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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Looking for Euro working line breeders.

Hello all..

Been a while since I've been on the forum..

After a lot of saving and planning, I think I'm finally ready to have a doberman in my life again. I'm hoping to find a breeder with what I'm looking for that will be having a litter late this year/early next.

I'm looking for a breeder with Euro working lines (I'm looking for a black male). I'm interested in Schutzhund work and maybe some French Ring, both for pleasure for myself and my dog . (Also likely, and possibly, some CGC and therapy work as well.) I say pleasure as I'm still a novice and wouldn't be getting any serious titles on a dog in my company anytime soon but would definitely want a dog that was capable of work. I am extremely physically active and I would like a dog that needs to be challenged and worked (both mentally and physically) but also has an off switch to be able to enjoy low key days off. However, the confirmation aspect is also just as important to me. The big chests and gorgeous heads of many East European lines are extremely appealing to me. Health is of utmost importance as well. The sire and dam will need to be work titled and have health tests/the certification to show they are healthy and their progeny won't be getting sick/dropping dead 5 years down the line..

I have spoken with Jelena of Gem Givveeoon (Her male Unison is exactly what I'm looking for in terms of looks...) but she doesn't think she'll be having any pups this year and told me I should expand my search.

While the dog and health, drive, and confirmation are important to me, having a breeder that cares about their dogs and their lives is also important. I'm looking for a breeder that wants to keep in touch, frequently.

I realize I am asking for a lot, but the last dog/breeder I had were about as perfect as perfect gets (I'm expanding my search since this breeder doesn't think the confirmation aspect will be there in the female he has, he has incredible working lines in his female though).

If you know of any breeder with what I'm looking for, could you please give me their contact information so I can get in touch and introduce myself?

Much thanks DT.



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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 03:43 PM
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This is a list of euro breeders in the states not all are working line some are all show others working/show crosses. I added the states of the breeders I could remember/know

Incredible as well as one or two of the others (or more) has a gem givveon dog

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Welcome to DT. Check out the UDC: Official Website of the United Doberman Club


All in the US:

Adlercrest
vom Koby Haus
vom Landgraf
von Luka
Incredible Dobermans (california)
Kansa Dobe (kansas)
Beja
Delmira (california)
LJ Kye
Feverone
First Stryk
Cara
Masaya (kentucky)
Swift Run (kentucky)
von Moellerhof
Wustensturm
de Tejas (texas)
von Hess
vom Zenhof
Bell'Lavoro
*original post by sam&macksmom

As far as canda goes I only know a few names and i'm not sure they're what you're looking for.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 06:20 PM
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It sounds like you are actually looking for a European Show Line breeder.... You had a pure working line breeder, but you'll have to go to 'show lines' to get what you want. There is always a random working line dog that turns out beautifully, but if looks are that important, I would look for a breeder that uses Euro show lines but also titles their own dogs in Schutzhund.

Incredible Dobes is the first one that comes to mind with pretty dogs that can work. Feverhaus and Bell lavoro also produce dogs with the look I believe you like.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies folks, I appreciate it.



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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 10:48 PM
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Rebholzer has a Hot Guy son as well...they got missed on the list

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 11:18 PM
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I was privileged to receive v. adlercrest pup for this very thing. I am amazed at the personality of my guy. If you are interested, I think they are planning a spring litter. Diezel is over the top smart and I hope I am able to do him justice.
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 11:26 PM
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Prime says those euro chests got nothin' on his all american....;p
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 12:08 AM
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I think you are being a bit unrealistic and you will have to compromise on some of the traits you're looking for. You probably already knew this though. There just aren't that many breeders out there producing dogs with even half of those criteria. If health and conformation are top priorities a good compromise would be to find a well established AM show breeder steadily producing dogs with conformation titles and good longevity and who competes in agility or another sport.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 02:24 AM
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I think you are being a bit unrealistic and you will have to compromise on some of the traits you're looking for. You probably already knew this though. There just aren't that many breeders out there producing dogs with even half of those criteria. If health and conformation are top priorities a good compromise would be to find a well established AM show breeder steadily producing dogs with conformation titles and good longevity and who competes in agility or another sport.
And the likelihood that such a dog would have what it takes to do bite sports is ??? A Euro show line dog from a quality breeder in the states probably sounds like her best bet to me.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 08:31 AM
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I'm suggesting doing agility as an alternative to mondio ring or schutzhund. Since she is an active person it's definitely something she could enjoy with the dog. Also if conformation is a large concern of hers it's not likely she will be at all successful with a working bred dog and we know UDC conformation events few and far between in comparison to AKC.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 08:35 AM
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No offense, but the op did not express interest in conformation events. She said she is just attracted to the east European chests and heads. To me it sounds like she just wants a nice looking European type dog who can also play around in sports. There is a pretty drastic difference between akc show line and Eastern European dogs in looks. If she wants a dog that looks like a gem givveon dog, an akc show dog would not fit the bill.

If she DOES want to actually show, yes an American line dog would be better, but I do not believe she wants to.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Asmit View Post
No offense, but the op did not express interest in conformation events. She said she is just attracted to the east European chests and heads. To me it sounds like she just wants a nice looking European type dog who can also play around in sports. There is a pretty drastic difference between akc show line and Eastern European dogs in looks. If she wants a dog that looks like a gem givveon dog, an akc show dog would not fit the bill.

If she DOES want to actually show, yes an American line dog would be better, but I do not believe she wants to.
Besides she is in Canada. From what I have seen, if she were to follow the show route, a Euro dog has a better chance of finishing in Canada than it would if it were showing in the USA.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:35 AM
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Just popping in with my small opinion....from what I've seen of the north american (usa and/or canada) gem givveon prodigy she/he could actually have a pretty nice show AND work dog on this side of the sea....just my personal opinion. (rebholzers, hot guy sun doozie for example as well as doberiechs retired girls maia and cleo both GG daughters and bosley a GG son, and our own members girl kahleesi from delmira another GG daughter...)

Popping back out now...

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 11:51 AM
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It's all relative. I have seen a couple of Euro show line dogs in the past 9 years that I thought were impressive. I would consider the vast majority of them so-so at best. To put it in perspective my last dog (who earned 6 straight Sch3/IPO3 titles) I would consider pretty good in some aspects, like prey drive, desire to please, environmental soundness, ability to handle pressure. As far as power and active aggression (ability to take it to the helper without stimulation), mediocre. That said even the dogs I thought were impressive are not what I would personally want to handle.
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks all.

As Asmit and Rosamburg stressed, I am really specific in what I'm looking for in terms of looks/temperament and any potential puppy will need to have the potential to compete at least at a basic level in any bite sport. I'm not looking to go to World Championships but I'm definitely looking to learn. I'm looking for a dog with the right balance of drive and calm that would suit a novice and help me fumble along to learn a thing or two. I definitely need a dog that will WANT to work and be capable of it.

Like I said, I realize I'm setting the bar really high but I had a dog that matched everything I was looking for so I know there will be a puppy out there somewhere that will match what I'm looking for...

It's unlikely a Am show line will have what I'm looking for in terms of temperament, drive, or looks. (Not saying they don't have some great dogs...!!!!! I just don't think any Am lines will have what I'm looking for. On a side note, Zelda, Prime is such a stttuuuuddddddd. He's got a great chest!!)

I am definitely interested in bite sports and I don't think Am dogs bred for agility will have what I'm looking for.

Also, definitely not interested in show... lol.. Confirmation is important to me for looks, not the potential for show. Sorry if I wasn't clear. There's not enough barking and exercise for my active self in the show ring. The show ring looks way too stressful... (Best In Show turned me off the show world forever...... ) I might try it for kicks, but I'm really looking for a four-legged partner in crime to get good and muddy on a field... The rush of a watching a dog right before they hit the sleeve, the tracking, the obedience.. Ah, I love it!!!

Sam, I explored the different GG dogs Jelena told me about that were on this side of the pond but none of the breeders had what I was looking for in terms of work/health/breeder ethics or were no longer breeding..

I've been informed of a few different litters that might just have what I'm looking for, thanks all for the replies everyone. Hopefully I will find the right pup/breeder with the information I've been given so far .



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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 03:57 PM
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Both Wittrock and Chalmar have bred and/or own Champions (conformation) with Sch III titles. I am thinking of specifically:

Can/Int/BISS UDCH Wittrock's ZZZZZaaron AM/Can CD,B,AD,VCX,CGC,T2,ROMC,SCH III
and Ch Chalmars Big Red One SCH III, IPO III, AD, BH, CGC, ROM, ZTP V1A

Also Lynn Kaargard (Viking Dobermans), has a very nice CH boy that she bred and did some Sch work with. AKC/UDX CH Viking's Charlie Brown CDX OA, AXJ, VPG3 IPO3 OB3 TT ZTP1A VCX CGC ROM

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AKC GCH/UKC CH, RO3 Lyndobe's Wheel of Fortune, "Wheeler"
AKC UKC CH Windsong's Fortune Hunter v Shelian, "Spock"
AKC CH Windsong's Fame N Fortune v Shelian, "Fame"

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Good share Avianantics, I had forgotten about Wittrock. They haven't had a litter since 2009 right?

The viking male is also great. Though by the lack of working titles in the pedigree, I'd be a bit worried any progeny wouldn't have the kick I need. But, I'm no expert...

If you knew of a litter where any of those male's had been bred to a working line female, I'd definitely take a look.



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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-31-2013, 08:55 PM
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I have a doberman from Masaya Dobermans. I think she looks nice and we are starting in schutzhund. She is showing good working potential, although I think you probably understand there are no solid guarantees with puppies in this sport and I don't want to jinx myself. Brandi (breeder) is great, always available to answer my calls/texts, helped me with ears, etc. Her Masaya Dobermans FB page is a nice little community too. She is planning a breeding with her bitch Cinders any day now (Swift Run's Volcan Masaya IPO3, PSA-PDC, CD, RN, WAC, CDC with Nemo (Dark Nemo vom Koby Haus BH, ZTP V1A, IPO2)

I also really like Landgraf. Wendy has been really helpful even though I don't have a dog from her. I don't know when she is planning a litter next but she produces litters worth waiting around for.

Good luck with your search. There are many other good breeders out there, I'm just speaking about the two I have had personal experience with.
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-31-2013, 09:26 PM
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You may want to check out Moeller Hof; she has a planned breeding coming up, Flint vd Wudritz x Quinna v Aurachgrund.

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 06:26 AM
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Thanks all.


I am definitely interested in bite sports and I don't think Am dogs bred for agility will have what I'm looking for.


.

I participate in Agility, IPO, and Obed. I am always suprised at the lack of respect that agility gets from the other two. From people who have never done agility, especially the excellent level. Sometimes I really have to bite my tongue and do so, that I can continue to learn. Everybody thinks their sport is the pinnacle of dog training.

I have a working line dog myself but I hate to see such blanket statements made.
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 06:37 AM
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I have a Landgraf bitch. Wendy is there for me day and night. She has a litter planned. If you decide to go with her, let me know. I can help you in any way possible.
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
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I participate in Agility, IPO, and Obed. I am always suprised at the lack of respect that agility gets from the other two. From people who have never done agility, especially the excellent level. Sometimes I really have to bite my tongue and do so, that I can continue to learn. Everybody thinks their sport is the pinnacle of dog training.

I have a working line dog myself but I hate to see such blanket statements made.
I agree blanket statements are just that, but the OB and Agility ppl on here say the exact same thing when they've never had any part in IPO sports.

If you look at those in agility, there are FAR more dogs from unknown pedigrees and unproven (in agility) pedigrees doing well in the sport. You simply can not say the same about IPO.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 09:55 AM
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Good share Avianantics, I had forgotten about Wittrock. They haven't had a litter since 2009 right?
I heard Bonnie was no longer breeding but that could just be an untrue rumor.

Have you asked Jelena with the Gem Givveon (sp?) dog that you liked if any breeders have similar lines to her boy that you like? I know nothing about euro lines or pedigrees so I can't really help. But good luck in your search.
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Asmit View Post
If you look at those in agility, there are FAR more dogs from unknown pedigrees and unproven (in agility) pedigrees doing well in the sport. You simply can not say the same about IPO.

Yes, but those are the kind of dogs that would probably be good starter dogs in IPO if their owners were so inclined. There are just a lot less people doing IPO than agility. There are so few, if any, IPO clubs in certain parts of the country and it does take longer to get the "finished " .product

A lot of people just don't have time to drive 2+ hours one way to a club, be there 6 hrs, drive home, once or twice a week.

Last edited by Cathy43; 02-01-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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Kansa just wheped a really nice litter, maybe a week old. They do conformation and working sport. Check them out.

Whitney Newman, Cinematic Dobermans


Click Here to Read a DPCA Article on Ricky Bobby !!!


RATCH UDC CH Intl CH U-GCH AKC GCH Catawba's Power Play CD RA IPO1 ROM ATT VCX CGC URO2 RATI RATM FO P1 ASCA RN "Ricky Bobby"

Raven's Shut Up N' Sing CGC "Sister"

MBPIS U-GCH Quartet n' Cinematic's Eat Your Heart Out RN PTT "Fury"



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