bobbatt

This dog fell over during a training class. The trainer gave the dog CPR and yes the dog came back.
YouTube - Dog Trainer Saves Dog with CPR

Murreydobe

You need to put a warning up about that video. It's an emotional minefield to anyone who's lost a dog to sudden death DCM, and probably to a lot of people who haven't.

Personally, I don't think CPR or any extraordinary measures to save a dog from sudden death due to cardiac problems (as is obviously the case as this is a boxer) is really the best thing for the dog. All you're doing is delaying the inevitable.

sam&macksmom

Thank you for the warning as I was about to click on the link.

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Murreydobe

I think it's kind of sick someone actually filmed something like that.

stardstdob

This is only about thirty minutes from me so it was all over the news up here.

They were filming the class and they continued filming this because they wanted to give it to the Vet if they were able to save the dog.
It has not been said but I also suspect that they probably wanted to document what they did to save the dog for liability purposes if they were unsuccessful as it occurred on their property. I do not find that sick at all.

They did in fact share the video with the Vet who is treating the dog.

I am not clear on who released the tape to the media but it has been on all the stations around here.

Ron Pace is a name that has been around dog training in the PNW for quite a while.

zanephoebe

Thanks for the warning Murrey. Glad I caught it before I clicked the link.

Luvbirds

Thank you for saying this.

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LindaH

I actually made it thru it without crying. Got a tear in my eye, but no all out crying.

I don't know if cpr was the right thing to do either. Everything will just be repeated on down the road...

The film starts with the dog already unconcious laying on the ground. Ron comes over and does the cpr and eventually the dog regains conciousness. He is confused and he is sitting but still not able to walk at the end of the video which is 7:52 long.

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RedFawnRising

I don't know if it was the right thing either--mostly because it's not my dog, nor a dog I know.

I did not watch the video, too close to home for me, can't do it.

But, the discussion has made me ponder a bit: Some humans *do* believe heroics are appropriate.

Who am I to deprive them of that? Or to pass judgement on them?

I know someone whose Weim has a (different than DCM) heart condition and I guarandamntee you if her dog collapsed during training, she would NOT be able to deal, unless folks jumped in and tried to save her dog.

I know folks who've gone thru amputation and chemo, with osteosarcoma, and the end is inevitable with that one, too.

I guess I know what I'm personally comfortable with, and I would likely have let the dog go...but, again, not my dog.

If medical protocols are followed, the owners love the animal and are truly trying to make the best decisions--well, lots of grey area in there for judgement calls, and it's their dog.

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EmilyB

I watched it before the warning.

The owner was a young gal, I think we are a bit more seasoned (not the word I am looking for) you might say.

She just wanted her dog back, and honestly I think I would do the exact same thing that guy did (if this was the first presentation), now that I have an idea how to do it.

Clearly, I have not been through DCM however.

taurean

Sorry, I have to quote to respond, because I'm a moron who doesn't know how to use a forum. Can somene point me to a tutorial?

Anyway, my point is, you say it is delaying the inevitable, but how long is inevitable? Because of this boxer's collapse the vet diagnosed a heart condition prohibiting strenuos exercise. With this knowledge the owner can take preventative steps to enjoy many more years with her pet. Had this not happened she could have continued as she was doing and lost him much sooner.

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hbwright

taurean, I had this discussion with my husband and we both went back and forth with what ifs. What if it gave us just one more day to say our goodbyes instead of being so shocked at our loss, we could have that day to love her and prepare. What if she unknowingly suffered through that day? But she would be with us and we would spoil her and give her the best last day of her life. etc., etc., etc. I guess maybe it was fortunate Cleo was beyond resuscitation when we found her as we would have stood and argued over her for an hour.

It is so hard to say how we would react in that situation. I think, if our dog was diagnosed with heart disease and we had been treating it and knowing that his/her life was destined to be short, then I'd let them go in peace. However, not knowing and wondering if it was some kind of fluke, I may try to resuscitate.

I did watch the video. Didn't think it right to add a warning without and I gasped and cried because the dog I saw was my Cleo, all over again. Cleo had been outside while I went to the store and the kids went in to get washed up for dinner after playing all day. Hubby was supposed to start the grill while I was at the store but got lazy and waited for me to get home. When he went out he wasn't greated by the dogs and found Cleo lying on her side; she had passed away. There was no way at that point to even think of reviving. Would I have had I saw her collapse, yup, probably.

Stiv

What seems to be unrealized in some comments here is this:

" ...Once the dog was resuscitated, the owner took him to the vet. It was later found out Sugar has Cardiomyopathy."

It was not discovered until after this incident. For me to think that some people here would simply let their dog dog die to avoid simplying "delaying the inevitable," kind of disturbs me. I would like to think that dog owners and lovers would do all they can to save the life of their family member. Remember that the dog was NOT diagnosed prior to this incident, as well. For one to simply turn away and let the dog die without trying something makes me glad that person is not and will never be a caretaker of my dog.

There are a number of stories on this forum alone of people that have taken in rescues with prior issues and saved their lives and spent thousands on surgeries to prolong the life of the dog. How does the arguement of not worth delaying the inevitable work in those cases? How is that so different?

I applaud this man for saving that dog. He might live another few days or years and years. This can only strengthen their family bond. Also, now that the owner has a raised awareness, they can make intellegent choices for the future. Also, it puts animal CPR as a headline story. Win, win, win IMO.

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stardstdob

I think the difference is that some people on here have a lot of experience with Dobermans and DCM so that the picture was pretty clear to them. With their experience and history in the breed they just know. Having lived through it is painful and watching it I am certain would bring all those emotions back.

Now add this to it. If one of the dogs you are closely associated with could be considered one of the greatest producers in the history of the DPCA, but instead is remembered by many for this terrible disease and passing that on to its prodigy; I think that could color anyone's perspective..

Having said all that, I agree with you. I have actually attended a seminar with Ron Pace years ago and had a pretty positive perception of him.

To me he seemed to honestly care about the dogs and handlers and want the best for them.

Ron saw a dog in trouble and an owner in distress
He acted and tried to do something to help
And he was successful
That should be seen as a good thing.
At no point in that video do you see the woman asking him to stop. She wants him to help her dog.

As RFR pointed out - it is her dog and her decision to make.

The last I heard the dog is doing well on the medication.

You are right, they did not know what the problem was. Now they do and have a chance to treat the dog and value every day with him. She might get an extra year she might not. She has had him almost an extra week at this point. Who am I to say how much extra time with her dog makes it worth it?

I am happy for her that Ron was there and able to help her. She has both answers and extra time with her dog that she seems to be grateful for.

And as you say; it brought attention to canine CPR.... these are all good things

Sue L

m0nstar

That was very emotional and I am glad the dog is doing well. The inevitable is guaranteed but hope is what keeps you going in hard times.

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blackdoberboy

I am one of those people that lost my dog to Sudden Death...One minute playing in the back yard-the next on the ground ---GONE...I tried CPR-nothing-rushed him to the Emergency vets-but it was too late.They told me he was probably dead before he hit the ground....Never will I forget that day and it will be 6 years May 8th

m0nstar

How old was he? Sorry for your loss.

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blackdoberboy

Rocky was a month short of his 10th birthday..My red boy will always be in my heart...
He was seemingly in good health -ran around like a puppy...Never had any idea there was anything wrong....He died doing what he loved to do-play and in his backyard where he loved to play...

rsmyth

I can appreciate where your coming from, but we live in a day where almost anything is possible. Humans are cured every day of near death expieriences and we cant help but pass those expierences down to our canine loved ones. If that dog lives another 8 months is it worth it?
If it passed a week later does it make it wrong? Unforunitly dogs cant comunicate through words. So its up to humans to entreperate their behaviour and make a judgement call.

Iv not expierienced dcm first hand either so i may be wrong. But i dont think these people did anything wrong.

Check what the low lifes commented on below the vid. Un-real.

jhowell

For me personally, if this happened to my dog I would be very greatful that someone helped him. It would be devastating for me to seeing my dog die right there on ground. Hopefully she can get help for him. I think it is a very personal decision and no one should pass judgement.

Luvbirds

My heart dog Petey....who is laying on my lap licking my face as I type this has DCM. There is NO CURE, it is a death sentence. The most we can expect with some cases...is buying some time with a good cardiologist and medications. Some Dobes get years, others only months or weeks. We all know that the possibility of our Dobes getting DCM is pretty high could be close to 50%, some old, and some young, my boy was diagnosed at 3, another DT members boy was in CHF at 3 and dead soon after. Boxers are the other known breed that should be checked yearly according to Petey's Cardiologist. I think that posting that video here on DT is very emotional for those of us dealing with this devastating disease day in and day out. For those that have seen their dog die suddenly...it must put them right back to where they were that instant their beloved was taken from them. I wake up during the night to check and see if my boy is breathing. I moved his bed right next to me, so I can reach down and pet him. The other night I thought that he was gone, he felt cold.....I felt as though I was having a heart attack....thankfully his time hadn't come yet, but for the entire next day I had mini panic attacks about when, and how am I going to deal with him leaving me. The best way for a Dobe with DCM to go....is to die sudden, it's awful for us...but painless for the dog. Although the pain of living through the last 15 months of knowing has been hard....having that 15 months to spoil the crap out of my boy, has been a blessing. He is having the best life possible, never a day taken for granted. It's taught me to treat everyone in my life like it's their last day on earth. I'm hopeful Petey makes it through this coming summer in good health...because I've planned two really great vacations where he can come and have a blast. If not...his life has been one full of quality experiences and so much love.

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Luvbirds

Also....as for accepting the inevitable and letting nature take it's course ....it's such a slippery slope and everyone feels different about it. And no one is right or wrong with how they feel. Saving that dog seems like a great heroic act, that might lead to some good quality time, but it might not, the dog could be close to CHF, and now die a horrible death. I am a licensed Wildlife Rehabilitator. I get a lot of animals from my local Humane Society, they believe in saving every animal that comes through their doors no matter what. As a Wildlife Rehabber.....I do not believe that a wild animal should be saved if it has to spend the rest of his life locked in a cage, this is the belief of most seasoned rehabbers. I take classes about this issue. Death is a part of nature....and most people have a really hard time accepting it. As I'm writing this a phone call came in about a wild opossum, had to have this exact discussion with the caller. I think that given a choice....most dogs would rather go out sudden doing what they love best...then to be given years of what they would consider a low quality life. Dogs live in the moment...and as for my two....it's all about the fun and food!

WOW...this thread has really helped me! Thanks for starting it!!!

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Darkevs

didn't watch it as it has been described by a few of what was in the video.

I just know that I would jump in and try to help/save any dog in that or any other situation. Would not even hesitate. But that is just me.

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Murreydobe

Exactly. And I've seen that happen. It's not likely to happen with a boxer, as their cardiac problems are almost exclusively related to arrthymias. But with a doberman..it's a very real possibility, a chance I'd never take.

I do agree with Carol that there is no right or wrong about using extraordinary measures to try to revive a dog who's suffered a DCM sudden death. Everyone has to make their own choices.

I know what my choice would be, and I'm sorry if that's disturbing to anyone else. Maybe if you'd seen what I've seen you just might feel differently.

I also know what I'd think about someone filming my dog's sudden death-people might just get a chance to see me become violent.

Murreydobe

Sometimes that's the only VERY small shred of comfort available-that they died doing what they loved the best,never knowing what hit them, rather than in fear and pain. It's not much of a consolation, but when your world has fallen apart, it's better than no consolation at all.