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Old 06-16-2011, 11:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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vomiting -- stomach too full? acid reflux?

Calvin has a history of vomiting in the wee hours of the morning. Usually if it happens I'll give an antacid like Pepcid AC (vet's suggestion) right before bed for 2 or 3 days and he stops for a while. However, eventually it happens again.

The vet isn't really worried. She thinks that his stomach is just sensitive. I don't want to give him antacids for the rest of his life though (not that she's said that but it seems to be where we're heading).

Any of you experience something like this? He throws up partially digested food not bile. Could it be because his stomach is too full? Could we be feeding him too much? (5 cups a day, twice a day of Pro Plan LB). Could it be acid reflux that's causing his food to come up?

This is getting pretty frustrating. Any insight would be appreciated.
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Calvin has a history of vomiting in the wee hours of the morning. Usually if it happens I'll give an antacid like Pepcid AC (vet's suggestion) right before bed for 2 or 3 days and he stops for a while. However, eventually it happens again.

The vet isn't really worried. She thinks that his stomach is just sensitive. I don't want to give him antacids for the rest of his life though (not that she's said that but it seems to be where we're heading).

Any of you experience something like this? He throws up partially digested food not bile. Could it be because his stomach is too full? Could we be feeding him too much? (5 cups a day, twice a day of Pro Plan LB). Could it be acid reflux that's causing his food to come up?

This is getting pretty frustrating. Any insight would be appreciated.
That is a lot of food. Your saying a total of 10 cups a day or a total of 5 cups a day?

How many calories are you feeding him. I am feeding Parker 860 calories twice a day. Are you close to that?

You kinda got me since he is throwing up food and not bile...

What is pro plan LB? Figured it was Lam Barley but can't find it on their site. Okay large breed, but couldn't find the calories on the site,
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Purina Pro Plan Large Breed: 5 cups per day total (sorry for the confusion).
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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That does sound like a lot of food. What does the label recommend for comparison? Each of my two dobes eat 1-2 cups of ProPlan Sensitive Skin and Stomach twice a day, for a total of about 3-4 cups.

He could also be throwing up because he has gobbled the food down too fast. If you think that is the problem, you could try putting a large rock or upside down bowl in his dish so he has to eat around the obstacle instead of just being able to inhale the food in one gulp. You can also buy bowls which are molded with a few large bumps in the bottom which work the same way.

Just saw your previous post *whew*

And now I reread your original post. Did you mean that he is throwing up at night or early in the morning, before he gets his morning meal?? I can't read today.
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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That does sound like a lot of food. What does the label recommend for comparison? Each of my two dobes eat 1-2 cups of ProPlan Sensitive Skin and Stomach twice a day, for a total of about 3-4 cups.

He could also be throwing up because he has gobbled the food down too fast. If you think that is the problem, you could try putting a large rock or upside down bowl in his dish so he has to eat around the obstacle instead of just being able to inhale the food in one gulp. You can also buy bowls which are molded with a few large bumps in the bottom which work the same way.

Just saw your previous post *whew*

And now I reread your original post. Did you mean that he is throwing up at night or early in the morning, before he gets his morning meal?? I can't read today.
I actually just posted in another thread about him slowing down considerably while eating. I was wondering if his loss of interest in kibble was a result of his neutering.

The label says:

For dogs up to 100 lbs (adult maturity): 6 to 8 months -- 4 - 6-1/4 cups.

I'd like to switch him over to orijen large breed puppy in order to feed him less quantity per day. The Purina Pro Plan label goes on to recommend 8-2/3 - 10-1/2 cups per day for puppies 9-11 months; that seems like way too much to me. I'm looking to make the switch very slowly over a month long period.

He's throwing up before his morning feeding.
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Try a grain free food. I recommend Orijen or Acana... I tried proplan for the last month, it was bad...back to Orijen for Finn. My dog did not have vomiting, but, his coat went to crap comparatively and he started having problems with itching. of course, gas and upset stomach conditions can come from too much food as well. Easiest thing would be to try reducing intake first, but switching to a grain free diet really is best for dogs. Oh, Orijen feeding guidelines are actually usually too much. Heck, go to a rottweiler, GSD, or other big dog site, and lots of those folks have their dogs on about 2 cups (3 at most) a day of Orijen.

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Old 06-16-2011, 12:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I was just going to ask if he was neutered. Depending on how old he is it is common for the males to have upset from time to time. Now that he is neutered it should straghten out. Give him a big HUG and I would cut back on the food. That seems like an excessive amount.
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If it has only been a week since neutering, he could still be feeling a little off, I suppose. His activity level is probably a bit less too, so he may not be eating with the vigor you are accustomed too.

I assume there were no problems with the neuter itself, or no sign of infection present? That might be something to check, if you are seeing other signs of him not being quite well. But the neuter itself shouldn't be bothering him at this point.

Is it a newly opened bag of food? I've had a bag or two over the years that the dogs just didn't want to eat, though they would eat from a new bag of the same brand. Bad food? If you think that is going on, just buy a small bag if you can, to test the theory. Or consider changing foods, like you seem to be.

I hate the vomiting dog--the symptom can mean so many things. Good luck!
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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My guess is something in the food is not agreeing with him. He should not still have food on his stomach in the early morning from the previous nite's feeding.

I am very partial to Acana grain free. Very good food.
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Old 06-16-2011, 01:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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My guess is something in the food is not agreeing with him. He should not still have food on his stomach in the early morning from the previous nite's feeding.

I am very partial to Acana grain free. Very good food.
I hope it's the food. Like I said, I've started the switch to orijen; i hope that works out. I think last night's vomiting was a result of his heartworm/flea medication. We're going to the vet this Saturday for our other dog's yearly so I'll talk to the vet about this again.

Thanks everyone for the input!
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Old 06-16-2011, 01:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAA2586 View Post
I hope it's the food. Like I said, I've started the switch to orijen; i hope that works out. I think last night's vomiting was a result of his heartworm/flea medication. We're going to the vet this Saturday for our other dog's yearly so I'll talk to the vet about this again.

Thanks everyone for the input!
You need to check out that heartworm thread, if you haven't already. Everybody needs to check it out...bad news on the horizon!
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Old 06-16-2011, 01:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You need to check out that heartworm thread, if you haven't already. Everybody needs to check it out...bad news on the horizon!
What thread is that?
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Old 06-16-2011, 03:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You mentioned something about heartworms and made me think of this thread. Everyone needs to read it. Be sure to read the thread I posted, S C A R E Y!


Heart Worms getting resistant to Medications ?
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Old 06-16-2011, 04:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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It's not going to hurt him to give a pepcid up to 2 x a day. plenty of dogs require it. if there is still food in his stomach that late, I would worry about him not digesting it properly or just feeding to much.
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Max was having problems with his food Nutra Max large breed Lamb and Rice. Because it was lamb and rice, I thought that it was poultry free...I was wrong. He cannot tolerate any poultry at all in his diet. I had to switch him to Natural Balance Lamb and Rice. He has been fine ever since. No throwing up or messy BM's.

Also, my vet recommended 2 tablets of Pepto. That helped some, but I have to read all labels. It's amazing how much stuff out there is made from poultry or has poultry oil.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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It's not going to hurt him to give a pepcid up to 2 x a day. plenty of dogs require it. if there is still food in his stomach that late, I would worry about him not digesting it properly or just feeding to much.
Thanks Cathy! That makes me feel better. I think in the past he's thrown up because he was getting too much food. This thread has really confirmed that I should probably switch his food; it's pro plan chicken and rice formula. It's possible that chicken doesn't agree with him as another poster mentioned above.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
If it has only been a week since neutering, he could still be feeling a little off, I suppose. His activity level is probably a bit less too, so he may not be eating with the vigor you are accustomed too.

I assume there were no problems with the neuter itself, or no sign of infection present? That might be something to check, if you are seeing other signs of him not being quite well. But the neuter itself shouldn't be bothering him at this point.

Is it a newly opened bag of food? I've had a bag or two over the years that the dogs just didn't want to eat, though they would eat from a new bag of the same brand. Bad food? If you think that is going on, just buy a small bag if you can, to test the theory. Or consider changing foods, like you seem to be.

I hate the vomiting dog--the symptom can mean so many things. Good luck!
Definitely no sign of infection. He's full of energy just like he always was despite the neuter. I'm really hoping that the food change will make the difference. Thanks for your help!
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I wouldn't be surprised if he has some sort of allergy to his food. A while back he was breaking out all over his body with little pimples (he still gets some). The vet gave him an antibiotic and a medicated shampoo and that helped but his coat isn't great still.

I'm thinking the antibiotics and shampoo are kind of covering up his symptoms that might be directly related to his food.

Any thoughts on that theory?

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Max was having problems with his food Nutra Max large breed Lamb and Rice. Because it was lamb and rice, I thought that it was poultry free...I was wrong. He cannot tolerate any poultry at all in his diet. I had to switch him to Natural Balance Lamb and Rice. He has been fine ever since. No throwing up or messy BM's.

Also, my vet recommended 2 tablets of Pepto. That helped some, but I have to read all labels. It's amazing how much stuff out there is made from poultry or has poultry oil.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:53 PM   #19 (permalink)
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No one told us about this allergy, it was by trial and error.
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:21 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAA2586 View Post
Thanks Cathy! That makes me feel better. I think in the past he's thrown up because he was getting too much food. This thread has really confirmed that I should probably switch his food; it's pro plan chicken and rice formula. It's possible that chicken doesn't agree with him as another poster mentioned above.
It's a whole lot more likely that it could be corn that is an issue, and not chicken.

Most dogs, if they are going to vomit from overeating, will do so immediately or at least shortly after; in general, overfed dogs don't puke, they just get fat.

Doing an antacid when acid is required for digestion seems kind of counter productive to me. If you get him switched to a better food and are still having issues, I would consider adding a digestive enzyme product to his meals; I have tried lots of these, and find NOW Foods Super Enzymes to be the only over-the-counter product that was worth using; I open one capsule, and sprinkle the contents on each meal.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:01 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Take a look at Nature's Variety Instinct grain free. Pro Plan would not be my food of choice.
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:02 AM   #22 (permalink)
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My boy has had vomiting issues on and off his whole life. Out of curiosity, is it always partially eaten food or is it only partially eaten when he gets the pepcid? does he ever vomit just bile? when you say that it is usually early in the morning, is it consistently the same amount of time since he has eaten? how long has this been going on?

If the food isn't fully digested and you haven't given him pepcid, recently, (pepcid could slow digestion some) then I would look to the food you are feeding and try something else. Like others said he could have an allergy, although it sounds more like just an intolerance, to something in the pro plan. If you do some serious research into what goes into dog food and the very lax/nonexistent regulation of them, it could be just about anything. A lot of people love Orijin and I agree its a good food, but it doesnt work for everyone. as much as I wanted it to work for my kids, it just diddnt. (My frenchie had chronic skin infections for 15 months while on the food. they went away immediately after I switched her.)
Here is a website to get you started on Dog food research :http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

My second Idea is that he is still young (you said 6-8 months, right?) and some dog's digestive systems dont mature as fast as they do, causing puppies to vomit from time to time when they eat to much. You could try 3 meals a day and see if that helps.

Another idea, is he getting up, early in the morning, and being really thirsty so he wonders to a bowl and drinks too much? Lots of dogs will vomit after drinking to much water.

If he is vomiting bile at say, 2 am every morning, I would put some "cookies" or milk-bone-like treats (but not milk bones- use something healthier) next to your bed and give him some like 10-20 min before he normally vomits. this could help if he is doing it due to an empty tummy.

Along that line you could also try feeding him dinner, later in the evening or right before bed.

another thing about Pepcid. In general it is a very safe drug. (my frenchie was getting 2 a day, for a while) However, in humans it has shown to lower the seizure threshold. My boy was getting pepcid on a daily basis and started to get seizures more frequently. When we took him off the pepcid, they went from 2 times a month to maybe 1 a year or less. When he has episodes of feeling "vomity" we give him a 2 week course of prilosec. I think we have done that 3 times in the last 5 years.

You could also try adding a probiotic and/or digestive enzymes to his diet to help. Just go talk to someone at your local health food store. In general I am skeptical of probiotic supplements that are not refrigerated (they are live organisms, so I dont really understand how they can live on a shelf for so long). You could also try adding yogurt, but it wont have as high of a bacteria count, as well as some dogs dont agree with dairy. (my dogs get yogurt with every meal)

good luck!

Oh I forgot one other thing. Is there a possibility that he could have ingested something that he cannot pass? A partial blockage that is stuck in the stomach can cause dogs to vomit partially digested food, especially when they have been laying down. Even Greenies or rawhide could potentially cause this.

Last edited by Maschka1; 06-17-2011 at 10:07 AM..
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:26 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Thanks for all of the ideas!

1. It's usually around the same time so yes it's roughly the same amount of time since he's eaten, probably 8-10 hours. It's virtually always partially digested food (or at least that's what it seems like to me). I think he vomited some bile one time. This has been going on probably since we got him. I can't remember exactly when (we got him at 8 weeks and he's 6.5 months now).

2. I've started the transition to orijen. I know what you mean about it not being right for all dogs. I tried to get my cocker spaniel on it and she just couldn't tolerate the high protein level.

3. He was on 3 meals per day until a few days ago. I decided to feed him only twice a day to see if his stomach was just getting too full.

4. He tends to drink a lot of water, especially when he's playing outside (but i figure that's because we're in Miami and it's in the 90s every day now). He doesn't drink a lot of water right when he wakes up though.

5. I'll look into the probiotics thing. Sometimes when his stool gets a little loose I'll add some pumpkin to his food with great results.

6. I suppose a blockage is possible, but I don't think it's likely. He poops consistently, probably three times a day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschka1 View Post
My boy has had vomiting issues on and off his whole life. Out of curiosity, is it always partially eaten food or is it only partially eaten when he gets the pepcid? does he ever vomit just bile? when you say that it is usually early in the morning, is it consistently the same amount of time since he has eaten? how long has this been going on?

If the food isn't fully digested and you haven't given him pepcid, recently, (pepcid could slow digestion some) then I would look to the food you are feeding and try something else. Like others said he could have an allergy, although it sounds more like just an intolerance, to something in the pro plan. If you do some serious research into what goes into dog food and the very lax/nonexistent regulation of them, it could be just about anything. A lot of people love Orijin and I agree its a good food, but it doesnt work for everyone. as much as I wanted it to work for my kids, it just diddnt. (My frenchie had chronic skin infections for 15 months while on the food. they went away immediately after I switched her.)
Here is a website to get you started on Dog food research :The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

My second Idea is that he is still young (you said 6-8 months, right?) and some dog's digestive systems dont mature as fast as they do, causing puppies to vomit from time to time when they eat to much. You could try 3 meals a day and see if that helps.

Another idea, is he getting up, early in the morning, and being really thirsty so he wonders to a bowl and drinks too much? Lots of dogs will vomit after drinking to much water.

If he is vomiting bile at say, 2 am every morning, I would put some "cookies" or milk-bone-like treats (but not milk bones- use something healthier) next to your bed and give him some like 10-20 min before he normally vomits. this could help if he is doing it due to an empty tummy.

Along that line you could also try feeding him dinner, later in the evening or right before bed.

another thing about Pepcid. In general it is a very safe drug. (my frenchie was getting 2 a day, for a while) However, in humans it has shown to lower the seizure threshold. My boy was getting pepcid on a daily basis and started to get seizures more frequently. When we took him off the pepcid, they went from 2 times a month to maybe 1 a year or less. When he has episodes of feeling "vomity" we give him a 2 week course of prilosec. I think we have done that 3 times in the last 5 years.

You could also try adding a probiotic and/or digestive enzymes to his diet to help. Just go talk to someone at your local health food store. In general I am skeptical of probiotic supplements that are not refrigerated (they are live organisms, so I dont really understand how they can live on a shelf for so long). You could also try adding yogurt, but it wont have as high of a bacteria count, as well as some dogs dont agree with dairy. (my dogs get yogurt with every meal)

good luck!

Oh I forgot one other thing. Is there a possibility that he could have ingested something that he cannot pass? A partial blockage that is stuck in the stomach can cause dogs to vomit partially digested food, especially when they have been laying down. Even Greenies or rawhide could potentially cause this.
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Old 06-17-2011, 02:01 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
5. I'll look into the probiotics thing. Sometimes when his stool gets a little loose I'll add some pumpkin to his food with great results.

6. I suppose a blockage is possible, but I don't think it's likely. He poops consistently, probably three times a day.
Pumpkin is just fiber, Probiotics are different. They are why Yogurt is so good for you. They are beneficial bacteria that live in our GI system and help us to fight disease and break down certain parts of our food. You say he has been on antibiotics for his skin? That will also kill good bacteria so its a good idea to add this to his food, anyway.

As far as a blockage goes, I am only talking about a partial blockage. Think of it this way. If a dog swallowed, say, a "rock". This "rock" is too big to fit through the exit at the other end of his stomach so it just sits in there, but because it is not digestible material, it never gets smaller, so it just rolls around in the stomach. The dog is still able to eat food, digest it, and pass it on to his intestines, most of the time. When you run into an issue is when that "rock" rolls and sits in front of the exit from his stomach to intestines. this is more common when the dog is laying down because the stomach is more level. When the exit is blocked, this will cause the dog to vomit because his tummy feels to full and he needs to empty it, somehow. Dogs with this sort of obstruction can go for months and months and no one knows anything is wrong.

another question I would have. Does he ever do this during the day? What is your feeding schedule like? is there more time between breakfast to dinner or dinner to breakfast? or is it an even 12 hrs apart?
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Old 06-17-2011, 04:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
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He was on antibiotics for his skin but that was over a month ago, maybe two months.

I get what you mean about the partial blockage. How can that be confirmed? X-ray im guessing?

He never does this during the day with the exception of a couple days ago where he threw up during our mid-day walk. However, I think that the last incidents (tuesday 3am then tuesday 1130am) were the result of his heartworm/flea combo medication that he just started.

He eats every morning at 6am and then in the evenings at 6pm. We recently cut out the noon feeding.

Quote:
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Pumpkin is just fiber, Probiotics are different. They are why Yogurt is so good for you. They are beneficial bacteria that live in our GI system and help us to fight disease and break down certain parts of our food. You say he has been on antibiotics for his skin? That will also kill good bacteria so its a good idea to add this to his food, anyway.

As far as a blockage goes, I am only talking about a partial blockage. Think of it this way. If a dog swallowed, say, a "rock". This "rock" is too big to fit through the exit at the other end of his stomach so it just sits in there, but because it is not digestible material, it never gets smaller, so it just rolls around in the stomach. The dog is still able to eat food, digest it, and pass it on to his intestines, most of the time. When you run into an issue is when that "rock" rolls and sits in front of the exit from his stomach to intestines. this is more common when the dog is laying down because the stomach is more level. When the exit is blocked, this will cause the dog to vomit because his tummy feels to full and he needs to empty it, somehow. Dogs with this sort of obstruction can go for months and months and no one knows anything is wrong.

another question I would have. Does he ever do this during the day? What is your feeding schedule like? is there more time between breakfast to dinner or dinner to breakfast? or is it an even 12 hrs apart?
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