cara708

**Edited by Moderator**

DLS

cara703, I commented on your other post too. I would keep her on the fish and potatoe food. Remember that you may get flareups off and on as her body gets rid of the toxins through her skin. But these should subside over time. So be patient, it may take awhile for her to completely recover. Only use antibiotics if the secondary symptoms get WAY out of hand. As they and steroids are only masking her symptoms not curing them.
Check out oral hydrogen peroxide treatment too. I have seen amazing recoveries with it.

__________________
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www.nopupppymillscanada.ca
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Dobemom2b

hmmm
Wouldn't this fall under self promotion?

dobermansrule

I looked at the picture you posted on the ebay site - I am sorry your girl is going through that. I can only go with that your vet sees her up close and knows the diagnosis; however, it looks an awfully lot like mange to me - has demodectic or sarcoptic mange been ruled out?

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natdobe

I looked at the picture to, and I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I said that my girl has the same thing, but actually she doesn't look bad at all. She just has flakes, a few bumps, and a tiny amount of thin hair. She is also has hypothyroidism, so the vet said that the thin spot could be because of that, and it could take awhile to fill in. I am so sorry, poor girl. Keep us posted on her progress. A agree with dobiesrule about it looking like mange, but I am by no means an expert. Maybe one of the vets on this board will have ideas?

cara708

It isn't mange, she was tested for that. Her thyroid was also tested and was fine. She had skin testing to test for the staph and she has had allergy testing for her food allergies. It may look like mange but it has been ruled out. Thanks for the replys.

chaos

I am going through a similar problem with Arthur. He was put on antibiotics, 3V caps and I have to bathe him 2X a week with a prescription shampoo. At first I saw improvement, but now his skin is extremely flaky, he has developed more bumps. I am going to change his food, he is on Orijen now, but I am switching him to Great Life and add Show Stopper to his diet as well. Also, I think another trip to his vet is in order.

cara708

Did you get his allergies tested? Sounds almost like my situation. He might be allergic to the staph too.

reisende

my 8 month old moonshine has the same problem. spots that emerge, become scabby two-three days later, and then would peel/fall off, and leaving a little spot of hairlessness. but these spots come and go, and hair will only very slowly grow back, so from an angle, he seems to have spots all over his body!

the spots are mostly on his back, his thighs, some on his arms, one or two on his head.

I feed both raw and orijen, bathe him with medicated shampoo and oatmeal rinse, and sometimes spray diluted listerine on his body (he doesn't like it,lol) but it seems to heal the scabs. the vet prescribed cephalexin but I am unwilling to use it as, as somebody here said, it only masks the problems. I just hope with a good diet, good exercise and happy, stress-free days, he will get better.

DLS

Try putting your dogs on a Zinc supplement. Now I do not say I endorse the product advertised here but the information they supply if very interesting to read.

ZINPRO CANINE PRODUCTS: 1-800-253-8128
CANINE SUPPLEMENT (BREWERS YEAST & GARLIC)DOG BISCUITS

"Palatable "ZINC SUPPLEMENT FOR DOGS"

Zinpro Canine products are an addition to our growing line of dietary pet products.
Unlike other supplements made from zinc compounds that are relatively difficult to assimilate,
Zinpro Canine products contain zinc methionine, a patented, highly bioavailable zinc compound.
Zinpro Canine products are made from Lincoln Biotech's exclusive formula to enhance palatability.
Zinpro Canine Supplement is administered at a dose rate of one tablespoon per 50 LB body weight
per day. Zinpro Dog Biscuits are administered at the rate of 1-2 biscuit per 35 lb dog per day.
Lesser per day for smaller dogs, but overfeeding the Zinpro Canine product is not harmful.
It is not a drug. It causes no side effects. No toxicity.

"Nutritional importance of zinc"

Zinc is present in every body tissue and every tissue fluid. Among trace minerals in the body,
only iron is found in greater concentration. Zinc serves two broad purposes; enzyme function and
protein synthesis. In human medicine, patients deficient in zinc have shown improved wound healing
following oral zinc supplementation. It has also been reported that skin absorption of zinc
increases at wound healing sites. and that tensile strength of healing skin is greater when zinc is
supplemented. When dogs need zinc for healthy coats and skin in the diet is necessary for normal
pigmentation of the coat - a concern of many dog breeders.
Zinc deficiency in dogs is characterized by one of more of the following clinical signs:
-skin lesions -slow and sparse hair growth
-conjunctivitis -emaciation
-poor growth -abnormal sexual development
-keratitis -vomiting
"Dermatosis : A special zinc deficiency problem"
dermatosis caused by zinc deficiencies has been discussed frequently in veterinary literature.
The Dermatosis caused by zinc deficiencies has been discussed frequently in veterinary literature.
The Merck Veterinary Manual (6th Ed.) notes that "dermatosis may be associated with nutritional
deficiencies, especially those of proteins, fats and trace elements (including zinc)".
Simply because zinc is in a dog's diet does not necessarily mean tat the mineral is available to
the animal. Even well fed dogs can be zinc deficient if absorption of zinc is hindered by certain
nutrients or foods. Scientists have noted that high levels of calcium interfere with zinc
assimilation. Zinc absorption is also inhibited by high levels of copper, cobalt, phytates
(salts produced by phytic acid, and acid in cereal grains like wheat and soybeans), phosphorous,
starch, and fibre.

"Process of zinc absorption"
Absorption and clearance of zinc from the plasma occurs quickly after ingestion by way of homeostatic
control. Both extracellular and intracellular factors determine the amount of dietary zinc that reaches
the plasma from the intestinal lumen. Zinc in ionic form does not cross the membranes off mucosal
cells in significant amounts. To cross these lipoid barriers, zinc must first form complexes with
organic molecules known as zinc binding ligands (ZBL).
Amino acids form complexes with zinc and other cations which can cross the mocosal cell membrane
readily. The mucosal cell contains proteins known as metallothioneins, which bind zinc ions.
Intracellular concentrations of these proteins can change rapidly in response to an animal's zinc
status and dietary zinc intake. Increased intracellular concentrations of zinc metallothionein is
in reserve for transport. Zinc metallothioneins provide the mechanism of homeostatic control governing
the amount of zinc that reaches the bloodstream. Absorption of zinc ions from the intestinal lumen into
the mucosal cells is controlled by several factors:
-Solubility of dietary zinc source. Zinc oxide is relatively insoluable in water, and its rates
of dissolution depends on the PH of the contents of the gastrointestinal tract. Zinc sulfate and
zinc chloride are readily soluble in water, and provide ionic zinc; however, they irritate
gastrointestinal membranes.
-Presence of ZBL's, which form complexes with amino acids to be absorbed. The amount of zinc absorbed
depends upon the fraction of zinc ions present as absorbable complexes.
-Presence of chelating agent, which form unabsorbable complexes. Absorption of dietary zinc is
adversely affected by high dietary levels of phytates, calcium, phosphorous and fibre. Also, trace
minerals such as copper and iron in high levels compete for ligands, leaving less ZBL to form complexes
with zinc ions.

"Problems with conventional zinc compounds"
Synthetically chelated zinc products are usually excreted in the urine shortly after ingestion. As
a result, most of the zinc and many other heavy metals are wasted. Zinc chelated with hydrolyzed protein
is bound by more than one amino acid and must be altered by the body before it can be absorbed.
Inorganic compounds such as zinc oxide and zinc sulfate cannot be used by the body as sources of zinc
until complexes have been formed with specific organic compounds in the gastrointestinal tract.
Sometimes these complexing compounds are not present in sufficient concentrations for adequate zinc
absorption. Giving an animal excessive amounts of organic zinc compounds can create an imbalance or
deficiency of other metals like copper or iron.

"Zinc methionine (ZINPRO) - A superior zinc source"
Zinc methionine, the compound contained in Zinpro Canine Products overcomes many of the problems
encountered in administering zinc supplements. A unique, patented compound, zinc methionine contains the
amino acid methionine, zinc and the acid sulfate anion in a 1:1:1 ration. In this well defined organic
compound the zinc ion is coordinated with amino and carboxyl groups of the amino acid methionine. The
acid sulfate anion (HS04) and water molecules occupy the remaining vacant bonds in the coordination
sphere of zinc. Because of its chemical structure, zinc methionine does not need ZBL; it can be absorbed
directly and carried to the target organ as zinc methionine. In addition, zinc methionine is free from
the adverse dietary effects of phytates, calcium, phosphorous, and fibre, and it does not compete with
copper and iron for ZBL. Unlike chelated zinc or inorganic zinc compounds, zinc methionine is a soluble
organic complex that is a readily bioavailable source of zinc for dogs.

"Indications of zinc supplementation"
Recently a study was done on a panel of dogs at Ontario Nutri Lab's closed colony of beagles. The dogs
were chosen based on the condition of their skin and coat. The trial was six weeks in duration. The dogs
each received one Zinpro Dog biscuit daily for the six weeks. Photographs of the dogs, with close-ups of
any "hot-spots", were taken at the beginning, mid-point and end of the trial. Ontario Nutri Lab's
veterinarian Dr. Robert Wright performed physical examinations on all of the dogs, paying close attention
to the skin and coat condition, At the beginning and end of the trial. This study concluded that the
Zinpro Supplement had a positive effect on the skin and coat condition of a panel of beagles.
Veterinarians are most likely to encounter zinc deficiency in the following situations:
-In large breeds and fast growing puppies
-In dogs with zinc absorption difficulties
-When animals are fed a high cereal or high meat diet
-Animals with seborrheic allergies
-Animals with breed susceptibility
-Animals on diets high in copper or iron
-Dogs under stress
It is very difficulty to diagnose zinc levels in plasma or hair to determine zinc deficiencies.
Consequently, response to zinc supplementation is the most dependable diagnostic aid for determining a
subclinical deficiency.

"Summary"
It is important to consider the significant effect diet has upon zinc bioavailability. If an animal
is receiving a high cereal diet, it may be ingesting high levels of phytates that interfere with the
absorption of dietary zinc. If an animal is receiving a high meat diet, it may be acquiring excessive
phosphorous and calcium levels, which can also inhibit the absorption of dietary zinc. Therefore, use
of a readily bioavailable zinc source like Zinpro Canine Supplement may be advisable. Unlike synthetic
zinc compounds, which are often excreted soon after they are consumed, and zinc oxide and zinc sulfate,
which must combine with specific organic compounds before the zinc becomes available, Zinpro is quickly
and easily absorbed by the body. And because Zinpro Canine Supplement has a palatable base,
administration problems can be significantly reduced.

__________________
There are other fine dogs; then there are Dobermann - the dog of dogs!
www.nopupppymillscanada.ca
www.dobermanassistance.org. www.dobermannrescue.org http://www.doberman911.org:80/seniors/