She just dropped like a a string puppet - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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She just dropped like a a string puppet

Haven Mae was walking on Mother's Day and playing in the yard and I noticed her stutter step like she short circuited or something for a minute but then she was fine. 10 minutes later it looked like she had stepped in a hole and lost her footing but there was no hole. This week my gf walks her at night and she said she fell three times last night. My friend walks her and runs with her during the day and he is very good with dogs as fat as attentiveness and handling and he says she has been fine. Well today I take her to work with me and we get to the house and the customers are petting her and she walks by me and she dropped straight down like she passed out. I mean it was all the sudden no staggering or nothing she dropped all the way to the ground and I heard her chin hit the ground and make that closing whop! Sound like when you get a uppercut and your mouth is open. Once she hit she popped back up and was all fine. The customer was outside and came in 30 minutes later and said she did it again. I've been watching her all day and she hasn't done it anymore but something is wrong. It was like your playing a string puppet and you cut the string that's how she fell. She had zero control of her muscles until she hit the ground. Scariest **** I've ever seen an animal do and I'm worried to death what could be wrong with her. Any info on this?


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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 04:16 PM
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Take her to your veterinarian immediately. You have let it progress to the point of her collapse and it is now an emergency. She should have been taken to the vet the first time you noticed this happen, as it is probably a sign of something VERY wrong. I urge you to take this very serious and please get her medical attention.

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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 04:40 PM
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Run, don't walk to a veterinarian and get her heart checked first and foremost. Hoping things work out well for her!
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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 04:48 PM
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That warrants a veterinary ER visit. Go now.

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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 05:25 PM
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I won't sugar coat it. This sounds like DCM (serious heart condition) that plagues a lot of Dobermans. Take her to the vet and hope for a miracle. I'll pray for your baby.
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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 05:25 PM
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Oh... I am going to concur with the above comments.. This sounds like Ventricular Tachycardia to me. A symptom of DCM. You need to see a canine cardiologist ASAP. Our boy, Butcher, who died a few years ago, had a very similar episode.Unlike your girl he almost died. With proper care and medication, he lived almost a normal Doberman life expectancy.

He did die from "sudden death syndrome" but between his initial episodes, and his passing, with meds, he was basically symptom free.

This is not something that you can put off. You need to see a specialist.

This is just my opinion, but we have been there.

Best to you and your girl....

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Last edited by 4x4bike ped; 05-19-2017 at 05:29 PM.
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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 05:36 PM
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If you're worried to death you should be taking her to the vet asap. I'm hoping it's not DCM related but something else.
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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 01:06 PM
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I was thinking about this whle I pruned the camllias and it sounds like syncope (fainting or suden uncncisousness) and I'll repeat what nealy eveyone else has suggested. Syncope can be associated with several types of cardio issues as well as several other things that mkay be related to neurological issues.

All are no good news things and should be looked nto pretty immediately--especiallly since this seems to be escalating quickly with each episode appearang to be more pronounced.

Good luck.

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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 03:27 PM
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OP's dog appears to be only 5 months old. I hope she doesn't have something wrong with her heart at such a young age.

OP, how is she doing today? Have you seen a vet yet?




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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Vet said it can be a number of things but need further testing to rule out and narrow it down. She was tired all night and later around this morning but about noon to 5 she was energetic. Gf took her for a walk about an hour ago and said she collapsed again.


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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 10:36 PM
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It sounds like you haven't taken her to the vet yet. What testing did they do? Any vet reading what you posted would want her hospitalized. This is very serious.
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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HavenMae View Post
Vet said it can be a number of things but need further testing to rule out and narrow it down. She was tired all night and later around this morning but about noon to 5 she was energetic. Gf took her for a walk about an hour ago and said she collapsed again.


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Let me make myself clear: your puppy's life is in danger here. If you took her to the vet and this is all they did, you need to take her to a different vet. By this point I would be at the emergency department of the closest veterinary school or multi specialty practice. Do not mess around with this. This is a true emergency.
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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 10:58 AM
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She needs a specialist work up with a cardiologist, not just a regular vet.

Also, as I mentioned in a previous thread, she should NOT be going on runs at this age! And I'd be especially cautious about exercise while you don't know what's going on with her.

Please get her in to a specialist. I'd personally get to a university hospital where there are many varieties of specialists so they can work together to figure out what's going on. This isn't something to take lightly!


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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
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Please get her in to a specialist. I'd personally get to a university hospital where there are many varieties of specialists so they can work together to figure out what's going on. This isn't something to take lightly!
If I remember correctly, you are in Texas? If so, Texas A&M in College Station has one of the best vet schools in the country, and people all over the state take their animals there for specialized care.


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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 11:55 AM
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Also, looking at your other thread, you said she ate the weatherstripping off a door a couple of days ago, as well as chewed on a table. There are a few different possibilities that come to mind with those scenarios. One, she could have an obstruction. Two, she could have inhaled a piece of something, like a sliver of wood, and have it stuck somewhere in her respiratory tract. Three, the weatherstripping and/or varnish on the table could have been toxic.


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post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 04:53 PM
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That's a good point. Maybe some asbestos or lead paint or other nasty thing got eaten.
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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 04:58 PM
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Hey HavenMae!! I know all of us are worried sick your girl is showing signs of cardiac issues, and she may well be, but I wanted to mention there is another problem found in dogs, and apparently in Dobes with some frequency, and that something is called narcolepsy. There is another form of this same probelm called cataplexy. Both are very similar, but in one the dog remains in control of it's eye movement, eyes open and moving, in the other the eyes close though it looks like they move under the lids.

Anyway, please get your girl in and have her heart checked first and foremost, she is pretty young for heart issues to start, but there are reports of very young dogs being lost to DCM(6 months was the youngest I heard of) if the docs rule out cardiac problems, you may wish to speak to them about narcolepsy?
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post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HavenMae View Post
Vet said it can be a number of things but need further testing to rule out and narrow it down. She was tired all night and later around this morning but about noon to 5 she was energetic. Gf took her for a walk about an hour ago and said she collapsed again.


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How is Haven Mae doing today? any update?
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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-22-2017, 02:00 AM
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Hearts are breaking for this puppy...including mine.

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post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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I took her to the vet Friday shortly after posting this. If this forum is for help and advice it's probably best to not call people liars just because they don't post what your expecting them too. I came to this forum for helpful advice.. Wheb I said I took her to the vet and you reply that it sounds like I didn't take her to the vet- it really rubs me the wrong way. The whole reason she was with me Friday is because I was already scheduled to take her to the vet friday afternoon. I agree it's very serious but the man with the degree didn't seem to think it was as serious as I'm reading here. So we are trying to find a specialist close by. I called the er we usually use an Sunday and no one answered for hours- found out they don't open till 5 pm. I'll keep the forum posted to any changes. We are north of Houston so any names of specialist in the Cypress area would be helpful.


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post #21 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allisonJ View Post
How is Haven Mae doing today? any update?


She seems to be herself other than the collapsing. She did it once more last night. She isn't aware that she is doing it it seems. If she doesn't get out of the house and move around she will tear the place to shreds. So we walk her. She only went once yesterday and it's reflecting on our living room this morning.


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post #22 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 09:49 AM
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Please get some help with your pups health and then perhaps from an experienced dog owner. I have a 4 month old Dobe pup and I am sure my living room would look similar if I let him run amok. Crate training is a good thing.

Do not get frustrated with some of the other responses here either. This is still a very good resource for you. It sounds like you need a bit of help and it also sounds like this could be a serious health concern.

I hope it isn't a serious matter and your pup is fine.
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post #23 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HavenMae View Post
I took her to the vet Friday shortly after posting this. If this forum is for help and advice it's probably best to not call people liars just because they don't post what your expecting them too. I came to this forum for helpful advice.. Wheb I said I took her to the vet and you reply that it sounds like I didn't take her to the vet- it really rubs me the wrong way. The whole reason she was with me Friday is because I was already scheduled to take her to the vet friday afternoon. I agree it's very serious but the man with the degree didn't seem to think it was as serious as I'm reading here. So we are trying to find a specialist close by. I called the er we usually use an Sunday and no one answered for hours- found out they don't open till 5 pm. I'll keep the forum posted to any changes. We are north of Houston so any names of specialist in the Cypress area would be helpful.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by HavenMae View Post
She seems to be herself other than the collapsing. She did it once more last night. She isn't aware that she is doing it it seems. If she doesn't get out of the house and move around she will tear the place to shreds. So we walk her. She only went once yesterday and it's reflecting on our living room this morning.


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A quick Google search shows this multi-specialty veterinary practice that includes a cardiologist: Home - Gulf Coast Veterinary SpecialistsGulf Coast Veterinary Specialists

If she is destroying things, can you crate her instead? Or put her in a puppy proof room or x-pen? Give her some stuffed Kongs or other chews to occupy her?


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post #24 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 10:16 AM
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Cypress Falls Animal Hospital, Our Veterinary Staff here's one in Cypress that hasa a vet who works in cardiology on staff, not sure how close it is to you!

Our cardiologist/ eye doc practice is about an hours drive from me, but worth it to get in with no fuss or waiting.

Best of luck, and I'm sure hoping you get an answer that is benign in nature! Meanwhile give HavenMae a scritch and a kiss on the nose from me!
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post #25 of 52 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 11:46 AM
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Good luck with your specialist visit. It would be really helpful for the veterinarian if you had video of at least one of the collapses. Also, this article gives some helpful observations you can record. Hopefully, that will make your first visit more productive.

Episodic Weakness and Collapse


by expert Jon Wray on April 1, 2013 category Weakness and Collapse

What is Episodic weakness and collapse?

Essentially, ‘episodic weakness and collapse’ refers to involuntary falling over! Dogs are more commonly presented to veterinary surgeons with this problem than cats. Syncope (pronounced sin-coh-pea) is the technical term for fainting when the patient temporarily loses consciousness. Collapse, such as fainting, may be completely benign and require no treatment. However, in some circumstances it is due to a life-threatening situation that requires a specific treatment.

We need to be sure we are not just dealing with an isolated incident of exhaustion! However, don't take a chance. You must call your vet if you are concerned.
We need to be sure we aren’t just dealing with an isolated incident of exhaustion! However, don’t take a chance. You must call your vet.

Remember these conditions are both Involuntary (the patient has no control over them) and intermittent or ‘episodic’ and the patient may be completely normal between bouts. There are no seizures or fits as we see in Epilepsy. Also, before starting our investigations, we need to be as sure as possible that involuntary collapse is truly occurring. If a dog is choosing to lie down, for instance because of tiredness or heat exhaustion, or because of feeling faint after pulling hard on the lead this is not collapse.

What causes episodes of weakness, collapse or fainting?

The causes are many and varied and can involve:

The airways
The heart and blood vessels
The nervous system – brain, spinal cord, peripheral nerves
The muscles, bones and joints
A malfunction of one or more chemical processes occurring in one of a number of body organs (these are usually referred to as ‘Metabolic’ causes).
To further complicate matters there are plenty of potential causes of collapse within each of these broad categories. So, what might seem to be a relatively ‘simple’ clinical presentation can turn into the proverbial search for a needle in a haystack when it comes to finding out the cause of the problem.

Investigations can therefore be costly, frustrating and extremely time consuming for all concerned. For example, it is quite common for blood samples to be sent to more than one specialist laboratory and some of these may be outside the UK. Finally getting all the results together can take several days or even weeks. It can be a trial of patience waiting for such tests but it is better to wait for accurate results than to choose a more rapid but less helpful alternative.

How can pet owners and carers help in getting to a diagnosis?

You can help a great deal by giving an accurate account of events leading up to the collapsse
You can help a great deal by giving an accurate account of events leading up to the collapse
Getting to a diagnosis is clearly very important so we know how to treat effectively. You can help your vet a lot in this regard! It is often very helpful if video footage of the events occurring can be provided as sometimes this may show important information which to the untrained eye may not be obvious. Your vet may well not see the event you are concerned about as by their very nature these are intermittent events.

It is very helpful to know the following:

What a pet is doing just before he or she collapses?
What he or she does during the collapse?
What he or she does just after the collapse?

Trish and the Trio!
Boon, Aubie, and Ozzie
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