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Old 02-09-2013, 11:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Sire from 1973? :O) How far back do collections run?

I wasn't sure where to put this thread...so here it is.

Where can I find out if this was a typo?
Or would anyone here happen to know?

click on the sire to see what I mean.

Dobequestog Profile Page

So this makes me wonder how far back dogs are collected. Anyone...
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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They were collecting dogs in the 70's. I never did it, but know a number of breeders (not necessarily Dobermans), that did. If of course, this is what you mean.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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That is beyond cool- omg I could cry... to think of what happened to those who had dogs collected & what happened to the stored?
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:11 AM   #4 (permalink)
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most who had their dogs 'collected' and stored, did it for their own use, not for public studding.

some put time limits on storage.....so say after 10 years the 'sperm' was destroyed.

of course there are breeders who sell their dogs 'sperm' even after the dog has died............they advertise this on their web sites.

can't remember what the costs for collecting and storage was back in the 70's.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think it is awesome that we can bring the genetics of past dogs forward to be used with dogs of today. The ability to further the breed through these means is amazing. I am hoping to get a puppy out of a litter that was done from this. Rahdy's Sail the Seven Seas "sired" a litter that I am extremely excited about even if they decide to keep all the puppies and I don't get one. Being able to see this litter grow and mature will be a awesome experience. And he is just a sire from 1991 so not quite as far back as the one you are saying.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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not that i did not like the Rahdy dogs from that S breeding as they did produce some nice dogs.

i think there are way too many bred down from Kafka............

no need to bring it back close up, so to speak.

but on second thought.............ya know.............why not?
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I do agree that there are lots of dogs that stem from there, but the dogs from those breeders were amazing producers. The main reason I am looking forward to it is I think it will give a great opportunity to breed into some lines that maybe aren't as strong currently to add some of the amazing qualities that are produced from these dogs. My ultimate goal would be to get a dog from this breeding and import a strong bitch with some fresh blood to start the foundation of my breeding.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I really wish there was a push to use more frozen from the past, especially those long lived before the medications now artificially putting years on dogs. Yeah maybe not on a virgin bitch...but afterward.

While I think it's great we can extend dcm dog's lives I think it's important to know how the dogs got those years into the minimum 10LC range. Back then they didn't have that to fall back on.

While it doesn't say how long that dog lived in the above example I think it's so very awesome to contemplate the availability of such dogs.


eta: I really wish the Eddie thing would end. It continues on, to this day. If it's not happened already seems the only way to get away from them would to be to scrounge the back woods or scour the earth for an Eddie/Kafka-free line.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Xempt Dobermans, i see your reasoning.

good luck.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Q.....i used to think that way too.

now i am not so sure bringing back the past is such a good idea when it comes to breeding doberman.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Q.....i used to think that way too.

now i am not so sure bringing back the past is such a good idea when it comes to breeding doberman.
With every pedigree being so narrow these days I don't understand the reasoning why not?
There is a serious bottleneck problem that's being perpetuated. I don't know how any breed could survive such a thing.

eta: feel free to pm me as I'm curious to know why you would say that?.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I do agree that there is a bottleneck. But I feel the bottleneck starts more at Eddie which I understand then goes back to Sinbad and Kafka, but with my thinking that is why I am glad this breeding was done. Starting over with them and getting the line bred into some new lines and not continuously breeding into the Kafka line but more trying to breed more into the new blood so over say four or five generations the you don't see the Kafka strongly in the pedigree but see the qualities that those pedigrees produce. Maybe I am just a dreamer lol and I do realize that it would take more than just me focusing on doing this but I think it is a good goal and can be reached.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I guess my thinking is kind of like on a phone rather than do a factory reset I want to do a soft reboot.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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i keep hearing about these 'narrowing' pedigrees...............



breed......out......then come back in..............all the while keeping your type..how hard can it be.

if you are referring to how to breed out say...DCM.............aint gonna happen by bringing in dogs from the past.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Maybe I was misunderstood. I don't think that pedigrees are getting too narrow. Pedigrees of all breeds have dogs that they go back to mainly. This is due to that line producing amazing dogs. The main reason I like bringing a dog back from the past is it gives us a opportunity to put a dog that has produced amazing pedigrees in with dogs that are from amazing pedigrees. This gives even more quality to the current litters pedigree therefore giving even more strength to producing a litter out of those puppies with a pedigree that has some amazing qualities but maybe are not consist producers. This plan of mine could back fire as well. The side of the pedigree that doesn't produce consistently could have some of the less desirable traits show through more than the strong qualities of the other side.

I hope that made sense.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I guess my main reason for this hope is my parents did something similar with yorkies and it worked out extremely well for them. I do realize it will take a good amount of luck for my plan to work but nothing risked nothing gained.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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i was talking to Q. in reference to narrowing pedigrees.

but, it really does not matter what i think as i do not 'do' doberman anymore.

I do hope though.....to see breeders doing something new.

that is all.

as i said though............good luck with your breeding program.

and.....Hugz to ALL Doberman!
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thanks!
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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i keep hearing about these 'narrowing' pedigrees...............

Well...that was my impression when digging thru pedigrees on my search for the "unicorn". Albeit, I only got it partially right, my boy's sire still isn't stud du jour...which is what I see when looking @show programs these days...same dogs over 'n over, then some more, 2.0, 3.0 ad infinitum.

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breed......out......then come back in..............all the while keeping your type..how hard can it be.

if you are referring to how to breed out say...DCM.............aint gonna happen by bringing in dogs from the past.
Maybe not, but piling on the oversaturated dogs surely isn't the answer.

Not to you or anyone directly in particular- it too often appears that some are under a hypnotic denial in order to reach a structural goal while the house is burning down.

Most apparent while reading over people glowing over each others puppies whose sire just dropped dead at 7....and this could go for many different sires at the moment. No mention of concern over the elephant in the room.

I really truly hope someone starting to consider a future in dobes begins with unicorn hunting and sticking to it by finding like-minded, because the breed needs new people who care and vote with their $$$$$.

Ok, going off to have a good cry.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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hugz Q.

all who love this breed have been where you are now.

you keep looking for that unicorn!

i have not given up either.

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Old 02-10-2013, 06:43 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I believe that longevity not only comes from breeding but also the care given to the dogs. Not that breeders are not caring for their dogs but it is the same thing as with humans. The more medicine we find and make the more problems we seem to have.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:53 PM   #22 (permalink)
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well said.

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Old 02-10-2013, 06:56 PM   #23 (permalink)
Owned by Dobes since 1975
 
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dang i keep losing my internet connection..........

the world of today is hard on both man and beast.

we are both dying younger these days.................

and our last years seem to be wrought with ailments.

for oh so many reasons.

i believe that 'happy/content' beings ...........have the healthiest longevity.

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Last edited by Darkevs; 02-10-2013 at 07:01 PM..
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I completely agree if you enjoy your life and stress as little as possible you seem to live longer. I also think the all work and no play effects it too. Thats why one of my biggest fears is that I will get a dog that doesn't enjoy being shown because as soon as I noticed that I would stop showing him or her. Another reason I am a big advocate of having your dog participate in things other than just conformation. The joy I see my friends dogs get out of agility is an awesome sight.
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