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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-29-2017, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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Sore spots on rear legs

So I just noticed that Mocha has 2 small sore spots, about the size of half a dime, on the inside of each back leg, right where the joint (elbow) is. And I only noticed because there was a spot of blood on her pillow and I started checking her out real good. The one on one leg looks like it's been there a while, and the other one is the one where the blood came from, looks like something scraped the skin right off. Now I'm wondering how the heck she got those sores...looks like she rubbed against something really hard, or, could she be licking or biting those areas? I haven't noticed her doing so, which leaves me stumped how she could have gotten those sores. She does have a bad habit of running up and down the wooden deck stairs, and sometimes even jumping from about halfway to the concrete slab at the bottom when she sees a squirrel out in the yard...looks like I'll really have to keep a super close eye on her.



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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-29-2017, 10:15 PM
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Sounds close to the areas where Kip licks his hind legs when he is determined to start a lick granuloma. But not quite.....
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-30-2017, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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The more I read about it, the more I think that's the issue. Although I've never seen her lick those areas, that doesn't mean she doesn't since she is often home alone for hours (boredom?)...time for a trip to the vet and some close monitoring.



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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-30-2017, 10:50 AM
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My vet calls Kip a “closet licker”. If it ends up being a lick granuloma, I hope you can catch the problem early...it’s a bear to manage.

For a rear leg sore, you can tape a loose sock if she doesn’t try to eat it on her rear leg right above the hock/ankle where her leg is thinner (just tight enough so you can get the tip of your little finger inside the tape--you don’t have to actually tape the sock to her fur); generally it will stay on pretty well. You can also prevent the sock from getting dirty or wet by clipping off the bottom of the sock so that her foot hangs out and then taping the bottom of the sock just above her foot (again not to her fur, just around the sock).

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-30-2017, 11:10 AM
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Hi TN, I tend to agree with Melbrod. McCoy generally just suckles his bedding, which I allow because he never chews anymore and his very durable beds are washable.

However once in a while, he will decide that his inner thigh looks like a lollipop. He can start an irritation in a matter of no time. Having no desire for this to get infected or move towards something potentially serious (like a lick granuloma), I nip it in the bud. I check his inner thighs everyday. I am lucky, a little cleaning (Ketflex), some aloe and a bit of redirection and he leaves it alone.

I tend to attribute this behavior to my boy's general tendency to exhibit some of the milder symptoms of Doberman OCD.

Here is a pretty decent article on the subject: OCD in a Doberman - Pets

I hope this gives you some insight into this phenomenon.

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-31-2017, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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Vet appointment tomorrow; I'm going to suggest (and please do pipe in with any advice) treating the sores with meds, maybe doing a scrape or biopsy to see if it is lick granuloma, and then wrapping the areas until they can heal and then going from there. In the meantime, increased monitoring to ensure Mocha isn't indeed licking those areas. My wife and I talked about it and both of us agree that we've never seen Mocha lick herself there, or anywhere else, really, so this is quite the mystery, unless she's doing it once she's alone in the house, which is very possible (boredom, separation anxiety(?)). If it was OCD based, I would think we'd be seeing it happening, agree?
There's still the possibility that she's scraping her hocks/elbows as she's running/jumping down the deck stairs...our deck is about 10 feet off the ground and she has a very bad habit of running full speed down and up the stairs...I've actually thought about getting rid of the stairs and turning them into a ramp because I worry abut her catching a leg in the spaces in between the stairs, the way she runs/jumps up and down.



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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-31-2017, 08:47 PM
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Hope all goes well at the vets tomorrow.

Can you post some pics of the owie?

Hugz to Mocha.

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-31-2017, 09:13 PM
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@ TN

" If it was OCD based, I would think we'd be seeing it happening, agree?"

In my experience, yes. Dogs exhibiting symptoms of Doberman OCD, do not tend to be secretive about their behavior. This is because it is pretty much impulsive (compulsive?) and uncontrollable.

Others may have differing opinions, but I do speak from experience. Years ago I had a boy who basically spent most of his life muzzled (in our absence) as a result of his serious pica affliction. No training could abate this behavior. Other than that, he was a wonderful dog. Plus, he got used to the basket muzzle in no time. He pretty much treated it the same way most dogs treat their collars. (Today, my dogs roll naked, except for the occasional bandana, LOL).

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 11:03 AM
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A scrape won't tell you if it's a lick granuloma, because all that is is an area that the dog has licked off. It may or may not be bad enough to be infected. A scrape COULD tell you if you have something else, like a spot of mange, or staph, or something. Depending on the placement, you could have the very beginnings of something like a pressure sore, but it doesn't sound like a place where it could be that?

It *might* be an anxiety type of licking if she only does it while you are away, if it's more of a self-soothing type of licking, if she's just mildly anxious when alone. If you had any sort of camera monitoring you could set up to watch her while you're gone for a couple of days you might be able to rule that out (licking for whatever reason while not supervised). I use my treat cam to spy on the dogs while I'm not home occasionally. Works like a charm, and it was pretty inexpensive.


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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkevs View Post
Hope all goes well at the vets tomorrow.

Can you post some pics of the owie?

Hugz to Mocha.
Right leg, this was the one that was bleeding the other day which caused us to check her and notice not only this sore, but a few others.


Also right leg, but bottom of the elbow or joint. Notice there's another sore, already with a scab on it, to the left.



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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
A scrape won't tell you if it's a lick granuloma, because all that is is an area that the dog has licked off. It may or may not be bad enough to be infected. A scrape COULD tell you if you have something else, like a spot of mange, or staph, or something. Depending on the placement, you could have the very beginnings of something like a pressure sore, but it doesn't sound like a place where it could be that?

It *might* be an anxiety type of licking if she only does it while you are away, if it's more of a self-soothing type of licking, if she's just mildly anxious when alone. If you had any sort of camera monitoring you could set up to watch her while you're gone for a couple of days you might be able to rule that out (licking for whatever reason while not supervised). I use my treat cam to spy on the dogs while I'm not home occasionally. Works like a charm, and it was pretty inexpensive.
Hmmm I must have read wrong, I thought one of the articles I read said if it's progressed to a certain point, the vet could do a biopsy or scrape to see if it's lick granuloma (or maybe they meant, to rule out other issues?)
We do have a video camera in our living room which faces the front door and the pillow she sleeps on while we're gone, we do check it from time to time but she's always asleep, so pretty boring stuff ha ha. Maybe I'll have to check in like every 10 minutes or so.



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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 12:24 PM
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Hmmm I must have read wrong, I thought one of the articles I read said if it's progressed to a certain point, the vet could do a biopsy or scrape to see if it's lick granuloma (or maybe they meant, to rule out other issues?)
We do have a video camera in our living room which faces the front door and the pillow she sleeps on while we're gone, we do check it from time to time but she's always asleep, so pretty boring stuff ha ha. Maybe I'll have to check in like every 10 minutes or so.
Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.

If you don't see her licking on camera I really don't think that's what it is...you'd probably also catch her doing it at other times. I wonder if it's some kind of allergic reaction?


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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.

If you don't see her licking on camera I really don't think that's what it is...you'd probably also catch her doing it at other times. I wonder if it's some kind of allergic reaction?
Hopefully we can find out here in about 30 minutes I swear, I take more time off work to care for this girl than I do for anything else. But I hope to remedy that with our week long trip to Florida here in a few weeks



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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 12:27 PM
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I don’t remember exactly what our vet said...if there was a diagnostic test or what...but I do remember her saying that if you look at a tissue sample of a lick granuloma, you can see that it is a bunch of different kinds of tissues all jumbled up together...not just a simple scrape injury.

Here’s a quote to that effect from a pretty good article on pet MD:

"The skin is so deeply affected that even down to the base layer of the skin there can be found under the microscope little pockets of bacteria, broken hair follicles, plugged and scarred oil glands and dilated and inflamed capillaries."
Acral Lick Granuloma: A Dermatology Nightmare | petMD

But it doesn’t really say if a biopsy or skin scrape is a diagnostic test????

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 12:40 PM
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Thanks for the pics... To me the sores do look lick the beginning of a lick granuloma. The locations sure are right. Then again, I am not a vet.

Good luck at your real vet!

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Based on the fact that we never. ever see her licking, the vet thinks the sores are from Mocha scraping skin off while jumping/running up and down the stairs. Especially some of the healed spots, she said there's almost no way Mocha could have reached them to lick.

So for now, neosporin 2-3 times a day while watching Mocha and the spots to make sure they heal ok.



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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 01:49 PM
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Great news!
I mean, not the scrapes...but if that is all they are and not lick granulomas (speaking as someone who has had to deal with a “licker”), that’s a huge relief.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Yep. Based on the fact there are a couple with scabs on them (healing), and that we never see her lick these areas, the vet thinks they're just scrapes. I feel kind of silly now for taking her but, hey, better safe than sorry and it's only money



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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 11:07 PM
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Definitely if you suspect lick granulomas it’s worth a vet visit. If they have a scratch or splinter, they often lick and it gets irritated, so they keep licking to relieve the irritation, and it gets worse, and they lick more......A little bit of this and I think most dobes get OCD about it.

VERY difficult to break an OCD licking habit. It is a tension relief thing too--so if you get one sore healed, they’ll find a place to start a new one.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-03-2017, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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We've been putting Neosporin on them every day and they're almost healed already, so this silly girl needs to learn how to go up and down those stairs just a bit slower and more careful (yeah I know, good luck with that lol).



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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-03-2017, 09:33 PM
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Well, thank goodness that the injuries were superficial. Several years ago, one of my son's boy's had inflamed front leg elbows. Not so much inflamed.... More like a classic hygroma. Like what dogs can get by repetitively lying on a hard surface. Lots of fluid build up. It turned out to be impact trauma, either from his bounding down their very steep stairs, or from jumping in the back of my daughter in law's Jeep.

It required no meds, but took a good 6 months to heal.

BTW, McCoy is also a stair bounder. Drives me nuts! LOL

John
Portland OR
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 12:48 PM
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My lab mix (Messi) is developing similar callouses/skuffs on his skin near his elbows on his rear legs. I believe it's from the way he lays down. the skin looks like it shifts when he's sitting so the callouses line up with his elbow bones.

He doesn't "lay down" like a normal dog who brings the front half of his body to the floor and then the back. He braces with his front paws and lets the back half of his body slide on the wood floor. Pretty sure this is causing these marks. For now I'm keeping an eye on them and hoping they don't become a bigger problem. He's not chewing or licking them (that I can see), and they are definitely not bleeding like the ones you pictured. But he's worn the fur off those patches...
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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 02:06 PM
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Sounds like it could just be calluses. They show up on elbows quite often, not as much on the rear legs. You could try to get him to lie on soft surfaces (though it doesn’t sound like that is really an option if he’s lying down oddly every time he lies down). Just keep watching for open cracks, a lot of licking or fluid sacs developing under the callus. Other than that...unsightly sometimes, but not harmful.
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