Is Albino the Correct Term?

JAXDOG · 05-30-2008, 09:03 AM

Please read entire post before replying!

I will start off with saying I am not looking to start a war.

Doesn't everything start that way? Anyway, I had a thought this morning in the shower (yes, I do my BEST thinking in there!) and got to wondering about the "albino" Doberman. I realize that due to lots of early inbreeding this dog has a lot of unfavorable health issues and conformation issues, but bear with me?

So the "albino" Doberman is not a true albino, in the sense of no pigmentation. They have blue eyes, there is color to the main coat, with the dogs points being white. Okay, so this was what got me thinking. Color to the coat?

Anyone who knows about horse breeding and coloring knows that what was once considered an "albino" horse was recently found to not be albino coloring, but a cremello or perlino. These horses were found to not be albino, but a double dilute. In other words both parents carried the dilute gene (palomino and buckskin in horses) and passed both dilute genes on to the foal, diluting an already dilute color even more. These cremello horses have a creamish colored body with white manes and tails. When a cremello is bred to another colored horse you are guaranteed a dilute color (palomino, buckskin, or smokey black) as the horse has TWO dilute genes and will have to pass one on. If you breed two cremello's together you always get a cremello. Perlino is the buckskin version of this double dilute.

These double dilute "albino" horses were unable to be registered originally with the American Quarter Horse Association for years because at that time they would not register a horse with too much white, and these horses were thought incorrectly to be completely white. They were banned from the AQHA stud books and taken in by the Paint Horse Association. These horses were often from some of the best AQHA pedigrees. The AQHA has since reversed this decision, and is allowing these horses back into their stud books.

So, here's my thoughts. Do these "albino" Dobermans pop up when two dilute Dobermans are bred together (fawn and blue)? And when an "albino" is bred to another colored Doberman do you always get dilutes?

Just curious. I'm sure I could do a ton of research and find all of this information out, but thought maybe someone else has the answer and could save me the hours it would take to get it all together?

JAXDOG · 05-30-2008, 09:46 AM

Okay, so I did a little looking, and it appears that it is a separate gene that can mask other colors. So, it is not a double dilute. Albino Dobermans bred to colored Dobermans can produce non-dilute Doberman's.

Well, it was a thought, anyways.......

Well, it gave my brain a good workout this morning!

Thanks everyone!

gracieface · 05-30-2008, 09:53 AM

wow, that is your early morning thinking, LOL, it's good to have an inquiring mind

JAXDOG · 05-30-2008, 09:57 AM

haha, yeah, sounds good, right? My thought must only get bigger and better after I'm fully awake.

I'll be perfectly honest, it goes down hill from there!

**reisende** · 05-30-2008, 10:08 AM

jaxdog: you have to finish what yous tarted! so does that mean that the albino doberman is not truly, scientifically albino - i.e. - red eyes, lack of pigmentation? I've always wondered..

[disclaimer: I am in NO way interested in ever buying or wanting an albino doberman. in fact, I adore the blacks and reds and not a big fan of the two dilutes..]

**velmadobe** · 05-30-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reisende

jaxdog: you have to finish what yous tarted! so does that mean that the albino doberman is not truly, scientifically albino - i.e. - red eyes, lack of pigmentation? I've always wondered..

[disclaimer: I am in NO way interested in ever buying or wanting an albino doberman. in fact, I adore the blacks and reds and not a big fan of the two dilutes..]

You will find that many albinos in other species also have eyes other than red. Blue being most common. Blue is the color that water appears but in reality is is clear - right? The blue color of albino Doberman eyes is not so much a color as the refraction of light appearing blue (I hope I said that right). The cream color of the coat is not so much a color as the albino gene masking the true color - which could be anyone of the 4 accepted colors. Doberman albinos are not complete albinos - they are partial albinos. There is some good info here: White Doberman , White Dobermans -- Facts About Albino Dobermans

**greenkouki** · 05-30-2008, 11:39 AM

nothing to add here, other than I do my thinking in the shower too

dobebug · 05-31-2008, 12:48 AM

Albino Dobermans are true albinos--it's one of those situations where it's easier to say they aren't "true" albinos than to explain exactly what kind of albino they are.

As you found in looking, there were test breedings performed specifically designed to rule out the possibility of a double dilution situation. You will still find albino breeders insisting that Doberman ARE in fact double dilutes. They aren't but there is no convincing someone who doesn't really want to be convinced.

The so called "partial " albino exists in many species--so that you get things like muted spotting on some of the big cats who show up as albinos, the Doberman albino with it's somewhat colored body coat, various albino snakes which still have some color and muted markings.

Deedle · 06-04-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobebug

Albino Dobermans are true albinos--it's one of those situations where it's easier to say they aren't "true" albinos than to explain exactly what kind of albino they are.

As you found in looking, there were test breedings performed specifically designed to rule out the possibility of a double dilution situation. You will still find albino breeders insisting that Doberman ARE in fact double dilutes. They aren't but there is no convincing someone who doesn't really want to be convinced.

The so called "partial " albino exists in many species--so that you get things like muted spotting on some of the big cats who show up as albinos, the Doberman albino with it's somewhat colored body coat, various albino snakes which still have some color and muted markings.

Albinoism in snakes, yes they have color/markings, unlike a lot of albinos which normally appear to be white in coloration, and have red/pink eyes. Snakes have other pigments that have been affected by albinoism that cause the coloration/markings.

I've kept various Albino snakes (burmese pythons mainly)

Has anyone heard of Leucism?