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Old 03-03-2010, 05:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Sulfa drugs a no-no?

My older Dobe is on some prescription drugs for a stomach bout we went through for the past few days. I read them to my breeder to get input and one in particular made a red flag go off in her head. I went through archives and found out,sure enough, it is not advised to give this to your Doberman unless completely necc. It was posted that it causes' immune complex polyarthropathy' and occular problems. I googled these terms and they are way over my head lol. Can anyone break down for me what these 'Sulfa' drugs do. Dobe was prescribed Sulfatrim to be precise. This finding is apperently directly from the DPCA website.
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Old 03-03-2010, 06:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I am not up on all the meds, have heard things about sulfa drugs. Best to ask your Vet.
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLS View Post
I am not up on all the meds, have heard things about sulfa drugs. Best to ask your Vet.
He's pretty dim with Dobes as a breed, he hasn't heard about it. My original Vet. recently retired so im in a limbo until i find a vet that fits my 'niche'.
So i hope Dt can help, maby some vets or veteran dobe lovers that can open a window here that are aware of this. Or i might have to crack open a Medical dictionary lol.
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I stay away from sulfa drugs. Fiddler had a very, very bad reaction to some medication that a vet gave me. I guess he had no idea that it could be bad for Dobermans. I don't know exactly know what the drugs do to the body, but Fiddler's body did NOT like it. Soon after taking the medication, he got a fever, had a lot of trouble standing & walking, and acted liked he was hallucinating. I immediately took him back to the vet so that they could use other drugs to counter what they had just given him.
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuerhund View Post
My older Dobe is on some prescription drugs for a stomach bout we went through for the past few days. I read them to my breeder to get input and one in particular made a red flag go off in her head. I went through archives and found out,sure enough, it is not advised to give this to your Doberman unless completely necc. It was posted that it causes' immune complex polyarthropathy' and occular problems. I googled these terms and they are way over my head lol. Can anyone break down for me what these 'Sulfa' drugs do. Dobe was prescribed Sulfatrim to be precise. This finding is apperently directly from the DPCA website.
Click this:

http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/PDF/018%20NSAIDS.pdf
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Old 03-04-2010, 12:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salamander View Post
I didn't realize Rimadyl and Deramaxx were sulfa drugs. Thanks for that link!
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Old 03-04-2010, 01:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Do certain Sulfa drugs affect Dobes worse than others? I know, for example, many dogs on here, Perrin included, have been given Albon to treat coccidia. He did have some runny stool during and for about a month after treatment, but no other side effects.

Just fyi, he was taken back to the vet about the soft stool, they rechecked him and said he was fine. His stoold are normal now.
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I didn't realize Rimadyl and Deramaxx were sulfa drugs. Thanks for that link!
You're quite welcome.

I'm a maniac for researching whatever has been handed to me to put in my dogs.....
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I have a note on all my dogs' charts (even the Vizslas) NO SULFA Drugs both at my regular vet and ER vet we use.
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Koko was prescribed sulfasalazine in a low dosage to help with bloody diarrhea that had been on and off for several years. It was a last resort and very low dosage, but she still had a really bad reaction.

She has had rimadyl (generic form) multiple times and has been fine. She's had it after surgery, nasty bladder infection and for her back at times. With her, she is so sensitive to a lot of drugs, we just use it when we have to in a low dosage to help with pain without causing something horrible (which has happened in the past). If knew our other choices didn't have worse consequences for her, I wouldn't use it though.
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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What about Tramadol? Frankie is on it because another med she's on means she can't have Rimadyl. Does anyone know why they wouldn't just use this instead?

I will definitely have my vet's office put a note on Silas' chart. Great idea.
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Old 03-06-2010, 04:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KokoPuffs View Post
Koko was prescribed sulfasalazine in a low dosage to help with bloody diarrhea that had been on and off for several years. It was a last resort and very low dosage, but she still had a really bad reaction.

She has had rimadyl (generic form) multiple times and has been fine. She's had it after surgery, nasty bladder infection and for her back at times. With her, she is so sensitive to a lot of drugs, we just use it when we have to in a low dosage to help with pain without causing something horrible (which has happened in the past). If knew our other choices didn't have worse consequences for her, I wouldn't use it though.
For short term use, I've ever had any problems with Tramadol.
It didn't even bother my ultra-drug-sensitive Ibizans.

Never had to use it for more than a few days, though.

For minor, passing aches, I use enteric coated low dose aspirin, such as Etogesic.


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Old 03-12-2010, 01:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I came back to re-read this thread and I mis-spoke/mis-read.

Rimadyl is NOT a sulfa drug, it's just the Deramaxx. It is listed with the Deramaxx in the article so my skimming mistakenly equated them both with sulfa.

Just clarifying!
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Old 03-12-2010, 02:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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What about Tramadol? Frankie is on it because another med she's on means she can't have Rimadyl. Does anyone know why they wouldn't just use this instead?

I will definitely have my vet's office put a note on Silas' chart. Great idea.
It is a different type of med. Pain relief but not an anti-inflammatory. The vet may want NSAID for the anti inflammatory properties.
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Tramadol made Cheers totally loopy when on it for that thigh injury. Just something to keep in mind....it did make her just lay around and rest.
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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yes, rimadyl is not a sulfa drug.

tramadol is not an NSAID.

and etogesic is not an enteric coated aspirin.

be careful.
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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For short term use, I've ever had any problems with Tramadol.
It didn't even bother my ultra-drug-sensitive Ibizans.

Never had to use it for more than a few days, though.

For minor, passing aches, I use enteric coated low dose aspirin, such as Etogesic.


.
I stay away from aspirin and similar drugs especially with dna affected vwd. These drugs can cause excessive bleeding and coupled with affected vwd you could have a major problem.
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:34 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by doberkim View Post
yes, rimadyl is not a sulfa drug.

tramadol is not an NSAID.

and etogesic is not an enteric coated aspirin.

be careful.
Thanks Kim,

You saved me a lot of typing. As far as sulfa drugs go--you don't really need to know exactly what the mechanism is that causes reactions you just need to know that Dobes (and a couple of other breeds) are more likely to react to sulfa drugs than other breeds.

Sulfonamide allergies are common--I'm allergic to sulfa drugs.

Some sulfa drugs are more likely to cause allergies than others. Albon, which does have a sulfa radical generally doesn't caused problems--it's been prescribed and used without incident on several of my Dobe puppies who had coccidiosis. Metronidazol also has a sulfa radical and the only adverse reaction I've ever heard of with it was on a non-dobe.

The biggest offenders are the antibiotic sulfa drugs: "In people with adverse reactions to sulfonamide antibiotics, all other sulfonamide antibiotics should be avoided. These include trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (SeptraŽ, BactrimŽ and generics), sulfadizine, sulfisoxazole, and dapsone."

There are a number of other so called "non-antibiotic" sulfa drugs but in general because it is known that Dobes tend to be more likely to react to sulfa drugs the recommendation is to avoid them.

Incidental information: While I had a dog who lived comfortably for his last three years on EtoGesic I had another who had an instant and frightening reaction--one pill and he was pooping frank blood. The best protection when giving meds to any dog is to make sure that you are familiar with possible reactions so that you don't continue to medicate a dog with something that is causing problems.

The dog who reacted to the EtoGesic had degenerative disc disease in his later years--he was on low dosages of tramadol for several years for that. It can be given in conjunction with NSAID's and often is for dogs with very painful things like osteosarcomas.

As always--all of this should be discussed with your vet--there are often reasons why one drug is given in preference to others and there are drugs which should never be used in conjunction with others.

But not all vet know all of the breed specific potential problems--so I try to go armed with what I've learned in 50 years of Dobermans and if I don't recognise a drug I ask for the literature and I've turned down a couple of sulfonamides that were prescribed and explained why. Some vets know and some don't--most that I've dealt with are glad to hear about breed specific problems and change meds accordingly.
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by feuerhund View Post
My older Dobe is on some prescription drugs for a stomach bout we went through for the past few days. I read them to my breeder to get input and one in particular made a red flag go off in her head. I went through archives and found out,sure enough, it is not advised to give this to your Doberman unless completely necc. It was posted that it causes' immune complex polyarthropathy' and occular problems. I googled these terms and they are way over my head lol. Can anyone break down for me what these 'Sulfa' drugs do. Dobe was prescribed Sulfatrim to be precise. This finding is apperently directly from the DPCA website.
When my puppy girl had a mild cystitis (bladder infection) my vet wanted to give her a Sulfa med,(as that is used for infections like that I guess) but I told him to check first cause Dobes can't tolerate certain meds like that, and sure enough he checked and decided to give her cephalexin instead and it did the trick just as well with no side effects.
A sulfa drug contains sulphur, or is a derivative of sulphur and used for certain bacterial infections. For some reason Dobes are sensitive to sulphur-(sulpha/sulfa) just like Shelties and Collies are sensitive to Ivermectin....

NSAIDS means a non steroidal anti inflammatory, which would fit just about any anti-inflammatory that does not have steroid properties, like aspirin, etc. And just about all anti inflammatory meds can cause slow clotting times. It must affect the platelets in the blood in some way.
With any med, or chemical put into the body, a person should understand the good affects as well as any side affects or possible reactions. whether it is for them or their dogs...ask questions, ask questions, ask questions is all I can say when you go to the vet!! And if they don't know don't let them prescribe something for your dog, until they do some investigating...and have a viable answer..

immune complex arthropathy would most likely be like rhuemotoid arthritis is in people or lupus,affecting the entire body, and occular would have something to do with the eyes/vision...
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Old 03-14-2010, 12:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Retta View Post
When my puppy girl had a mild cystitis (bladder infection) my vet wanted to give her a Sulfa med,(as that is used for infections like that I guess) but I told him to check first cause Dobes can't tolerate certain meds like that, and sure enough he checked and decided to give her cephalexin instead and it did the trick just as well with no side effects.
One of the very commonest antibiotic sulfonamides is generally the one prescribed for UTI's and bladder infections for people--I've had to remind doctors about the fact that I am allergic to sulfa drugs practically every time I've ever had such an infection because they almost always just go on automatic pilot and prescribe the sulfa drug.

Quote:
A sulfa drug contains sulphur, or is a derivative of sulphur and used for certain bacterial infections. For some reason Dobes are sensitive to sulphur-(sulpha/sulfa) just like Shelties and Collies are sensitive to Ivermectin....
While sulfa drugs (sulfonamides) do contain sulfur it is not actually the sulfur (which is a common element and found in a variety of protein molecules in organic compounds as well as being present in a huge number of inorganic compounds) that Dobes (and other breeds who have tendencies to react to sulfonamides) are sensitive to. They are sensitive to the sulfonamide radical (which contains other elements--like Oxygen as part of its make up)

Quote:
NSAIDS means a non steroidal anti inflammatory, which would fit just about any anti-inflammatory that does not have steroid properties, like aspirin, etc. And just about all anti inflammatory meds can cause slow clotting times. It must affect the platelets in the blood in some way.
With any med, or chemical put into the body, a person should understand the good affects as well as any side affects or possible reactions. whether it is for them or their dogs...ask questions, ask questions, ask questions is all I can say when you go to the vet!! And if they don't know don't let them prescribe something for your dog, until they do some investigating...and have a viable answer..
I absolutely agree that being able to discuss medication with your vet--ask them for the literature on a drug you may not be familiar with and asking questions is an important part of making sure the treatment your dog is receiving is important.
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doberkim View Post
yes, rimadyl is not a sulfa drug.

tramadol is not an NSAID.

and etogesic is not an enteric coated aspirin.

be careful.
CRAP!

Ecotrin!

NOT Etogesic.

[I have no idea where I pulled that out of]

Sorry!


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