute dobermans have low thyroid and this can cause skin problems. Here is some information on thyroid testing. http://www.hemopet.org/services.html
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If the Dream Coat caused a problem, I would suspect a wheat issue. Dogs with severe wheat intolerance can react to very minute quantities of wheat... a nibble of a cracker, a couple of noodles, etc. Have you gone through all of your dogs treats and extras to make sure wheat isn't listed, even very far down on the ingredient list?
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:00 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Thought I would add, for my dogs allergies I tried Taste of the wild Pacifica like your dog is on, and his skin got considerably worse. He acted as if he was allergic to something in it, but it was a grain free fish food so I did not think of it.

He now uses both Evo and California Natural's grain free fish foods without problems, but will immediately react to the TOTW. Could be something to do with ratios or who knows, but it may be worth a shot to try a different food.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
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HI all, thanks for the replies and sorry mine is delayed, was away for the weekend. First of all, to answer the questions...
-He has been tested for thyroid (twice)and extensive blood work has all come back normal.
He has only been on prednisone 2 times in the past year, only for 10 days each time. I hate to have him on any meds, but his hives develop into a skin infection that needs treatment regardless of how much I dislike what works. He has a sensitivity to any other antiinflammatory (deremaxx, remedyl, etc-leads to upset stomach and diarrhea, occasional vomit)
-I'm going to try to swap him off the TOTW salmon , which to the person who asked what the food was-it's a grain free, high quality fish/salmon based food. I'll spend the day at the dog store scouting new foods after doing my research.
-I've never heard of the sardines, I'm looking forward to giving it a try! He's not a constant scratcher or itchy all the time, it's more the skin pustules that develop that are problematic and lead to having to dive into prednisone and antibiotics with benedryl to remedy the issue.
I'm questioning if it's seasonal as well since I adopted him in june of last year. His skin was heavily infected when I took him from the rescue. The benedryl helps but as soon as it's stopped (and even sometimes during) it only works so well.
Has anyone ever had allergy testing done with them? I'm going to have to have him off the pred for a month prior, and no antibiotics or benedryl for 2 weeks prior to apt...so heres' to hoping. have to wait until his current infection is fixed. The drinking and frequent potty breaks are not fun for either of us in the middle of the night lol!!
I've had everyone stop giving him any treats at all, no bones or biscuits of any kind. Am trying to minimize any potential allergic substances..he will get some kibble as treats only and with training. He get's a blob of canned grain free salmon to hide his meds in. wheat is a definite possibility as well.
He's also on digestive enzymes, omega pill, glucosamine and melatonin on a daily basis. probiotics when he's on any antibiotics as well.
Just wondering if anyone has had allergy testing done, is it via blood or skin biopsy? Not sure what to expect other than a large bill lol. Worth it for his comfort and my sanity though. The first apt is supposed to be 2-3 hours depending on what testing is being done.
THanks for all the help, I'm going sardine hunting today and will look into trying a new food too. Think that answers all the questions asked...any other input is appreciated as always. Have to post a pic of my boy when I get in from work! He's the most ornery and affectionate guy lol.
Thanks alot!
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:12 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I disagree with everyone on TOTW fish being high quality food. It just makes sense to me that for the price TOTW sells for, the ingredients cant be quality. The highest quality kibble you can buy is Orijen 6Fish. It is kinda expensive, but is practically all fish.///// Dont waste your money on blood tests, go with the skin tests. /////Was the thryroid test a full panel. Also, I think dobermans need supplimenting if thyroid is in low range, but am only repeating what I've read on forum as never had a low thyroid doberman. If your dog has allergies, that I help with. Go to this site and put in "dog allergies" in the search and it will pull up enough to keep you reading all day. It is the most helpful information I have ever seen in one place. Noticed the link I left wasnt working today. Also, if you give fish oil, you must give vitamin E as fish oil depletes the body of vit E. Dont give olive oil if giving sardines or fish oil as o oil competes with DHA/EPA for uptake in the body. Natural Health Information Articles and Health Newsletter by Dr. Joseph Mercola
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Old 05-07-2012, 04:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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ask your vet about vanectyl-p vs prednisone...
I just had my girl tested for environmental allergies & have started her on immuno-therapy. We have also changed her to a "novel" protein source (Kangaroo & Lentil). You need to be careful about changing the food too often though as they can develop more sensitivities to food if you keep changing. I'd get him to the dermatologist/vet ASAP & get their recommendations..... Good Luck! I know how tough it can be.......
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Well with the recall right now I'm not sticking with TOTW anyways. I didn't realize they were manufactured by diamond. Spent the night researching new foods , going to try natures variety limited invredient or acana. Some of the others hypoallergenic foods had oatmeal and eggs, think I need to go simple so l make sure he can stay medication free for at least the required month prior to any testing.
Yes, full thyroid panel was done twice just to be safe. No issues with that.
I just red about that kangaroo / lentil food, let me know how it works. Hope ur pup doesn't get gassy from the beans lol! Good to know about the skin va blood test being more accurate, and if he has another reaction I will inquire about the prednisone alternative. Only 2 more days left of pred and 3 of antibiotics, here's to hoping!
Thanks for the link as well!
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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If I am reading this correctly, this begins with actual hives, and then progresses into infection? Regarding the infection: what is the longest course of antibiotics he has been on? I am wondering if the infection is actually being whacked, or if it is being simply knocked down a bit, and resurfacing... it can take six to eight weeks of meds.

A friend of mine (coincidentally also in Royal Oak) has a young pibble boy who does something similar. She is now keeping injectable Benadryl on hand to get the hives under control immediately.

If you suspect foods, the easiest and most diagnostically valuable course of action is to do a true elimination diet... you can do this your own self, without veterinary direction. If you are willing to feed whole ground raw, you would choose one single protein and feed only that for a minimum of four weeks. It would need to be a protein which your dog has not eaten before (goat? pork? duck?). If you are feeding whole ground animal products (meat, bones and organs) you can do this safely without incuring dietary deficiencies for a considerable length of time. If all is well at the end of your trial, you add one single item for a week... if there are no issues, you keep that item in the diet, and add another; you keep adding and waiting to see if there is a reaction (removing whatever was last added if there is a reaction) until you are back to feeding a good variety.

I spoke with someone earlier this week whose dog had been prescribed an elimination diet by some dermatologist (unbelievably, at MSU!)... for three months, she is to feed ostrich meat and rutabagas only... where's the calcium? iodine? vitamins A and D? big et cetera? Holy cow! Point being, I learned that there are some loony dermatologists around here, so be careful if you hire one!
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:58 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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If I am reading this correctly, this begins with actual hives, and then progresses into infection? Regarding the infection: what is the longest course of antibiotics he has been on? I am wondering if the infection is actually being whacked, or if it is being simply knocked down a bit, and resurfacing... it can take six to eight weeks of meds.

A friend of mine (coincidentally also in Royal Oak) has a young pibble boy who does something similar. She is now keeping injectable Benadryl on hand to get the hives under control immediately.

If you suspect foods, the easiest and most diagnostically valuable course of action is to do a true elimination diet... you can do this your own self, without veterinary direction. If you are willing to feed whole ground raw, you would choose one single protein and feed only that for a minimum of four weeks. It would need to be a protein which your dog has not eaten before (goat? pork? duck?). If you are feeding whole ground animal products (meat, bones and organs) you can do this safely without incuring dietary deficiencies for a considerable length of time. If all is well at the end of your trial, you add one single item for a week... if there are no issues, you keep that item in the diet, and add another; you keep adding and waiting to see if there is a reaction (removing whatever was last added if there is a reaction) until you are back to feeding a good variety.

I spoke with someone earlier this week whose dog had been prescribed an elimination diet by some dermatologist (unbelievably, at MSU!)... for three months, she is to feed ostrich meat and rutabagas only... where's the calcium? iodine? vitamins A and D? big et cetera? Holy cow! Point being, I learned that there are some loony dermatologists around here, so be careful if you hire one!


Thanks ! Im going to start him on the limited ingredient turkey natures variety . It has no eggs, dairy, or grains or potato at all and he's never had turkey . Have started the vitamin d and sardines, goin to make some turkey / sardine treats for him too. If he still is reacting il swap to the raw. I try to research a lot on here, have been given down great advice and links to help out. Can't take him for the allergy testing for a month due o him finishing up the prednisone tomorrow and have to wait. The longest antibiotic course he has had was 14 days, and that seemed to help for a few months.
Appreciate the responses, il re post after I get the skin testing done! If my guesswork is right wheat, beef and dairy will be on the list of allergies... We will c!
Have a great day everyone,
Benny's mom
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:02 AM   #14 (permalink)
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i had a Boxer Bitch with horrible skin and itching issues. After going through 3 Vets I wound up with a Dermatologist from the University of Wisconsin in Madison.

After going through all the reports from the previous 3 vets he did scratch testing for allergies. She had extensive allergies grasses, pollen etc. He did not mention anything about food but grains were part of the scratch testing.

He made up a serum for her and showed me how to give the injections it was actually pretty easy. I then got a prescription for the needles and gave her the injections intially it was once a week and then went down in frequency.

She was checked every 6 mos for about a year then once a year for a few years then on an as needed basis. The allergy shots did work for her.

Scratch testing was the same as what they did for humans small scratches with the allergen they are testing for to check the reaction hers were pretty bad. This was in the 90s.
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Hey to all who followed this thread from me. Just an update to those who have the skin issues from our blue dobes. So Benny and I made the trip to the allergist, after a 3 hour consult and exam, this conclusion was drawn. His skin infection was staph, he's on a 4 week course of antibiotics for this now. Also, I'm giving him weekly subQ injections of "staph lysate" to help him build a stronger resistance to it. Almost like an allergy shot for staph though. He gets a bath and rinse with fatty acid/dermotology products. He also gets a skin supplement that is absorbed by the skin to help promote skin resilience. EPA 1600-1800/ day, vitamin A and zinc are now part of his daily diet. Think that's it for his new routine. He looks better already, I learned a little more about the slob our dobe alopecia, his pores get clogged when the hair can't break through and this doesn't help his chance of infection either. After we get rid of the staph with the longer antibiotic course, I am still interested in getting his food allergies tested as this initiates a reaction leading to infection. No more prednisone ever tho yay! Of course I'm giving him probiotics to help keep his belly happy. The terrible dandruff he had from taste of the wild is gone now that he has been switched.( to natures variety limited Ingredient turkey, and some sardines to hide pills in)
Just some information for anyone who is running into allergy related pyoderma. The doc was great, very patient with my questions and seemed knowledgeable. As he better be for that vet bill lol! Thanks to all for your helpful suggestions! Here's to hoping my boys skin will be clearing up in no time
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