Xempt Dobermans

I am having a hard time finding breeders in Argentina. I love the look of the dobermans that come out of there and am looking to import a show potential bitch from there to hopefully serve as the foundation of my future breeding efforts. I know of Black Shadow kennels and really like some of the dogs they have produced but want to research some more kennels as I want to be really picky. Also open to breeders from other countries that have quality dogs that people feel should be being brought into the US.

Q734

This breed needs longevity. People need to start demanding it.


/me broken record

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New here looking for a breeder to get your dog from?
Check out links BELOW for health testing behind sires & dams when considering a puppy.

Each link has something different to offer.
> http://dobequest.org/ (<-incomplete but worthwhile)

*http://www.offa.org/

>http://www.dpca.org/longevity/listsemen.php

>http://www.puppiesonice.com/breed.cfm?breedid=56
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workingk9s

A. I thought you found a show litter here? Did that fall through?

B. Sorry, can't help you on SA breeders. The look is not my thing, nor is a lot of the temperament I am seeing.

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Darkevs

what doberman standard do they breed by in argentina?

so many i have seen are very 'extreme' in type to my eye.

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Xempt Dobermans

I have found a litter here. I am doing research for dogs in the future. I would like to import some to bring in some fresh blood to the US. Some SA dogs are very extreme but others are not as extreme hence why I said I am open to other countries as well and will be extremely picky. This is why I am researching now because I know it will take me a good year or two maybe even longer to find something that fits what I am looking for.

Darkevs

cool, do you have any links to argentina bred dobes who are more balanced?

and do you know if they follow the DPCA standard or the FCI or their own?

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Thanks for making this signature for me Amelia!

Xempt Dobermans

I believe it is DPCA but can't find anywhere right now that says for sure.

sullylas

Checking out the Black Shadow website to see what everyone means by "extreme". Looks like their crests are super curved, very horse-like in appearance. I kinda like it : ) not so much the super-pronounced chests, on some of Black Shadow's dogs it looks like the front legs are set back a little, I'm not sure if it is because the chest is pushed out so far... (namely Waldo de Black Shadow) I'm definitely novice at critiquing doberman confirmation, but those things to stand out to me. They do seem to fit within the DPCA standard, even though the size/orientation of my widescreen computer makes it look like they all have super long backs and short legs lol

ataro

Argentina follows the FCI standard (it's on their Dobermann club website). The FCI website also lists all the member countries: http://www.fci.be/membres.aspx


I'm just curious - what kinds of temperaments have you seen in the US from Argentinian dogs?

I was living in Mexico up until 6 months ago and there are a lot of imports as well as influence from South America, but I can't say I saw any negative trends in terms of temperament. If anything, I'm shocked by the bad temperaments I've witnessed from showline Dobes in Germany.

Xempt Dobermans

I also have to agree with the temperament question. I have come in contact with a few dogs from Argentina and have thought their temperaments were awesome.

Thanks for clarifying what standard they use.

Kansadobe

There are plenty of South American bred Dobermans in this country already. There would be nothing new about importing one.

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Xempt Dobermans

There is technically nothing "new" about importing a doberman from anywhere because good breeders do that to further the breed. When I say new, I mean importing a dog that has fewer ancestors in its pedigree than what is circulating currently here in the states. I understand that we export to these breeders so some of the dogs would show up but that is why I stated I am going to be extremely picky. I will look deeply into pedigrees and lineage and such.

Kansadobe

And just what dogs might that be? Please give us the names.

Thanks.

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Xempt Dobermans

I don't believe that I stated anywhere that I had found a dog that fit this criteria. I said that I was looking for something. Not exactly sure why you are putting off attitude.

MaryAndDobes

Since you've previously mentioned that you don't own a Doberman yet, and haven't before, doncha think you might want to live with a Doberman and do some learning about them before you're planning to breed them?

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Xempt Dobermans

No I have never personally owned a doberman but I have lived with them for many years. As my post stated I have a puppy on the way and am just looking into possibilities down the road a year or more. I am a planner. So I like to start researching early on. I have done about two years research before I finally chose my first puppy. So please read all my posts before you tell me what I should do. I am being a smart owner and future breeder by doing research way in advance rather than getting to the point I want another dog and haven't done any research and trying to rush around doing research then. I feel that I am being a responsible person in that sense.

Xempt Dobermans

I view breeding as a huge commitment and responsibility and it will be years before I produce my first litter I am sure, but having a good knowledge of breeders from other countries furthers my research and goals.

falnfenix

to my understanding you're looking at more than a year down the road before you can seriously consider breeding. what are your plans with the dog you already have on the way?

Dobes&Hounds

With your intention you are probably NOT going to get a quality bitch from a reputable breeder.
You haven't done anything in the breed at all. All the studying and research doesn't amount to a hill of beans as compared to the experience it takes to be a breeder. I would find a mentor in the US and get a few years of practical experience before you even consider breeding.

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AgileDobe

With all do respect, you are putting cart way before the horse. There are so many things that you need to do and learn about before you are looking for a prospective foundation bitch. The reality is you don't even have your first doberman yet, and have never had a show dog.

Planning ahead and putting forethought into everything is good, and planning well ahead is important, but you are sort of skipping from point A to Point Z without really doing everything in between. I don't mean this to be insulting, just thought provoking.

You haven't even begun to step foot into the show world, which frankly has a pretty high drop out rate from new people. You have yet to figure out if showing is something you can do long term and want devote the majority of your time to. It would be great if it turned out you enjoy it and it becomes a passion, but there are plenty of people where it turns out to not be their thing, and that's okay too. There are also plenty of people who never make the step between showing and breeding which is just fine.

I think you also need to to take some time and become a student of the breed, it's great that you are willing to do research, but it takes years and you can never truly know it all. Spending countless hours with other breeders, mentors and friends going over dogs, learning the standard, talking about pedigrees, asking questions, getting to really know the breed. This all extends to health too, the last thing you want to do is start with a foundation bitch who is dead by six.

There is a huge difference between those who are just breeding to win in the show ring and those who who are really working to preserve the breed. It's not that you can't win and protect the breed at the same time, it's all a balancing act.

As far as starting with a South American based line, there really is nothing new about it, there plenty of breeders who have imported or used dogs with SA lineage. It would also be MUCH easier to work with the breeder of any foundation stock you have, as they will know their lines better than anyone else. Don't you think that at least working with a breeder in the same country as you, who will be breeding to the same standard, and knowledgeable of the lines here in the US might be helpful. Just food for thought.

In short, get out spend some time in the breed, get to know your first doberman, ask questions, read and learn. Explore other events with your dog, learn about temperament. You have a long ways to go before you even think about breeding.

Sorry for any typos, I was typing this on my phone.

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Xempt Dobermans

I have been in the dog show world almost my whole life. My parents showed and bred yorkies. I know that the yorkie show ring is not near as cut throat and political as the doberman ring but a show ring is a show ring. I know that I enjoy showing and everything that goes with it.

Everyone keeps telling me to get mentors and talk to breeders and this and that. Having stated over and over and over that I am a researcher do you not think that I have done all of this. I have at least three breeders that I talk to pretty regularly. One of them being David from Rahdy. I have been talking to him for a while now and he has a wealth of information. Michelle at A'Carigg has also been a huge help to me. Yes I understand I need to talk to breeders and get out there and that is what I have been doing for the last two years.

And I as stated previously I know there is not technically anything new about importing from SA because people are doing it. My goal was to try and find some lines that are not heavily being bred here.

I also do have plans of doing other events like agility and obedience and such. I have had other threads talking about that as well and have talked to breeders and trainers and been to events.

So unless someone has some pertinent information to my OP I would appreciate people to stop telling me what I need to do, because so far no one has told me anything I need to do that I have not been doing for the last two years. Not trying to be rude I just get frustrated how sometimes people constantly high jack people threads with this that and the other thing not offering information that was asked for. If you feel I am out of line please PM me don't high jack the thread that may be beneficial to someone else as well.

Sinister

I feel like OP needs to go to some AKC dog shows in their area.

And on top of that, stop trying to be a "future breeder" just enjoy this breed. Don't ruin it.

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Xempt Dobermans

The OP does go to AKC dog shows and has been for the last few years.

Part of enjoying the breed to me is the ability to further the breed through breeding. I am not trying to become some huge breeder. Don't plan on ever having more than two or three dogs with MAYBE a litter a year. They will be my pets first and my working dog second.

Sinister

But you post like you have NO idea what you are doing.REPUTABLE BREEDERS here have already voted against you having a puppy from them. Lets see you finish a dog, health test, pick a compatible match, then go through all the motions of a reputable breeder.

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Xempt Dobermans

How do I post like I have no idea what I am doing? Just because I asked for references to breeders out of the country? Because I have stated over and over that I am looking for something in the future and just want to know who is out there? I don't see how me doing my homework way in advance is me acting like I have no idea of what I am doing.

I have a upbringing in showing and breeding. I helped with my parents yorkies until I graduated high school and left the house. That involved me taking care of the dogs, helping choose breedings, grooming, and everything else that goes along with it.

I feel that one of the best ways to pick a good mate for your dog is knowing its lineage. By starting to follow kennels and the dogs they are producing and the breedings they are doing now, I will have a better understanding of who would be a good match for my dog down the road after I see how he matures and see his strong and weak points.