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Old 02-14-2013, 11:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I am looking at briarwood for possibly getting a red girl or black from bel-mar.
Or waiting till spring for a possible litter from kerr kennels. Not sure who to go with!
Also red vs black anyone thk one is better health wise than the other?


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Old 02-15-2013, 05:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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honestly, which do YOU prefer? if the dog's well bred i doubt there's much difference between a red dog and a black dog in the health department. what's the health like in the parent dogs? how are the different pedigrees of the litters in question?
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:16 AM   #3 (permalink)
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ETA: wrong Kerr kennels.

With either I them I would ask for proof of health testing

I watched his doberman male fail his IPO 1 last year. The dog did not look like he should be on the field competing for a schutzhund title, but considering he failed, it obviously was not a good performance for them. His lines are drastically different than briarwoods so what exactly are you looking for?

Do you want a euro or American doberman? Are you planning on working the dog in schutzhund? If so I would not recommend either of those

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Old 02-15-2013, 10:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I have friends with Briarwood dogs and they are great dogs! BelMar I don't know much about but her website doesn't give any information at all.... If you are going to have a website, imo, it isn't hard to keep them updated. Takes me all of 5 minutes to update mine.

Looks like you are searching in the Ohio area. There are a lot of good breeders in that area, I just spent some time with Quartet Dobermans and really like them.

As far as color and health: no difference between reds and blacks health wise in my experience. However my reds just seem to have a little more kick to them.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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ETA: wrong Kerr kennels.

With either I them I would ask for proof of health testing

I watched his doberman male fail his IPO 1 last year. The dog did not look like he should be on the field competing for a schutzhund title, but considering he failed, it obviously was not a good performance for them. His lines are drastically different than briarwoods so what exactly are you looking for?

Do you want a euro or American doberman? Are you planning on working the dog in schutzhund? If so I would not recommend either of those
Seems they have king of darkness dogs...aren't those showline dogs? as in not really all that suitable for working sport.


And ditto the questions, what is it you're looking for OP?
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
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My girl is sired by a briarwood dog (Dam is from Gorrmae). I have spoken with Linda and found her to be very helpful and forthcoming and would recommend her to others looking for a dog.

Black or Red should only factor in on preference, not health concerns. Good luck in your puppy search!
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
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BelMar I don't know much about but her website doesn't give any information at all.... If you are going to have a website, imo, it isn't hard to keep them updated. Takes me all of 5 minutes to update mine.
I think that you should consider that some breeders out there are senior citizens and probably aren't as tech savvy as you. Granted, there are some seniors that have really taken to the computer age, but there are many who haven't and/or won't, and have someone else put up and maintain their sites and that comes with its own set of problems.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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My foundation Bicth came from Bel-Mar. She was the best dober gal EVER. Priscilla travels a lot it is best to call her.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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have not heard bel-mar mentioned in a longtime.

there was this young male..........now i have to go see if i can find him.

briarwood has been around for a longtime too.........one of the first breeders to breed to the windwalker if i remember rightly...........and used .night ryder.........in fact i do think i see a lot of night ryder type in many briarwood dogs...............
NO i was mistaken...it was Brierpatch doberman.....so many B breeders at the same time with nice dogs.

there was beaulane, electra and briarwood with similar type............

hmmmmm, time to bring out the ol' DQ's and refresh this ol' brain.

cara708..........good luck with your research and search for just the right dog.

as to black or red..................i would 9 out of 10 times choose a black and tan.............. just cause i like em the best!
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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have not heard bel-mar mentioned in a longtime.

there was this young male..........now i have to go see if i can find him.

briarwood has been around for a longtime too.........one of the first breeders to breed to the windwalker if i remember rightly...........and used .night ryder.........in fact i do think i see a lot of night ryder type in many briarwood dogs...............
NO i was mistaken...it was Brierpatch doberman.....so many B breeders at the same time with nice dogs.

there was beaulane, electra and briarwood with similar type............

hmmmmm, time to bring out the ol' DQ's and refresh this ol' brain.

cara708..........good luck with your research and search for just the right dog.

as to black or red..................i would 9 out of 10 times choose a black and tan.............. just cause i like em the best!
HA HA HA... I do that too!! Grab my old digests and Doberman Magazines. Between Grace I Moore and The AWESOME Dr. Sam Grant I have so many older magazines I am spoiled!!! STarting from the 70's to now.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Just talked to Priscilla from Bel-mar. I dont want to down her but I wont be purchasing from her. She does no health tests what so ever. I for one have had liver disease with my first dobie and she died at 3. She doesnt do even minimum vwd or hips. No thanks. Onto briarwood to ck them out.



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Old 02-15-2013, 08:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cara708 View Post
Just talked to Priscilla from Bel-mar. I dont want to down her but I wont be purchasing from her. She does no health tests what so ever. I for one have had liver disease with my first dobie and she died at 3. She doesnt do even minimum vwd or hips. No thanks. Onto briarwood to ck them out.
Wow are you in a hurry or what? Figured since you're health minded you'd be giving yourself the obligatory pedigree headaches already given the links passed on to you in the other thread you started.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Just talked to Priscilla from Bel-mar. I dont want to down her but I wont be purchasing from her. She does no health tests what so ever. I for one have had liver disease with my first dobie and she died at 3. She doesnt do even minimum vwd or hips. No thanks. Onto briarwood to ck them out.



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The testing you really need to be focusing on, not that it all isn't important, is cardio.

A minimum of annual holters/echoes on the ancestors of the litter, along with researching the pedigree of the litter, for causes of death.

Since 50% of Dobermans succumb to heart disease, this is not to be taken lightly or to listen to half-baked excuses. Ask for documentation of testing.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:06 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Not in a hurry. Just have time to research. Have been emailing people for hrs today. Thanks!


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Old 02-16-2013, 01:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Ok well...hmmm
I'll post this just in case it helps someone.
The DPCA | Longevity Program | Frozen Semen Listing


maybe cross reference some of them here.
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals <-(published health test results- but must be breeder/owner submitted)

Puppies on Ice, Inc. :: Find a Breed


Really love that Jana Dupre stored her dogs- favs being Jet & Shelby.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I am looking for only pet quality. I dont show.


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Old 02-16-2013, 03:35 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I am looking for only pet quality. I dont show.


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There are few litters where all the dogs are show quality.
If I lost 3 dobes tragically at young ages I would either get out of them or buy from people who are taking it to the nth degree with lots of teenagers sprinkled in the background, at the very least.

I haven't gotten to the point, and hope I never do, where it's only the surface of a pedigree, or dawg forbid, proximity- that matters to me.

If that were the case ~right now~ I'd go out & get the prettiest rescue I could find. There is no shortage of pedigree-killers lookswise languishing in rescue waiting for their person.

Anyway, ATM I'm just sort of typing out loud on the off chance someone lurking gets something out of my posts. Carry on.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:21 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I am looking for only pet quality. I dont show.


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That's no excuse not to do the research and find a healthy breeder with good pedigrees. You want to stack the deck in your favor for a healthy longer lived dog.

Only roughly one or two puppies in most litters are totally show worthy, the rest are so as "pets" on restricted contracts, just as beautiful but not as perfect as the others.

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Old 02-16-2013, 10:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
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cara708, forgot to say............

check out petfinder for Dobes in need of homes in your area.

http://www.petfinder.com/pet-search?...startsearch=Go
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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ETA: wrong Kerr kennels.

With either I them I would ask for proof of health testing

I watched his doberman male fail his IPO 1 last year. The dog did not look like he should be on the field competing for a schutzhund title, but considering he failed, it obviously was not a good performance for them. His lines are drastically different than briarwoods so what exactly are you looking for?

Do you want a euro or American doberman? Are you planning on working the dog in schutzhund? If so I would not recommend either of those


Yes he did fail, he was not ready. He did get his ZTP V1A in NC on Nov 10th and took Best,
The King of Darkness bitch that was there took 2nd on her ZTP V1B, I believe she was the only female. You won't see him as 5 days after he came home from NC he bloated. So before you make statements about anyone's dogs learn the facts, and yes they were all health tested, go look on the ofa page, what have you breed? what are your dogs health tests and titles? What are your lines? Not to start a pissing match here, but give these people a break!
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy View Post
ETA: wrong Kerr kennels.

With either I them I would ask for proof of health testing

I watched his doberman male fail his IPO 1 last year. The dog did not look like he should be on the field competing for a schutzhund title, but considering he failed, it obviously was not a good performance for them. His lines are drastically different than briarwoods so what exactly are you looking for?

Do you want a euro or American doberman? Are you planning on working the dog in schutzhund? If so I would not recommend either of those


Yes he did fail, he was not ready. He did get his ZTP V1A in NC on Nov 10th and took Best,
The King of Darkness bitch that was there took 2nd on her ZTP V1B, I believe she was the only female. You won't see him as 5 days after he came home from NC he bloated. So before you make statements about anyone's dogs learn the facts, and yes they were all health tested, go look on the ofa page, what have you breed? what are your dogs health tests and titles? What are your lines? Not to start a pissing match here, but give these people a break!
I simply stated my opinion on the dog after watching him first hand. He did not seem to simply be lack in training, but lack in genetic ability overall (although good training can hide some of this). I didn't say any of the dogs weren't health tested, just said to ask for proof like I would do with ANY breeder!!

If I were looking for an exceptional working dog or American line dog, I would not recommend that breeder if the male I saw was the sire. Considering she just wants a pet then maybe she should look further into him if his dogs are what she is looking for.

I do not breed because A my pet male is neutered, b. my working male is not what I think should be used in improving the breed (despite good working ability), and c. My female is untitled, untested and it is still too early to tell if she will be breeding quality. I will never personally be involved in the breeding of a dog who is not exceptional. There are plenty fun loving good looking pets. I do not need to be a breeder to be able to evaluate a dogs performance after watching them trial.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:54 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I simply stated my opinion on the dog after watching him first hand. He did not seem to simply be lack in training, but lack in genetic ability overall (although good training can hide some of this). I didn't say any of the dogs weren't health tested, just said to ask for proof like I would do with ANY breeder!!

If I were looking for an exceptional working dog or American line dog, I would not recommend that breeder if the male I saw was the sire. Considering she just wants a pet then maybe she should look further into him if his dogs are what she is looking for.

I do not breed because A my pet male is neutered, b. my working male is not what I think should be used in improving the breed (despite good working ability), and c. My female is untitled, untested and it is still too early to tell if she will be breeding quality. I will never personally be involved in the breeding of a dog who is not exceptional. There are plenty fun loving good looking pets. I do not need to be a breeder to be able to evaluate a dogs performance after watching them trial.
You only have your op and since you stated, the way I would take it is your dogs are of poor quality correct so what makes you the all knowing one? You do know what they say about op everyone has one. Op. like yours is what drives people away from this forum. One more question you have never had a bad day at work? You are right up to snuff every day? Never been sluggish? God it must be nice to be so wonderful. Sorry more than one question. Be honest be fair, ask why before you make your op. Like I said I don't what to get into a pissing match, just think before you judge. I to can make some statements on some dogs that I have seen, but we all have off days.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:03 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Ok ill put it this way. I prefer working dobermans from European working lines. There are some nice euro show line dogs who work well, but the consistency is not the same as with true working lines. I have seen plenty of dogs fail but show more genetic ability. My dog randomly has terrible performances as well but he is not from working lines and is low drive overall. My high drive dog is pretty consistent, perfect or not, the higher drive dog has much more consistency.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:43 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Ok what lines do you have and were did he come from? What are you titles do you have?
What health tests have you done? Are all health tests post on the OFA under his reg name?
What is his reg name so we all can look it up his info and were are his titles post?
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:40 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Ok what lines do you have and were did he come from? What are you titles do you have?
What health tests have you done? Are all health tests post on the OFA under his reg name?
What is his reg name so we all can look it up his info and were are his titles post?
This is so irrelevant to the original posters question. If you really care that much, feel free to pm me.
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