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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Fawn Doberman – Dandruff and Fur Loss

Hello Everyone,

My Wife and I just added a Fawn Doberman named Hershel to our family. He's our first dog but easily the best dog I have ever been around, very happy we went with him and he is learning and becoming a great dog very quickly. Our issue however, since day one, has been his coat. When we brought him home he had developed a staff infection that caused (acne?) on the back of his head and ears. Our vet gave us some medication and it cleared up pretty quick. Shortly after that he developed a small thinning patch of fur on his right hip. They gave him another dose of the medication and although the patch hasn't gotten any worse he seems to be losing fur on his back more and more. He also has terrible dandruff. Any Ideas?

Though the forum wont allow me to attach a picture of my pup, I found this one on Google that looks a lot like what he looks like.

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 07:19 AM
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Kelly had dandruff (off & on) until we changed her food...diet often plays a big part, in coat health/condition.

Morning Meal - Home Cooked:
- 2 lbs of ground hamburger
- 1 lbs of ground turkey or chicken
- cup of white rice
- 3 eggs
- large pack of mixed vegetables
- pack of fruit (raspberry or blueberry), 1 cup
- pack of white fish (sometimes)
Let cook in a slow cooker, for 8 hours on low...3/4 cup per serving in Z-Lock bag...makes meals for 2 weeks.

Evening Meal:
- 1 heaping cup of ACANA kibble...Regional Red Meats.

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 08:49 AM
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Have you had his thyroid tested?

Are you aware of what CDA is?
What do you feed?


I've known no deeper love, than that from my beloved Doberman

Think the crap in your kibble is good? Check it out

http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_pe...edients_2.html
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 08:53 AM
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Hi & welcome from England.

Congrats on your new addition, how old is your pup?

As you are new to the breed I don't know if you are aware of Colour dilution alopecia that affects the dilutes (fawns & blues). It may be something you want to do some research on.

Its not something I know a great deal about, hopefully someone far more knowledgeable than me about it will see your thread & chime in.

To post pics try using photobucket or something similar.




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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 09:12 AM
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How old is your dog?

Puppies get staph infections somewhat commonly. They can also get demodectic mange; their little immune systems aren't quite fully developed yet. Usually that shows up as patches of bare skin and the vet should do a skin scraping to see if there are more skin mites than normal (demodex mites are normally found on dogs, but with a poor immune system, they can overgrow and cause problems.)

After repeated courses of antibiotics, dogs can also develop resistant staph infections--and then only a few antibiotics will get rid of it. In these cases, a vet should do a skin culture to see what antibiotics work with the strain of staph the dog has and treat it with that antibiotic for a longer period of time.

Dobes can also have skin problems if they are hypothyroid (low thyroid levels). Has your dog ever had his thyroid checked? Other symptoms of thyroid problems can include lethargy and weight gain--but it seems to me that skin and coat troubles show up first (that last is just me talking though, I’m not a vet) You can have thyroid problems in a dog with almost no symptoms, and even with a young dog, but more commonly dobes develop thyroid problems as they age. If your dog is an older dog and his thyroid results come back showing even just a low normal level, thyroid medication can often help.

Poor coat and repeated staph infections can also be due to allergies. Staph infections can be a complication of allergies--the dog’s skin and coat is affected by his reaction to a certain food, or much more commonly, an allergy to something in his environment--grasses, dust mites, various pollens--and infections can develop. In people, this kind of allergy often causes nasal congestion--but allergies in dogs tends to show up as skin problems.

Fawn and blue dobermans often have a genetic problem (Color dilution alopecia--CDA) which leads to a thinning coat and problems with skin infections. There are various extra food supplements and coat treatments you can use on your dog to help keep his coat in as good a shape as it can be, but if his hair thinning is due to alopecia, it will usually get progressively worse as the dog gets older--there’s not a whole lot you can do to treat the condition to give the dog a normal coat.

Here’s an article from the Doberman Breeders Club of America:

https://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/article...ution-alopecia

and an older website which talks about possible supplements which might improve your dog’s coat:
Storm's Regimen

Dobes can have all kinds of skin problems, some of them specific to dobes and a few other breeds. Some vets are more familiar with dobes than others and have a better handle on the kinds of things they should look for in our particular breed. If your dog continues to have coat and skin problems despite the treatments your vet recommends, you can dabble with the different supplements and diet changes folks have seen help their dogs, but you may need a consult with a vet specialist in dermatology to help pinpoint the cause of the problems and recommend treatments or supplements that might help.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input!

In response, my pup is 6 months old. We feed him nutrisource chicken & rice large breed puppy formula. We have not had his thyroid checked but based on some of the feedback here I think we will. I have heard of the Dilute's and the trouble with alopecia however I was told by our vet that he is a little young to be showing signs of that? Anyone have experience?

He definitely never seems lethargic, he's either running or sleeping lol. He seems to be growing super fast but I assumed it was normal, his dad was 115 llbs and at 6 months our boy weighed in at 71 llbs?

I like the look of that meal plan Beaumont67, we may give that a shot. What do you all think of the food were currently giving him? Based on some online research we felt pretty good about it before? What are you all using?
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 09:15 AM
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First off, welcome to the forums! You are in the best spot to learn about Dobermans and make friends in the process

I personally have never heard of nutrisource dog food, but I have heard that the most common allergy amongst dogs is chicken. Not sure why, or I could be mistaken. 70+ pounds is really big for a six month old pup, you have to be careful that the food you are feeding doesn't have elevated calcium levels as it promotes too quick of a growth for large breed puppies. Slow and steady is best so as to best ensure in the future your pup does not develop skeletal issues, large breed puppy varieties (should) have these levels on point for this reason. Also many people will feed adult maintainence kibbles to their large breed pups, mine just turned a year and he eats Taste of the Wild adult and has flourished. I am unaware of the situation surrounding how you acquired your pup, but the sire is oversized at 115 lbs and in actuality many full grown "appropriate" Dobes are in the 70-80 lbs range, which is true to the breed standard. That being said, mine is 13 months old (he is only half Dobe other half is GSD) and he is 90 lbs, these kinds of dogs continue to mature til they are about three.

I think I've rambled a little bit, but I did want to say I am truly happy you are thoroughly enjoying each other, and that you have many years of enrichment together!
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar_Nett View Post
Thanks for all the input!

In response, my pup is 6 months old. We feed him nutrisource chicken & rice large breed puppy formula. We have not had his thyroid checked but based on some of the feedback here I think we will. I have heard of the Dilute's and the trouble with alopecia however I was told by our vet that he is a little young to be showing signs of that? Anyone have experience?

He definitely never seems lethargic, he's either running or sleeping lol. He seems to be growing super fast but I assumed it was normal, his dad was 115 llbs and at 6 months our boy weighed in at 71 llbs?

I like the look of that meal plan Beaumont67, we may give that a shot. What do you all think of the food were currently giving him? Based on some online research we felt pretty good about it before? What are you all using?
Hi Bar_Net

Your vet is correct--while I've seen dilute dogs (all blue dilutes for the record)who are entirely bald as young as 6 and 7 months is it rare and usually the dog has additional coat or skin problems unrelated to CDA.

I do have experience with dilution in the Doberman. The article that Melbrod posted a link to is one I wrote years ago for a doberman list and I own a very nice fawn male (Ch Foxfire's Glad Toed Monster BN CD RE OA AXJ NF CGCA
ROM LC-10). Toad is now over 11 and still has most of his coat--there is a little thinning right behind his shoulders but the rest is still there.

Toad's coat started to thin when he was around 4 but I check thyroid (a full panel) at 2--mostly because I haven't had a Dobe since the 60's who actually wasn't hypothyroid eventually. When the thinning started I rechecked the thyroid levels and his levels were low (and for a Dobe that probably means they need supplimentation--thyroxine.) Again--6 months would be very young to see low thyroid levels but it happens occasionally.

But the picture you posted looked more like a dog with a bad case of staph--sometimes it's better to deal with a vet specialist (allergist/dermatologist) when they have something that isn't clearing up with whatever treatment your vet is recommending. And it isnt just fawn or blue that end up with hair loss because of folliculitis or staph--Dobe puppies are kind of notorious for repeated bouts of staph and most vets will tell you that it's because their immune systems a slow to mature--and since most puppies outgrow puppy staph I believe this is true.

My fawn dog was weaned on ProPlan Salmon and Rice (now labeled as ProPlan Focus sensative skin and stomach) and has eaten either that or ProPlan Chicken and Rice ever since. I've never had any dog who was allergic to chicken but I know people who have and there is no single food that is the right or best for one idividual dog. There are people who will tell you that all Purina products are poison (or Iams, or Royal Canin) or that dogs shouldn't be fed kibbles that contain corn but I have fed many of the kibbles that others don't recommend and have had dogs who thrived on them.

I think that a good basic diet (whatever it may be) will do as much as is likely to be done to maintain a dilute coat. I know fawns who were raw fed, home cooked or a wide variety of kibble who retained good coats. What counts for even more is genetics--I knew that my fawn was likely to have a decent coat because I knew other fawns from my breeders lines who had done so. So my fawn got the same diet that my black dogs (and my only red dog) had received and it worked for him.

The only suppliments he gets (and has gotten over time) have been fish oil from 6 months on and vitamin E which I give to any dog getting fish oil. All the dogs get either a spoonful of yogurt or cottage cheese and an egg daily--all of which are good for coats. If I find a great deal on some sort of meat I'll make a stew or if ground turn it into something the consistency of Sloppy Joe's and freeze it is daily sized batches which they then get with their dinners.

I don't know how often or what you are using to bathe your puppy but one of the major causes of dandruff is bathing in water that is too warm. Dog skin doesn't deal well with warm water and many years ago a vet tech came back from a seminar on bathing dogs put on by a panel of vet dermatologists. She gave me a set of instructions that were passed out at that seminar and I haven't had a dog with dandruff since. The water should be no wamer than tepid--that would feel cool to you--and I actually bathe my dogs in cold water with very mild shampoos. And I don't bathe them frequently. A short coated, single coated dog like a Dobe can been kept very clean simply by wiping them down with a terry cloth towel, wet down and wrung out. When bathing dilute the shampoo, wet down the dog and apply with a wet washcloth or sponge in the direction the hair lays. Use your finger tips to work the lather into the coat--don't scrub the coat with your finger nails and don't use things like rubber curry combs to apply and lather a short sngle coat--you can aggravate any existing skin problem by rubbing the hair back and forth--and warm water will open follicles and you can then drive the shampoo into the follicles which can cause an irritation which may end up with the dog with a good case of folliculitis.

Rinse the dog at least as long as it took you to bathe him--and then rinse once more--all with very cool to cold water. You can mix a cup of plain white vinegar with a gallon or two of cold water and use it as the final riinse to make sure you have all of the shampoo out of the coat. Shampoo left after bathing will aslo cause dandruff. Let the dog shake himself and wipe him down with a towel--and again in the direction the coat lays--don't rub it back and forth. Even in the dead of winter all my Dobes are dry in less than 15 minutes.

70+ pounds isn't all that unusual for a Dobe male puppy at six months or so--my fawn dog matured at 28-1/2" and in conformaion he showed at 90 pounds--when he finished his championship and we started training for Agility I took five pounds off (young conformation dogs are frequently shown a little fat to make them look more mature). He's weighed about 85 pounds ever since.

Large breed puppies grow very fast--gets them in trouble often when we, their owners, start thinking they are adults and shouldn't be idiots because they are 80 pounds and thier full height at a year--just smething to bear in mind. Toad was 28" and around 80 pounds when he started showing in the 6-9 puppy class. As I recall he was just over 7 months at his first show.

As far as his sire's size--a weight only goes so far--at 115 pounds I can tell you that I've only seen one Dobe who wasn't just plain fat at 115 pounds. That dog was actually 120 pounds and was 31" at the shoulder--that is the size a male Great Dane--Dobes should never be that big. There is no advantage for a male to be that large and many disadvantages. These dogs should be MEDIUM sixed--and at that they are pushing the limit a what we would normally call medium.

If you do a search using dobebug + fawn + dilute +Toad--you should find a bunch of posts I've put up about dilution in Dobes and maintenance of fawn Dobes.

Good luck with your boy--I hope you have as much fun with him as I've had with my fawn Dobe.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
I do have experience with dilution in the Doberman. The article that Melbrod posted a link to is one I wrote years ago for a doberman list and I own a very nice fawn male (Ch Foxfire's Glad Toed Monster BN CD RE OA AXJ NF CGCA
ROM LC-10). Toad is now over 11 and still has most of his coat--there is a little thinning right behind his shoulders but the rest is still there.
I think autocorrect changed Toad's name? That should read "Ch Foxfire's Gold Toed Monster BN CD RE OA AXJ NF CGCA ROM LC-10"
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 08:46 PM
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Definitely reread what dobebug wrote!

I wanted to say most of what she said - the dandruff and coat condition look to me like he may still be dealing with a staph infection that hasn't fully cleared up, as well as just a poor coat from possibly not doing well on his food and/or overbathing/not being bathed properly. A healthy coat, even in a dilute dog, really comes from the inside out. A food that he does well on, plus possibly a fish oil supplement (talk to your vet), is what I would do, as well as making sure the staph infection is really gone. My Richter had staph as a puppy and it took a very long course of antibiotics to clear it up - like 6-8 weeks. I also rarely bathe my dogs. When I do, I use cool water.

Your dog is pretty young for thyroid problems so I wouldn't likely check that until I checked all the other stuff out first.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar_Nett View Post
Thanks for all the input!

In response, my pup is 6 months old. We feed him nutrisource chicken & rice large breed puppy formula. We have not had his thyroid checked but based on some of the feedback here I think we will. I have heard of the Dilute's and the trouble with alopecia however I was told by our vet that he is a little young to be showing signs of that? Anyone have experience?

He definitely never seems lethargic, he's either running or sleeping lol. He seems to be growing super fast but I assumed it was normal, his dad was 115 lbs and at 6 months our boy weighed in at 71 llbs?

I like the look of that meal plan Beaumont67, we may give that a shot. What do you all think of the food were currently giving him? Based on some online research we felt pretty good about it before? What are you all using?
I always stick to 4-5 star kibble & 5 star organic treats / no Milk Bone type filler CRAP.
Your kibble looks decent BTW...but dog with dandruff, should be switched off chicken based ones IMO.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 10:11 PM
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He’s probably a little young to be worried about thyroid too--unless you’re seeing other symptoms like lethargy and weight gain.

I’d go with staph infection (he may need a longer time on antibiotics or a culture to see if the staph is a “super bug” and needs a specific antibiotic for treatment)

I’d keep in mind his diet--like dobe bug said, my dogs did well on ProPlan Salmon and Rice (now labeled as ProPlan Focus sensative skin and stomach). Kip’s coat (red) looked a lot like that from time to time. He did end up being diagnosed with allergies, but to things in his environment (we joke he’s allergic to people--at least he’s allergic to dust mites), not food. He also would get staph infections from time to time.

Look at his coat here--part way through his antibiotics

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
I think autocorrect changed Toad's name? That should read "Ch Foxfire's Gold Toed Monster BN CD RE OA AXJ NF CGCA ROM LC-10"
LOL! Geeze--I don't even know my own dogs name (and after 11 years at that.) And I can't even blame autocorrect! It was just plain a typo...

Thanks for catching it and correcting it, Rosemary--you got it right.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 10:59 AM
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Mine developed the same symptoms and my vet couldn't figure it out. Through a ton of my own research I found he has allopecia. He had chronic staph infections for years as part of his allopecia included ingrown hairs that I hadn't to pluck out individually before they got infected and sometimes I missed some.

Background: my dogs father was a complete albino. That doesn't help things.

Look for hairs that grow out and then right back into the skin, pluck them and use hydrogen peroxide. Also, give him a fish oil supplement with his food, it made ALL the difference with my dobies coat and his allopecia.
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