on and off lameness... HELLLLP!!!!

Lexxsmom · 05-25-2008, 03:27 PM

Sorry for the length of this post to start with.

So, as many of you may know, Lexx has been having some gait issues. Ever since we got him at 8 weeks, he has moved a little bit strangely in his hind end, kind of hoping with his hind right leg. At first we thought it was a "funny puppy thing" then maybe a growth thing... but eventually I had enough of wondering and took him to the vet.

At first they thought nothing of it, and told me it was probably a growth issue, felt his back, neck, down all his legs, pressing and stretching. no pain issues.

He has never shown any pain at all, doesn't care about jumping over things, onto things, down off things, can walk up and down stairs, sits and downs fine. He can stretch his legs all the way back etc.

I demanded xrays anyways because i HAD TO KNOW. He got FULL hind end Xrays, hips, stifles, hocks and they all look perfectly fine. The vet says that there isn't anything to make her suspect any sort of joint or bone issue. She recommended that we take him to a specialist in physio since maybe it was a ligament or muscle thing.

Well, I took him this week, it turns out that I know the vet from the horse world and she was wonderful.

she made me stack lexx checked all his ligaments by touch, all along his spine, his neck and measured his muscle mass ( which is equal..)

she said that she may have suspected wobblers perhaps, but he is only a year and has shown symptoms since so young, that she doubts it, plus his back/neck seemed ok to her and no other symptoms.

alas, nobody has any idea.

recently he has started limping in his FRONT right leg. I thought maybe pano, but he's been checked and its not that. Its only bad after lots of exercise and worse on hard ground or gravel. Today we took him to a car show and on the grass he was perfectly fine, trotting and bouncing along, but on the gravel he looked lame.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY DOG???? he's literally been checked for EVERYTHING. He doesn't seem in pain to the touch, but i Hate to see such a handsome dog limping along like a poor thing in pain

he also holds up the rear leg when eating ( leaning over to eat/drink) and sometimes is difficult to stack properly since he doesnt like to press down on that leg when forced ( but will use it perfectly fine by himself). He can run FAST, can trot evenly... no swelling... nothing.

any thoughts???

**dobermansrule** · 05-25-2008, 03:34 PM

"Its only bad after lots of exercise and worse on hard ground or gravel. Today we took him to a car show and on the grass he was perfectly fine, trotting and bouncing along, but on the gravel he looked lame."

It actually might be a paw pad thing or related to the feet. We recently had similar episode with Quincy - it turns out I started biking him on pavement too much too soon and it 'stone-bruised' his two large front pads. Took about three weeks to resolve and during the healing time I could only exercise him strictly on grass.

Lexxsmom · 05-25-2008, 03:44 PM

ive wondered this. His pads are quite dry and cracked. though there doesn't seem to be much pain when i press the pads, its still a large possibility. I'd like to find some mushers secret stuff for his pads, i hear its great.

**dobermansrule** · 05-25-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexxsmom

ive wondered this. His pads are quite dry and cracked. though there doesn't seem to be much pain when i press the pads, its still a large possibility. I'd like to find some mushers secret stuff for his pads, i hear its great.

yes, we used the musher's product.. works great and healed them up.

Dobemom2b · 05-25-2008, 04:37 PM

Please update us if you figure this out because this is very close to what lestat does and has since the day I got him at 18wks.

dobebug · 05-25-2008, 05:12 PM

With the sudden onset of lameness in front I'd guess on a year old dog that you might be seeing panosteitis--pano for short. If he limps on that front leg for awhile and then stops and starts limping on another leg that is sort of typical pano behavior. How, exactly did they rule pano out for the front leg? Did they do x-rays?

But the business with the rear doesn't fit the profile since he's always moved a little oddly on his rear from what you say in your post he's always moved a little strangely on his right rear. And you've had a full set of rear end x-rays and there is nothing abnormal showing up in them. But he could still have pano going on in the front leg. They can check that with an x-ray--pano shows up and treatment (you've probably read this from other threads) usually consists of pain meds in very bad cases and limited exercise--usually crating for several weeks.

I doubt that the rear stuff is anything to do with a paw--cracked pads generally don't make a dog continuously move strangley. Have you had the breeder watch him move--one of things that did occur to me is that puppies who are very slightly cow hocked on one leg will have an odd rear movement--they generally won't be lame though but the movement will be just a touch off. However that doesn't account for why he is holding up the hind leg when he eats nor why he doesn't want to put weight on it when he's stacked. Has he always done that too? If he hasn't and if the vet who did the X-rays isn't an orthopedist you might think about biting and bullet and having him seen by a specialist. Partial ACL and CCL tears which will make a dog do both of the things you mentioned in the rear are not always easily diagnosed and generally you can't see them from X-rays.

I agree with the vet who went over him looking for something wrong with ligaments and tendons that it would be unlikely that you are looking at Wobblers. In Great Dane puppies there is a fairly high incidence of Wobblers which shows up very young. But in Dobes it usually makes an appearance at 4ish to 6 years. And holding up a rear foot or not wanting to let you stack him with weight on the foot isn't typical of Wobblers either.

The front leg lameness is very possibly entirely unrelated to the stuff in the rear--and there are dozens of things that could cause it--muscle strains--that could be pad related--a bruised pad will cause limping for sure but they usually go away rapidly--puppies heal quickly. How long has he been limping on the front leg now?

I would at least curtail all exercise right now for at least a week (if he's still limping) and if at the end of a week of drastically restricted exercise--potty on leash the whole nine yards--he is still limping I really would get a referral to an orthopedist.

Just out of curiosity can you describe what you saw in the rear movement that just seemed off? Was it consistent from the time you first got him to the point where you finally had him x-rayed?

Lexxsmom · 05-25-2008, 05:48 PM

He has seen a specialist, as i mentioned, she is a specialist in physiotherepy and injury re training. I'm not sure if she is an orthopedist... I would kind of assume so, but i will find out. she is very well regarded and saw nothing wrong with him in terms of ACL etc tears or strains, muscle mass, weight, balance or structure.

He has been seen by several handlers, breeders etc, his conformation is perfect, no conformation issues that should cause the movement.

I am thinking that the front may not be related to the rear, perhaps the front is a bruise and the rear something entirely different. The front leg has been a problem for about the last... mm maybe 5 weeks, but only after strenuous exercise and even then, not consistently. I put him on crate rest/ reduced exercise for 5 days after the first time and he was fine after, but it re occured after training again however, not after a long run. He usually only shows symptoms for about a day and then is ready to go, bouncing etc... i try to keep him calm etc for atleast 3 days after i see him limp.

he is always tied for potty so no running happens there.

yes, he has always held up his rear leg while eating/ stacked weird on that leg. since 8 weeks.

as for describing the movement... its very difficult, almost like instead of moving the leg straight forward under himself, he will actually lift it up and then forward in almost a two motion movement... he doesn't do it every step either, just sometimes. it used to look like a slight FLICK to the outside ( ie right side) almost like a bunny hop, but not as pronounced.

He exhibited the flicking movement right away from a pup. it seemed to get better and then worse again, but has never seemed to bother him in any way.

as for the tests for pano... he isn't in ANY pain. I can grab his legs, press on his long bones etc. Two vets have also looked at him regarding pano and don't think thats what this is. He hasn't been xrayed though.

I feel that i should also mention that lexx has NEVER undergone any forced exercise. he has never run on pavement, i've never biked him, roller bladed him etc. He has done a lot of off leash running/exploring on the dirt/grass trails through the woods behind my house but never forced. He did absolutely no agility work ( jumping etc) until 10 months, and then only tiny little jumps, and only one or two.

hope this helps....

DLS · 05-25-2008, 05:52 PM

PANOSTEITIS: begins at about 6 months of age. Cause unknown. Also known as Wandering lameness. clinical signs: lameness, reluctance to walk, occasional inappetence, and fever. If the affected leg is firmly squeezed, pain responses are elicited. In differentiating pain associated with pano from other lamnesses, isolating the painful area on the long bone is importanmt. The pano pain area is located in the middle of the long bone while pain from areas of hypertrophic osteodystrphy and rheumotoid arthritis are near the joint. Recurring lameness may involve the same leg or affect another leg. numerous episodes occur over several months with each period of lameness lasting 1 - 30 days.
diagnosis is made from histroy, clinical signs, and radiograph findings. three phases can be differentiated on x-ray providing the affected bone is included in the radiographic evaluation. Each phase reflects a seperate period in the process of the disease.
Treatment is symptomatic using asprin, phenylbutazone, and cortisone for pain relief. Pano is self limited and causes no permanent changes. On occasion, however, pain is svere enough to cause a compensatory deviation in normal movement. Sometimes this deviation remains after the disease has run its course. Pano occurs in certain families. Although inherited traits have not yet been proven, it appears to be passed on through asymptomatic brood bitch carriers.

Having said all that and read all your posts I do not think it is pano. I noticed in the last pictures of Lexx that he favors that hind leg. What do you know about the health of the dogs in his pedigree. Have any of them ever been diagnosed with Wobblers? I know it usually does not manifest itself until a dog is older but, I have seen a couple of pups who showed symptoms as early as 8 weeks. One used to yelp occasionally when she barked, vet thought it was an ear infection, more signs of woblers emerged as she grew, occasional lameness, pain when she lifted her head, never stood still when she ate or drank, she was positively diagnosed with CVI at the age of 2 with an MRI. Another male pup I saw at 12 weeks of age, his owner had told me that ever since she got him he never moved correctly, even though he was graded by his breeder as show quality {and he was a beauty, nice balanced dog}. By the time he was 6 months of age he was crippled, he could not move in a straight line and had no strength in his rear. When he was 2 years of age he was in constant pain and was pts.

I would suggest that if you run out of options for treaments and are still getting no results or if Lexx's symptoms get worse that you do an MRI and check for wobblers.

**Jenny** · 05-25-2008, 06:00 PM

That is odd - I don't have any words of wisdom for you but I do hope you find an answer - I think not knowing is the worst! Hope Lexx feels better soon.

heartbroken · 05-25-2008, 09:26 PM

So sorry to read this about Lexx! Previous posters have offered lots of good info, perhaps one of the vets (reddobes?) will chime in with additional advice. Like you, I would continue to question and pursue professional diagnostics further. Good luck, hope to read more optimistic updates from you.