Longevity

MandysBlackRoses · 04-10-2007, 09:55 AM

Hey guys,

I have been waiting a few weeks for some info I requested from my breeder. I got it today. In my contract it states something to the purpose of my right to know how long my lines live. I got four generation of vet records, of my dogs lines stating how the dogs died and from what causes. One is a necropsy report. The others are all regular computer print offs with the diffrent Vets logo Ph number and address. Basically a reciet stub.

The Dam is 3 this was her first litter. The sire is 4. One of Her grandmothers is also alive at 8, the other died at 7 with no reason given. The Sire's father lived until almost his 9th birthday before some form of cancer got him. The dams Sire died at 7 from a form of cancer.The rest of the pedigree shows dogs living until 7,9 and 10, and even 11 with the exception of one dog who died at 4 from bloat. The cancer is really scaring me. How normal is it to show this much in only 4 generations? This pedigree of deaths in not totaly complete, but almost. I think it's really neat to look at all this stuff. The average life span seems to be around 9. God that is too short of a time. And I wonder how many dogs in between died and of what? She said she had a pup with an enlarged heart born 2 years ago.

Do you guys know how long your lines live on average? I think it's really neat she keeps this stuff, and makes copies for everyone. She never says her lines are without any medical issues, but that they live rather long lifes. What is the average age for a dobe to live?? I know I have read it before, but it can't be as short as 8 can it??

alwayshadpets · 04-10-2007, 10:13 AM

I don`t think the doberman is the healthiest breed out there, but once you have one you are hooked for life. I lost my dobies as young as a just turned 6 to 9 years old.
They died mainly from cancer.
Tamora I bought from a breeder that tries for health and longevity. (Never any guarantees though) If she loses them at 9, she considers that early for her line. The longest was 13 1/2 years plus. She says there are a few breeders out there that are trying.
Tamora (for me) was bought for health & longevity (my main research). I pray it happens.
I`m glad your breeder shared her lines health with you. All breeders should.

hbwright · 04-10-2007, 11:08 AM

The breeder that I'm hoping to buy from in the next couple years (possibly, IDK though since we got Jordan) has a very good line of longevity. That is what I was looking for after losing one from congestive heart failure at 8 and then my girl at 9 1/2 from sudden death from DCM. Her lines have an average lifespan of 10 1/2 years which to me is pretty phenomenal and she does have a retired breeder female who is happily and healthily living at the age of 13.

ITA that the live spans of my heavenly babies was just way to short and heartbreaking. I am still in shock with the loss of my girl at 9 1/2 just 3 months ago. I didn't put too much stock in longevity when I purchased her but now is one of the top priorities when looking for a breeder. I just know with Jordan it is a gamble since we have no idea where he came from, who, etc. It makes me sad to even think about it but at least I know that he will lead a good life no matter how long it is.

MandysBlackRoses · 04-10-2007, 11:22 AM

Our breeder has a 12 year old still alive. She is an aunt to my pups. This was the first time she used the pups Sire an outside stud. But his owner had not kept great records. Her stud has lines living a bit further it seems. Much around 10 then this studs 7/8 year average.

It really sucks. I think that when the "ripe" ages come, it's just the beginning of really knowing your dog and having that super close bond that has taken years to build. And it's not fair, as the next thing is dealing with age issues and then death. I think we as pet owners, putting our selves through deaths of our pets must take a toll. For alot of people it would be like nothing LESS then losing a human child. I think longevity should be a priority in breeding. I don't care how well put together, or work minded the dog is if it's not going to live more then 7 years. My Boston's life span is considerably more. Nearing 15 plus years. Why is it the little ones live longer?

MaryAndDobes · 04-10-2007, 11:32 AM

According to a survey done several years ago of nearly 900 Dobermans, the average age for males was 9.25 and it was 9.5 for females. That was the basis of the DPCA longevity program, to recognize Dobermans that lived to 10 and beyond because it's considered "extraordinary" (being longer than the average.)

I find it odd that the breeder would give you this information *after* the purchase.

You're right - longevity should be a priority in breeding. However, how to do that is the crux. Females have to be bred by a certain age. We can't sit around waiting to find out if they're going to be long lived. We can breed to older males and that is something I think is advisable. We can wait a little longer with the females. Instead of breeding at 2 as many do for the first time, I prefer to wait until 4. But then there is the whole issue of pedigree and the importance of dogs NOT on the pedigree - IOW, the siblings of those dogs. Should we all flock to a certain dog that had a sire who lived to be 14 for eg if all his siblings died young? There are a lot of different aspects to look at and try to balance.

joce · 04-10-2007, 11:35 AM

I really think a lot of its breeding. When I was little my parents bred labs-ours didn't die till fifteen unless it was an accident. You can't find a lab now who will make it to ten without being crippled

My dad looked into getting into the field work again and he just couldn't find anyone who would guarantee a long living dog.

My byron is seven now-he is in better health than a lot of younger dobes I meet,its all very sad.

I know a couple years ago I looked into berneese mountain dogs and they were begining a longevity program were the dogs that live ten plus years are tracked-I think this is a great idea!

the little dogs live longer in general because there is less stress on them I would assume-same as I've heard those giant people don't live as long because the body just can only go for so long.

My beagle is fifteen and shows no signs of slowing down(except her eyesight is a bit off). She'll act old till you pull out a treat and then she is more alive than all the other dogs! But we got her sister from the pound at the same time and she was put down at a very young age for health issues so I guess my girl just got lucky-I could see her going just fine to twenty.

MandysBlackRoses · 04-10-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaryAndDobes

According to a survey done several years ago of nearly 900 Dobermans, the average age for males was 9.25 and it was 9.5 for females. That was the basis of the DPCA longevity program, to recognize Dobermans that lived to 10 and beyond because it's considered "extraordinary" (being longer than the average.)

I find it odd that the breeder would give you this information *after* the purchase.

You're right - longevity should be a priority in breeding. However, how to do that is the crux. Females have to be bred by a certain age. We can't sit around waiting to find out if they're going to be long lived. We can breed to older males and that is something I think is advisable. We can wait a little longer with the females. Instead of breeding at 2 as many do for the first time, I prefer to wait until 4. But then there is the whole issue of pedigree and the importance of dogs NOT on the pedigree - IOW, the siblings of those dogs. Should we all flock to a certain dog that had a sire who lived to be 14 for eg if all his siblings died young? There are a lot of different aspects to look at and try to balance.

Nothing Odd about it. It was information given at request, and I requested it a few weeks ago for my records. Of course we talked about it before the pups came home. Quite a bit actully. It's not something she HAS to provide. (Though maybe all breeders should if you wanted it) But something she offers to those who would like it. She dished out the postage on this package, and the photo copies too. Which was nice of her.
It's nothing fancy, just a pile of papers she tries to put together for records. Prob for her own research. But I find nothing Odd about sharing them when I asked.

We actully were not going to until my husband and I were talking about how much time it would take to do the things we wanted to try. And he said something about them living alot older then what the breed says, and I educated him that it was no where near the 15 years he was thinking of. We thought it might be helpful to get an idea of what we are looking at for time with them. She has only recently got the information on the outside stud.

I think waiting a bit longer to breed bitches would be a great idea.

**velmadobe** · 04-10-2007, 01:14 PM

Good breeders do the health testing and try to steer clear of health issues, but it is not the most long lived or healthyest breed out there for sure. My last Doberman lived to 11 and died of bloat. She was full of lumps and we (my vet and I) suspect that she had a large tumor that caused her stomach to flip.

Because we breed dogs while they are young, it is impossible to know all the longevity at that time. An older sire is a great idea but is not always possible for various reasons. I do try to keep up on ages, and need to start getting some of that info in writing before I breed Louise.

My Velma has some wonderful longevity in her lines. On her maternal side, her grandparents both died this past year at age 12 (grandsire) and almost 12 (grandmother), on her Sires side her Grandsire is still going at 11 and her grandmother is around 9. Velma is currently 4 1/2 - and I hope she lives a long time also, but I know that anything past 10 is cake.

**Jenny** · 04-10-2007, 04:21 PM

Is there any way to find out what kind of cancer is in their lines? I'd be curious. Some might be hereditary (sp?) some might be by chance.

lanabana · 04-10-2007, 04:43 PM

I guess I don't even want to think that Bumpy won't live to a ripe old age. I am not very good at dealing with pet deaths, really who is, I suppose. My cat lived to be 19 and my pit/lab is about to reach 14....and he really hasn't slowed down much. Sometimes I think he is losing his hearing, but most of the time I think he is just ignoring me....because when the treat jar opens he ALWAYS seems to hear that

.

Bumpy is just 15 months old, so I guess I have some time and being that he does have some health issues, I would be afraid to even hear what his breeders would tell me regarding longevity (since they didn't even health test). So sad to even think of losing our little angels early.