Pet Health Insurance - Page 3

**dobermansrule** · 06-27-2008, 01:34 PM

berkdogg: my brother is a vet in NC - runs his own small practice. He scratches out an ok living, but he's been in business for years and by no means lives high on the hog from gouging all his pet-loving customers. Costs for everything have risen for veterinarians like everyone else. They have to raise their prices on services just to keep up. They have to pay employees a competitive rate to retain good help (you DO want a competent vet tech working on your dog, don't you?) So don't be too hard on the vets.

Now, IF government gets involved in the pet health industry, then I'm with you. Cost will go through the roof.

berkdogg · 06-27-2008, 01:47 PM

Dobiesrule, listen to this. I purchased a german shepherd puppy for my mom month ago. Merrick and the constantly rough house. I mean you'd swear it was dog fight night III or something, but it is just play. One night Cody (GSD) yelps out loud and turns up with a limp in his front leg, couldn't put any weight on it. I thought for sure the dog's leg was badly sprung or lightly fractured. I put a splint and waited 2 days to see any improvement took place, it didn't.
So, I call the vet whom I had switched to from an earlier vet due to poor service and made an appointment. Keep in $65 to look at the dog's leg. The lady said she needed an x-ray, I say kinda figured that? She says $300, plus a consultation fee just to have them read. I said how many x-rays are you going to take? She says 2. After seeing the expression on my face she says, we have to sedate him to hold him still. I said he's a good and doesn't sedation, and who knows if it will kill him. She then says that if there is a reaction, they will give him more medicine that will have to pay for. I say fine, make the appointment. I go home and call 6 random vets. I got prices like $350, $400, and even $500 for two xrays. One of the techs picked up the phone, and asked for the cost to another person and when they said $350 she couldn't believe it herself. Long story short, we got dog's leg x-rayed they said nothing was wrong. After two days or so Cody is back to his old self.

Now think for a second, what exactly goes into an X-ray that would cost $150 or $200 per Xray. And then charge the client to have them interpreted for you? Does not seem wrong. Is it that hard to stay afloat in the vet biz?

**dobermansrule** · 06-27-2008, 01:56 PM

"Is it that hard to stay afloat in the vet biz?"
Yes.

and not all vets have the same fee structure. Shop around.

Santa · 06-27-2008, 05:35 PM

You seem to have a hard time with vets over there in the U.S. Here in Spain it seems to be a completely different business, and even in England too. Our insurance companies aren't that bad either. I fully agree with preparing for contingencies and am lucky enough that I can afford my pet. My insurance is literally that, insurance, but as an example, some friends of mine in England have a Dobie who has had some problems with his spine, the result has been long term treatment, operations, Lord knows what. Their vet bill this year was £6,000. Yep, that's about $12,000. While my friends are not poor, how many of us are really prepared for that kind of contingency? I don't know many people who can afford to pay out that kind of money - and however much more will be necessary for ongoing treatment. Their insurance has covered the lot.
Yep, the insurance companies make money off us - they're a business, they have to make money, and the same goes for vets, and there are exclusions in the policies, but the fact remains that in most cases they are providing a valuable service. Unless you are rolling in it, I think most of us owe it to our pets to insure their health, to make sure we can provide for all their needs.

elle · 06-27-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berkdogg

Now think for a second, what exactly goes into an X-ray that would cost $150 or $200 per Xray. And then charge the client to have them interpreted for you? Does not seem wrong. Is it that hard to stay afloat in the vet biz?

Cost of x-ray table: $15,000
Cost of generator: $20,000
Cost of one box of film: $300
Cost of processor: $4,000
Cost of one box of fixer/developer chemicals: $200
Cost of two techs to sedate and radiograph dog: $20
Cost of one bottle of common sedative used for x-ray: $300
Cost of consult to clinic for specialist interpretation: $60

or maybe the vet had digital xray?
Cost of mid-grade digital x-ray: $60,000
Cost of high-grade digital x-ray: $100,000
Cost of computer/software to process xrays: $5,000

AND YEAH, it IS that hard to stay afloat in the vet field. The overhead is enormous. And those of us working in it are hardly prospering! I work 70+ hour weeks and still earned well under the national poverty line last year. EVERYONE expects us to provide free services because we love animals. I spend ALL my time working - I don't have anything left to go out and work more so that I can DONATE my time to YOUR animal. Is everyone who loves what they do supposed to give away their services? Why is this not something we come across in any other field? Would you go to a restaurant and ask for a free meal because you just *know* how much the chef loves to cook?! Would you rather I go without food and without medical care for my OWN dog so that I can donate my services to your dog?

Murreydobe · 06-27-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elle

Is everyone who loves what they do supposed to give away their services? Why is this not something we come across in any other field? Would you go to a restaurant and ask for a free meal because you just *know* how much the chef loves to cook?! ?

Hell..lawyers make you give them lots of money before they've even done anything to earn it!

I agree with what you're saying, Elle. All I can add is every veterinarian I know *does* give a lot of time/services away-to rescues, to shelters, etc. But they're certainly not obligated to do so, and shouldn't be 'dissed for wanting to pay their bills like everyone else.

**doberkim** · 06-27-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berkdogg

Another thing that I find myself having to do is to separate my traditional view of what a veterinarian is (someone who truly cares for your dog, and even give you a free treatment if you couldn't afford it), from what they actually are today (most seemingly being vaccinating, uncaring, money hungry, S.O.Bs). $65 just to walk into the vet is a rip off in every since of the word. $150 to get the dog's skin looked at- please do you want to turn me upside down before or after the visit. These vets know that we love our pets and truly consider them part of the family. The guy who has his dog tied to the backyard tree is not even going to show himself at the vets office. We are being exploited here because we will pay whatever they say. Where else will we take our dog for treatments? If indeed pet insurance becomes the norm vet prices will as others have said shoot through the roof. If they have increased prices this much, what do you think they will do to the insurance company? The $65 visit to walk in the door will go to $90, because the insurance company can pay what the patient can't.

I know there are people here who just want their dog to be protected. I think responsible, caring dog owners have gotten along just fine without getting involved in an insurance company. I mean by their very nature and admission, their goal is to do as little for the patient as possible, while charging the most. And that last sentence was for HUMAN health insurance. What do you think they will do when it comes to dogs. The more prevalent this pet insurance becomes, the less effective and honest it will be, because they will have the ability to piss a whole lot more people off without it affecting the number of subscribers.
This is frakkin nuts. Pretty soon to take your dog to the vet, you will have to show proof of insurance. What the hell. How could anyone think this is a good idea for pets and owners?

Ok, so splain this one to me.

I am supposed to give you stuff for free, or at least really cheap, because I love pets? Does your pediatrician give your kid free care, because he loves kids? Does my mechanic give me free oil changes, because he loves to work on cars? How about my realtor - did she waive her fees when I bought my house, because she loves her job? Do YOU give away YOUR living because you love it -- WOULD YOU DO IT FOR FREE? Or do you expect at some point to get paid every day?

Guess what - newsflash here, and I don't really want to break your hearts, but I am not, in any manner, James Herriot. Don't get me wrong - I love pets. I've loved them since I was little - I've had rats, mice, guinea pigs, lizards, dogs, cats, birds, you name it - I've rescued them from the side of the road, I've never wanted to be anything but a vet. And no one ever told me that each and every day, multiple times a day, people would try to take advantage of this and tell me that because of this love, that I should pretty much just give away my skills for free, just because of this love. That the education I spent thousand on, the training I have spent a decade on, the hours I spent in vet school, the late nights, etc - nope, give it all away.

Do you want to know about what it takes to become a vet now?

let's look at veterinary debt:

http://www.vetecon.com/vetec/data/ar...48630/36-2.jpg

http://www.vetecon.com/vetec/data/ar...48630/38-1.jpg
One third of associate vets do not even make enough to live comfortably and pay off their student loans, per this survey (though what does live comfortably really mean?)

http://www.dvmnews.com/dvm/Veterinar...ategoryId=8809
Two years ago the debt load was rising - it is still increasing.

Debt outpaces salaries - More than half of 2006-2007 grads saddled with $100,000 or more - DVM
(I graduated in 2006)

I cannot afford to give you your vet care for free, just because I love dogs and cats and puppies and kittens. At some point, I need to draw the line and say this is a business for me too - this is my livelihood. And don't get angry when I say shame on YOU for trying to guilt me into free vet care.

**berkshire** · 06-28-2008, 01:21 AM

**Doberdog** · 06-29-2008, 08:16 AM

I think we are very lucky to have you Vets and Vet Techs on here giving us support and advice, for free, when we have problems. Thank You, all of you!!!!!!!!

I know that you guys also get calls from your friends at all hours of the day and night. I have a Vet friend and she always takes my calls and gives advice.

zeus and me · 06-29-2008, 09:02 AM

I myself think the very best pet insurance is having a great vet to work with you! my vet DR Bronson is a wonderful person! when I started going to her she was working out of her kitchen hahahahaha! I kid you not! I went in one morning and saw her doing a spay in the dinning room. I find her truley amazing! she is a darn good vet! she is moving up in the world with a big new building and many helpers.....back when we met she had one helper.....who answred phones and babysat. DR Bronsons new building is so pretty! I am proud to say she is my vet. she works her butt off! she told me once......there are people who wont pay no matter what.......and there are people who will pay no matter what.

she gladly bills me.....it doesnt matter if it is a 1,000 farm call or a in office visit. I can go in and pick up meds when I need them.......or get emergancy care when I need it. she knows I WILL pay her.....so she gladly extends me credit. my only worry is that one day she may retire becuase she works too hard lol!!! she is one in a million! and probably one of the more expensive vets in my area. but in my opinion she is worth every cent. she is on call 24/7 and has a heart of gold.