Demodex? Staph? Something else? (Pics) - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

IgotdaBlues · 01-13-2009, 01:39 AM

My blue female's coat has been going downhill lately. About he last 4 weeks. She got a bunch of bumps on her head overnight , and from there it got worse fast. Now it seems to be slowing down & maybe even hair is growing back. I had just introduced K9 Showstopper, so I discontinued that, thinking it might be the cause.

So, I gave up treats for the dogs & made sure they were only eating things they are used to.
I also made sure I was using a laundry soap without perfume or dyes.

I have a sinking feeling she has Demodex or Staph. The older dog isn't having any troubles. His coat looks great.
We go to the vet Friday.
Her last skin scrape was negative, a few weeks ago.
I just purchased 5% benzoyl peroxide gel & Goodwinol just in case. She gets Revolution, so it's not flea allergy. I've been using paraguard shampoo & hydrocortizone mixed into tea tree oil & oatmeal lotion alternated with acne lotion, which ironically seems to help the most (salactic acid).
Any opinions as to what this might be are greatly appreciated.

her shoulders and back

her sides

her head, legs
She is not itchy for the most part. Because she's only 7 months the doc ruled out thyroid & CDA until later. Should I get a second opinion on those?

**Megs** · 01-13-2009, 05:04 AM

Although she is a blue and they are prone to more skin/coat issues, she just looks too young in the photos to be developing CDA already....

I have a 9 month old black and tan male and your pup may have something similar to what I noticed on him, around 14 weeks of age or so... He started to break out in crusty-looking pustule-looking bumps along his back, and also had a few here and there around his head and back of neck... maybe the odd one on his leg(s). Actually, when I picked him up at 10 weeks, he even had a small one or two on top of his head (but at that time I just figured they were "puppyhood marks" because it was only one or two tiny marks). I first noticed that a wave of bumps had spread along his back when we were out in the sun, and even then it was only really visible from a certain angle. They didn't appear to be bothering him all that much, but they didn't look very good, so I took him to the vet, who told me not to worry. He was not the least bit concerned and we didn't do anything. They weren't red, open or sore-looking and he wasn't scratching at them.

I talked to his breeder about it and apparently his dam went through the same thing at about the same age. Within a month or so, the bumps had cleared up almost entirely, and there did not appear to be new ones popping-up. I still don't know exactly what it was, but perhaps a skin mite or mild Staph infection that took a bit of a strong-hold while his still-developing immune system was busy fighting off something else (he had a few rounds of puppy-type stomach bugs going on over this period, so who knows...) Whatever the case, it cleared up and I'm happy that I didn't medicate him (at Vet's discretion), or subject him to frequent baths with specials shampoos or whatever that may have just made things worse. I did start giving him salmon oil regularly though.

It seems like your pup is probably going through the same type of thing. I know someone else whose puppy went through it at a later age... around 12 months or so, but she has since cleared-up also. Hopefully she's not having an allergic reaction to her food (any recent changes?) or something new in her environment... a new pet bed for example... I wondered if that too caused or enhanced the reaction in Thakoon... because of the cedar chips as part of the stuffing. (Cedar is an aromatic-oily wood).

Whatever it is, I hope she isn't too irritated by this and she clears up soon!

StoneyBlue · 01-13-2009, 06:01 AM

My blues coat looks exactly the same way - maybe even worse - on his back - his thyroid has been tested and that is fine. He sometimes gets the pimples on his head or a few on his back. Sometimes he gets them so bad we have to go to the dr. I have 2 ointments and sometimes the vet gives him clavamox (antiboitc) but the hair on his back never gets any better. I guess mine has that CDA but it has not been confirmed. I got him a dobercoat and thats about all i can do.

Good Luck! Keep me posted.

marlee12002 · 01-13-2009, 06:49 AM

How old is your girl? I am not a vet but it looks like it could maybe be the beginning of demodex with a staph infection too or just demodex pimples but it could be one of many other things also. How long have you been using the Revolution as I think it is supposed to also aid in the treatment of mange. I would have the vet do another skin scraping just to be sure it's not demodex. Those mites can be good at hiding. Diet can help the skin and coat also... what do you feed? Skin problems can be hard to diagnose and treat. Good luck!

DobeMomToo · 01-13-2009, 07:52 AM

I've had Demodex on two of my three Reds and never had "pimples" or "bumps" appear. Only significant hair loss. I'm thinking more "Staph" or perhaps an ailment that is specific to Blues only. Having never had a Blue, I can't really say what that might be, but I hear they are lucky (??) enough to see coat issues other DoberKids don't see.

I'm not much help, but I will go on record as saying this does not look like Demodex to me.

audra · 01-13-2009, 08:14 AM

I had demodex once on a foster dog. I did not have any pimple looking bumps either just great hair loss also.Good luck.

DobeMomToo · 01-13-2009, 10:32 AM

While I rarely surf to the DPCA site, I did find this link to them that addresses skin problems and diseases. While these can be found potentially in any dog, being on the DPCA makes me tend to believe these are the ones found most often in our beloved Dobermans.

Based on your description and the information found on the site referenced, I'm leaning towards this being Allergic and Irritant Contact Dermatitis or a Bacterial Infection of some type.

IgotdaBlues · 01-13-2009, 10:48 AM

Thanks everyone!! Whew, am I ever so glad it doesn't look like Demodex. Staph or allergies we can deal with! It's just ugly looking, doesn't seem to bother her much. The medicated bath seems to help. I've used Revolution for 2 months. I started her on HeartGard, but that caused her to vomit & be miserable the next day with awful jelly plops. Weirdly enough, that HeartGard and the Showstopper were the only 2 changes. She eats Chicken Soup kibble & canned, plus I add in raw chicken 2-3 times a week. She also eats cheese, bananas, apples, pumpkin & dried sweet potatoes for treats.
Nothing otherwise changed except having a Christmas tree in the house, which is now gone.
If it's a blue thing, that's fine with me. I just don't want any health issues going untreated, and her having discomfort. She has a sweater for cooler days or nights. If it's just a looks thing, well I can handle it. To me she is the most amazingly gorgeous creature. I'll just nickname her "bumpy". hahaha
Since she's 7 months I noted in another thread where bumps were occurring on people's pups that it might be hormones from "puberty". It'd be fabulous if she simply outgrew this.

Since I've ordered the Goodwinol and the Benzolyl peroxide I may as well give it a chance in a small area, see what happens. Unless the vet says no. The Goodwinol sounds like it has nasty side effects, so I'll try that as a last resort on a really small spot.

A lot of the sites say staph dogs smell gross. She doesn't and she isn't oozing. The bumps come up but never get a head. Every once in awhile she'll getn one that looks like a boil filled with puss and if you press it they either do nothing or pop and them heal up pretty quickly.
I really hate to give her any antibiotics or anything unless it's the only way to go.

von Cosack Dobermann · 01-13-2009, 12:42 PM

I had a blue bitch for 14 years(rescue) had good luck with her coat, please read this info from this site, cause and treatment (www.seattle-attorney.com/storm/sup.html).Also everyone is suppliment crazy, administer one at a time for thirty days before using a second because you will not know the effect of the first by stacking. I can suggest a good wash for you Malaseb and rinsing with as warm a temperature as possible. Apple cidar vinegar(Braggs) in her water and food along with an once mixed in a 18 oz. spray bottle with very warm water, use your hands to massage wet coat then dry. Her imune system is weak anti-biotics if administered must be complimented with pro-botics. It is very difficult but try to keep it simply. best of luck & read up

tosca · 01-13-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by von Cosack Dobermann

I had a blue bitch for 14 years(rescue) had good luck with her coat, please read this info from this site, cause and treatment (www.seattle-attorney.com/storm/sup.html).Also everyone is suppliment crazy, administer one at a time for thirty days before using a second because you will not know the effect of the first by stacking. I can suggest a good wash for you Malaseb and rinsing with as warm a temperature as possible. Apple cidar vinegar(Braggs) in her water and food along with an once mixed in a 18 oz. spray bottle with very warm water, use your hands to massage wet coat then dry. Her imune system is weak anti-biotics if administered must be complimented with pro-botics. It is very difficult but try to keep it simply. best of luck & read up

Being the owner of a fawn, I would strongly discourage spraying vinegar (an acid) on a dog's coat - nor would I spray listerine on a dog's coat. Both would be drying agents.

From my own experience, I can offer that there can be sensitivity to tea tree oil. I do bathe my fawn at least twice a month (using Pantene!), add fish oil to her food - and that's it! She'll be 6 at the end of this month and still has her hair.

reddobes · 01-13-2009, 07:42 PM

I agree w/ tosca -- I've seen some severe skin inflammation from tea tree oil.

I will also say it's very common for young shorthaired dogs to have intermittent flare ups of staph (regardless of breed, color, sex, etc). Shampoos can be very helpful in controlling it if they are used at the first sign of any pustules. When many pustules are present, oral antibiotics are indicated (typically for 2-4 weeks) to get the staph back under control.

SNCBOOM · 01-13-2009, 09:07 PM

Yes, my blue suffered the same infection around that age. It cleared up in a month or maybe less.

IgotdaBlues · 01-14-2009, 12:49 PM

Thanks for the info. I have never used vinegar. I wouldn't want anything stingy sprayed on me with sores, so I figured try other ways.
I should clarify that I only use 1 drop of tea tree oil once every couple of days in lotion. I also never added it before he break out.
I will delete it from the lotion, see what happens.

I purchased some Chlorhexiderm shampoo, see if that helps too.

DobeMomToo · 01-14-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IgotdaBlues

Thanks for the info. I have never used vinegar. I wouldn't want anything stingy sprayed on me with sores, so I figured try other ways.
I should clarify that I only use 1 drop of tea tree oil once every couple of days in lotion. I also never added it before he break out.
I will delete it from the lotion, see what happens.

I purchased some Chlorhexiderm shampoo, see if that helps too.

When are you planning on seeing a Vet again?

eclaire · 01-14-2009, 02:53 PM

I have the exact same problem with Rainah (Black). Shes had those little bump like thingys on her skin for months now. It doesn't really get much worst, but its not really getting any better either. We've done 2 courses of antibiotics, benadryl, removed all chicken to check for an allergy, she was always on revolution. We've run out of ideas. I'm actually taking her to a different vet in 2 weeks for a second opinion. I'm hoping a fresh set of eyes might have something new to offer.

In addition to that, Rainah has also developed 2 bumps on her lower lip. They both grew in size, turned black and then fell off. Now they are growing again. No idea what they are either, and they make me very nervous what with the growing and blackness. Scared to find out what they are, but I need to know.

Neither thing seems to bother her, thankfully.

IgotdaBlues · 01-15-2009, 11:59 AM

Nice to know I'm not alone here...all, this weird skin stuff. Well, off to the vet again tomorrow. Good news is, the hair is coming back & the bumps seem to be going away for the most part, altho I did notice a couple of new ones

.
I am using the acne lotion mixed with oatmeal lotion (without tea tree oil) daily, doubled up the salmon oil and probiotic powder daily, & am still using paraguard shampoo every Sunday.

TexasRed · 01-15-2009, 12:24 PM

We also have a little bout of puppy pyoderma going on & visited with the vet this morning. Skin scrape was clean. Ya'lls pups are a few months older than Axel, but my Vet expects he will grow out of it in the next 2mos. If not, we will proceed with antibiotics. He only has about 11 bumps that we counted but I was getting concerned. Fortunately no itching or fiddling with them.

Some of the areas I thought looked a little "flat" in luster in his coat, were just him starting to blow a bit of his puppy coat as well. We just started him this Monday on the Grizzly Salmon oil in his diet & the vet was pleased to hear that & indicated that sometimes the fatty acids alone will help clear it up, not to mention its benefits all around.

Good luck with your vet visit!

von Cosack Dobermann · 01-15-2009, 01:38 PM

Using organic apple cidar vinegar at 1 part to 18 or 20 oz. of water , reduces it's drying agency dramaticly. Vinegar deluted to this table is a good cleaning and disinfectent, the main point here is the hand massage as long as the dog has been cleared of mange. In my expierence with delutes the fawns have fewer skin problems than blues they ussually just have less coat than the brown dogs. Try to strenthen her imune system, good luck.

OfcKai · 02-03-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoneyBlue

My blues coat looks exactly the same way - maybe even worse - on his back - his thyroid has been tested and that is fine. He sometimes gets the pimples on his head or a few on his back. Sometimes he gets them so bad we have to go to the dr. I have 2 ointments and sometimes the vet gives him clavamox (antiboitc) but the hair on his back never gets any better. I guess mine has that CDA but it has not been confirmed. I got him a dobercoat and thats about all i can do.

Good Luck! Keep me posted.

My red dobe developed this same skin condition when she was about 7 weeks old. She had Coxcillia (not sure how to spell it, but it is a bacterial infection in her intestines) and as a result of her immature immune system being compromised, she developed a staph infection which was the cause of her hair loss and scabs. My vet gave me Clavamox (first vet visit), but discontinued it when we went back because it was not working. We were given Flagyl then second visit and it really helped. It's been 4 weeks and Kai's coat is looking beautiful again.

becool_tonic · 11-21-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IgotdaBlues

My blue female's coat has been going downhill lately. About he last 4 weeks. She got a bunch of bumps on her head overnight , and from there it got worse fast. Now it seems to be slowing down & maybe even hair is growing back. I had just introduced K9 Showstopper, so I discontinued that, thinking it might be the cause.

So, I gave up treats for the dogs & made sure they were only eating things they are used to.
I also made sure I was using a laundry soap without perfume or dyes.

I have a sinking feeling she has Demodex or Staph. The older dog isn't having any troubles. His coat looks great.
We go to the vet Friday.
Her last skin scrape was negative, a few weeks ago.
I just purchased 5% benzoyl peroxide gel & Goodwinol just in case. She gets Revolution, so it's not flea allergy. I've been using paraguard shampoo & hydrocortizone mixed into tea tree oil & oatmeal lotion alternated with acne lotion, which ironically seems to help the most (salactic acid).
Any opinions as to what this might be are greatly appreciated.

her shoulders and back

her sides

her head, legs
She is not itchy for the most part. Because she's only 7 months the doc ruled out thyroid & CDA until later. Should I get a second opinion on those?

Sigh, mine has exactly the same but less than the one in pics as I found out quite early; means today after bathing him.
He's going to be 4 months at the end of this month. I took him to vet once, and the vet asked me to use Nizoral shampoo and Nizoral cream on some bumps. It did work on those pump which later came off then hair growed back. But now I notice there are more hair lost - bald spot (just less hair, not totally bald), and big bald spots at his elbow, and he starts scratching himself. some of his skin is sracthed now.
I'm going to take him back to vet tomorrow and I'll ask him to do skin scrape. Sigh, he's the best one I found - or so I thought. And he's expensive too. I'd be really pissed off he did a lousy job 4 weeks ago I took my Dobie to him and he didn't find it Demodex.

becool_tonic · 11-23-2009, 06:38 AM

Well, my boy does have Demodex now. Vet injected him Ivermertin - hope I get the name right, then prescripe something to apply on his skin after regular bath, once a week. Not sure if this is enough?