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Old 03-26-2010, 06:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Puppy's front Legs Bowed?

I have a 10 week old male pup and we recently noticed his front legs are slightly bowed and toes pointed in (right more than the left). We were at the vet and she thought it was "odd" and said it was laxity in his joints being a puppy. She was not our normal Vet (which we see in a week and will mention the legs to him) and I thought it was weird for her answer to be "oh thats odd"


Please help!
Anyone experience this with their growing pup? I know they can grow too quickly with bones and muscles not catching up. Here is a picture...
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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This is referred to as knuckling over. It normally means that the puppy is getting too much protein. If you are feeding a puppy food, it should be large breed puppy food, better yet, feed an adult food.

You want the growth to be slow so that the body grows in unison without undue stress on any joint or any part growing too fast causing panosteitis (pain in the bone).

If you are feeding a higher protein diet and you switch to an adult food, the problem will correct itself in about a month.

I would like other people to chime in with their specifics and their experiences.
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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what are you feeding her?
check out this thread on a similar topic:
Carpal abnormality / Genetical defect
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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He is eating Innova Large Breed Puppy. Which is what I thought was best being a large breed. He is only 10 weeks old.. I should still switch to adult?
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenkouki View Post
what are you feeding her?
check out this thread on a similar topic:
Carpal abnormality / Genetical defect
I had a bitch decades ago that knuckled over as an adult on both front legs - definitely genetic.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoosetheDobie View Post
He is eating Innova Large Breed Puppy. Which is what I thought was best being a large breed. He is only 10 weeks old.. I should still switch to adult?
Innova Large Breed Puppy is a great food, so I don't think you want to switch to the adult version. Some people don't recommend the large breed foods for Dobes since they aren't considered a large breed like Mastiffs or Great Danes, but Innova says to use the large breed puppy for any dog who will have an adult weight of over 60 pounds. It's what I'm feeding my puppy, and he is doing really well on it.

He was on TOTW Pacific Stream before this, and he never seemed to have solid stools. (You just have to get used to people on these forums talking about dog poo. It comes up a lot. )
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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that food helps very very well, check it out
Eagle Pack Super Premium Pet Foods

Eagle Pack Pet Foods, Inc.

just check out both links, that will help you with the legs and to get a answer
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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He had the same problem with Vegas as a pup, I'll try to find the thread if you're interested. Long story short, we changed her diet slightly and her legs improved within a few weeks.

Edit: found the thread, for the most part uninteresting and people saying "I don't know" but this quote sums it up pretty well...

"I went from feeding her a large breed puppy formula Blue Buffalo at 28% protein with a supplement of yogurt and cottage cheese, to a large breed adult formula of Blue Buffalo at 26% protein. I was going to switch her to the large/giant breed formula of Eagle Pack at 22% protein (I think), but I saw results so quickly after this diet modification that I decided it wasn't necessary. Thanks for the help everyone!"
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Switch to an adult food now as others have said. However, if it doesn't get better in a couple of weeks, I'd have them take x-rays to make sure he doesn't have a condition where his radius and ulna aren't growing at the same rate. It throws off their elbow and will bow out their front legs. It can be corrected surgically, but it NEEDS to be done when they are still young; otherwise their elbow will be permanently wrong and they will have problems their whole life. We see this a fair amount in large breed puppies at work (I work for a board certified vet surgeon) and one of my dog's brothers had it too. The surgery had a great success rate (when done by a qualified surgeon) so I wouldn't hesitate to have it done. Hopefully it's just a normal puppy growth issue, but I just wanted to give you a heads up on the other since it's such a time sensitive issue.
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Foster pup
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
that food helps very very well, check it out
Eagle Pack Super Premium Pet Foods

Eagle Pack Pet Foods, Inc.

just check out both links, that will help you with the legs and to get a answer

Thanks for the links. Such sad pictures. He shows no lameness or decreased activity where you think he had pain. We are watching it closely and are putting him to 2 meals a day rather than the recommended 3. I will keep you posted on what the vet says.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Please do not just feed your 10 week old puppy twice a day wait until he is about 6 months old before feeding twice a day. Feeding twice a day or three times a day has nothing to do with his bowed legs. Just check the protein in the food I personally went with what my breeder said to do since I got my boy at 16 weeks fed him adult food.All Life Stages.Good Luck
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Old 03-27-2010, 01:45 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patches Mom View Post
Please do not just feed your 10 week old puppy twice a day wait until he is about 6 months old before feeding twice a day. Feeding twice a day or three times a day has nothing to do with his bowed legs. Just check the protein in the food I personally went with what my breeder said to do since I got my boy at 16 weeks fed him adult food.All Life Stages.Good Luck
I second that - do not reduce the number of feedings - that won't help at all.
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Hailey had bowed front legs, but she was also in the hospital for a couple days with HOD. We changed her diet and she is now doing a lot better.
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:10 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I like Natural Balance Ultra Premium ...It's made for dogs throughout all life stages (puppy through adult)
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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My recently aquired doberman pup is now almost 14 weeks and his right front leg is looking almost identical to the OP's picture. He went to the vet on Friday and I paid 41 bucks for the vet to wiggle his leg around and tell me to come back Monday for xrays if it doesn't look better.

After doing a lot of searching and reading, we have wrapped the leg and switched him from Kirkland Puppy to the much lower protein Natural Balance all life stages.

We caught it before it got too bad so I really hope this has a happy ending. We are hoping to put titles on him when he gets older.
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Old 03-28-2010, 08:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have to agree the large breed puppy food is to high in protein, no matter what company.
Find a quality adult food with lower protein and in a few weeks you should see an improvement.
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Old 03-28-2010, 08:22 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Looking at your picture I see another problem, I don't know if anyone else has experienced this but I have read many cases where puppies get this because of smooth flooring.
The puppy has a hard time standing and walking on the floors without their feet sliding out so they try and sturdy themselves and it causes knuckling over.
If your home has little or no carpeting this may be causing serious issues.

When we got Kilo we took all the rugs off (for potty accidents obviously). He would rarely run in the house, refused to sit and wouldn't lay down on the floor.
If he ran he would wipe out, if he sat his feet would slide out, laying down - not sure exactly why but he wasn't comfortable. When we put the carpets back down all of this changed. We did not experience knuckling over however as he was potty trained within weeks and I put the rugs down everywhere to avoid this exact problem having read numerous cases.
In some cases, braces where required to correct the problem but I believe it was at older ages.
I'd say change his food and make sure he isn't constantly on smooth floors.


Just tried to find the website I read this off of, did not find it but I did find many others that say the same thing:
WARNING:

YOUR PUPPY SHOULD NOT BE KEPT ON CONCRETE, TILE OR WOOD FLOORS WHERE THERE IS NO SURFACE FOR THEM TO GRIP WITH THEIR TOES AND USE THEIR MUSCLES, LIGAMENTS AND TENDONS PROPERLY.

SLICK SURFACES CONTRIBUTE TO BOWING IN AND KNUCKLING OVER. PUT DOWN RUBBER BACKED THROW RUGS (NO FRINGE AND NO CONTINUOUS LOOP CARPETING!!) SO YOU CAN WASH THEM, YET THE DOGS HAVE A SURFACE TO WALK ON FOR PROPER DEVELOPMENT!


Knuckling Over and HOD - Developmental Orthopedic Disease | GREATDANELADY.COM
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Old 03-30-2010, 01:16 AM   #19 (permalink)
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If you are adding cottage cheese or any other additives stop and feed only the good kibble.
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Old 03-30-2010, 03:06 AM   #20 (permalink)
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While Innova is a good food, I would not feed the puppy formula and use the adult formula. I don't think I would wait to get those x-rays either given the deformity I am seeing in your photo. I'd get those growth plates checked immediately by the vet. Do not feed supplemental calcium to a puppy either as this can create problems as well.

Mariah has been fed Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato since I got her at 9 weeks of age. Pinnacle Holistic Allergen-Free Dog Food Formulas. I feed Drago Solid Gold Wolf King (Adult formula) when he was a puppy and he did very well on this diet. Solid Gold Northwest - Products - WolfKing Bison Large/Medium Breed Adult Dog Food

Good luck and keep us posted. Tracy, Drago, and Mariah
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:33 AM   #21 (permalink)
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To Lina&Kilo,
I have come across that website with my research.. the only problem is our house is wall to wall hard wood. Can't really do anything about that.. maybe an area rug? He has had some wipeouts during playing and excitement but that seems to have improved over the last week.. maybe more coordination as well.

Dragonman..
We are not giving him any calcium although the vet said he would like him on a vitamin (consisting of calcium) on his first puppy wellness check. He didnt have the leg issue then.. but I have stopped giving that to him once I noticed this (only had about 5 days of vitamin).

I have heard a lot about changing his food to adult. I plan on discussing this Saturday with the vet before doing so... because I have also read that changing the food multiple times can contribute to this as well. THe past few days his legs don't seem as bowed out. Still has a little "knucking" look like 50% of the time while sitting.. but possibly better.


Thanks everyone for feedback! I appreciate it all. I will def look into getting an area rug for the floor to see if that helps.
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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An update on Blitz, he has been eating Natural Balance all life stages for a few days now and I'm already noticing an improvement. Still not completely better but he's on the mend.
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Old 04-03-2010, 02:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Hi everyone.. update on Moose

Went to the vet today. She said everything looks good. Is happy we are feeding him large breed puppy Innova. She said if it was anything to worry about he would show signs of angulation at his knuckles (which were fine). She said he is just going to be a big boy but keep an eye on it and if he becomes lame with playing to bring him by.

So relieved! His legs are straightening out as he grows into his frame as well.
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