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Old 01-18-2008, 06:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Russian breeder

Anyone ever hear of Modust-Ost?? They are a breeder in Russia. I always like to see their dogs on their website. They have some pretty nice looking European working Dobes. Too bad they are in Russia. I like to watch their videos. I don't know much about their standards in breeding there. Are the temperaments more sharp in European Dobes than here in America??

http://www.modusost.ru/
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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My guy is from a Russian breeding....interesting to see lots of his lines in all the dogs in their kennels.....and it looks like kennels....not a place I want my next puppy to come from...home breeding for me from now on!

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Old 01-19-2008, 04:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah Tia is from Russian breeding the "Zoosfery" kennels and she is the best Dobe I have ever had,she has competed in a variety of disciplines and won her fair share of them too.
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Sweep's mother is Russian and so far I could not ask for a better puppy. don't want to jinx myself though. :bluegrab:
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Old 01-19-2008, 08:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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We have a Russian bred dog. All I can say is wonderful, enjoyable experience.
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Old 01-19-2008, 08:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I take it the dogs are imported to you?? Does the shipping cost a ton? Do you go over there to see the dogs first? I always wondered how one would go about getting an imported dog.
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Old 01-19-2008, 09:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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i saw that shipping was 600 dollars from germany, so maybe mroe like 800-1000. i guess if you have an extra couple grand layin around you could go visit them first.
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Old 01-19-2008, 09:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Is it just me or do those dogs look huge? maybe it's just that the handlers are on the smaller side. Great pics and videos, thanks for sharing.
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Old 01-19-2008, 10:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
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These guys look great, but I'm with Carol on the idea of aquiring from a kennel. Euro dobies are neat, strong, smart, big temperaments, a little less heart problems perhaps. Downside is they can't compete in AKC effectively here in US and they are EXPENSIVE with shipping etc and tougher to get good information on a remote dog. Harder to know what you're buying. They are more precocious which can be tough. There are Euro-ish dobies here that are a good alternative if you're inclined towards the Euros. I agree with Carol though, the breeder is EVERYTHING. Just my opinion and 2 cents.
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Old 01-19-2008, 10:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaslove View Post
Is it just me or do those dogs look huge? maybe it's just that the handlers are on the smaller side. Great pics and videos, thanks for sharing.
Some of the Russian dogs are big, they seem to be breeding the stockiest dogs out there. Some are more hard edge too, from what others have told me. That is not always a good thing when you want the dog for a pet. My boy comes from a breeder who imported his entire kennel here to the US from Russia around 2.5 years ago.

Petey is a doll, and has just captivated my entire family and all of our friends hearts, he is smart, calm and just completely charming. I think he would do well in SchH too. Actually....with the right owner, he could do all sorts of different dog sports....but for me, he is just my constant companion and hiking partner.

Carol & Petey!
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Old 01-19-2008, 02:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagsjr View Post
Euro dobies are a little less heart problems perhaps.
and i call you on that - bullshit.
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Old 01-19-2008, 03:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Do you know otherwise doberkim? I said "perhaps". Everything I've read seems to point to a little less DCM in Euros than ours. Please do share if you know otherwise. (And no need to get testy...)
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Old 01-19-2008, 03:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The fact that the American breeder has been at the forefront of testing and telling, and the first doberman owners out there admitting that their dogs die of DCM, doesn't mean American bred dogs get DCM any more than other lines. American doberman owners are taking out ads in Doberman Digest announcing the death due to DCM and encouraging their puppy owners to get necropsies done on their dogs, and some Euro dog owners are telling us that multiple dogs are dropping dead on the field of heat stroke or being struck by lightening.


Fact:
There has been no proof that any line of doberman is any more or less likely to get DCM, plain and simple.

Fact: There is no line of doberman that is free of DCM.

Fact: American dobermans came from European dobermans.


This is coming from someone that bought a "euro" doberman. Gasp, even from a line known to have DCM. I've never gone out and bought a purely American bred dog, but that doesn't mean I cannot be tired of trying to lay the blame of DCM on the shoulders of American breeders. I assume next we will blame the AKC for it, right
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Old 01-19-2008, 03:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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OK, I think DCM is an issue throughout the breed. Researching lines are not a fun thing no matter where they originate.

Someone mentioned cost..I spent relatively the same as a dog born here in the states or less.

This is personal choice and decision as with getting a pup from any breeder.
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Old 01-19-2008, 03:54 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think that a higher proportion of US dobers get DCM than Euros unfortunately. This is because the US dobers all came from only a few dobies originally and they all had DCM. There is a study that describes DCM by region around the world. I had it but to get it again I have to pay for it. I'm trying to get it now and I'll share it with you.
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Old 01-19-2008, 05:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I would be interested in seeing this study you speak of, since no one else has ever mentioned it.
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Old 01-19-2008, 05:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm sure you've read this -
http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...8EBCC414642234

Pretty much what we all know. (I don't claim to be an expert.)

This below describes that folks are trying to answer this question -


THE CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE DOBERMAN PROJECT - This work has also been in progress for the past 11 years. We are studying the ability of newer therapeutic measures to extend the length and quality of life for Dobermans in congestive heart failure (stage 3 DCM).
THE HOLTER PROJECT - This work has been underway for the past 6 months. The objectives of this work are to:

Determine the incidence of DCM in Dobermans in various regions of the world.
Identify markers of occult DCM in symptom free Dobermans
Identify markers for sudden death in symptom free Dobermans
Identify newer drugs to reduce the incidence of sudden death in symptom free Dobermans
Identify newer drugs to delay the progression of occult DCM to overt DCM (congestive heart failure).
What are some of our future plans with respect to research into DCM of Doberman Pinschers?


IF there is a region of the world that has healthier dobers, then it does make sense to improve the genetic diversity and inbreed those around the rest of the population. So if it's true that Euros have less DCM than US dobers it make sense, for the good of the population, to bring them in. So it's an important question that is perhaps being answered. Instead of becoming offended by the possibility, if you're interested in the betterment of the breed, you should embrace the idea that answering this question is important and don't call it "Bullshit"
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Old 01-19-2008, 05:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The myspace post is a copy of Dr. O'Grady's project, which Mary (MaryandDobes) and many others of us have taken part in, and she speaks to him personally multiple times a year. That has not proven that american dobes get DCM more than Euro dobes. That is not the goal of this study. Mary, has Mike mentioned this as a goal of what he is looking at? I think you are misinterpreting - MIke's study to my knowledge mainly includes Canadian and American dogs, not even any Euro dogs, purely because of shipping the holter around. I think you are misinterpreting the phrase as to what they mean with that one sentence.

You had said (or implied ) that there was a published study that stated that Euro dobes get DCM less than American dobes. Until then, it's still bullshit to me. As I stated, Euro breeders have been hiding behind excuses and simply not testing for decades and continue to do so - so do some american breeders, but I commend most American breeders for being forthcoming in their testing and telling. That doesn't describe that folks are trying to answer this question at all - people are trying to figure out how to PREDICT and DETECT who has DCM before the dogs get it, and determine a marker for breeding purposes. I do not believe the OVC study even cares what continent your dogs pedigree comes from - they allow rescues into the study, so pedigree is a non-issue.
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Old 01-19-2008, 05:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I did say that perhaps it's true that Euros have less heart trouble than US.

I'm still having trouble understanding why you're getting offended by the idea. PMS or some real reason for not wanting to know?
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Old 01-19-2008, 05:54 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The top objective of this study -

"THE HOLTER PROJECT - This work has been underway for the past 6 months. The objectives of this work are to:

Determine the incidence of DCM in Dobermans in various regions of the world. "
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Old 01-19-2008, 05:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:03 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Perpuating what lies? Who's "we"? Wife says there are some teas you can drink to make you a bit more sane. I've admitted that I'm no expert. Why would you be offended that this is perhaps true? I'm done too. You're an expert and way too smart for me I guess.
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by doberkim View Post
... but I commend most American breeders for being forthcoming in their testing and telling. ...
Yikes! The phrase "most American breeders" covers a lot of territory, including all the BYBs. I searched for 2 years for an American Doberman breeder (and I didn't interview any BYBs) who truly knew (or would tell) about the longevity of their bloodlines and the incidence of DCM. The vast majority of Doberman breeders would not even discuss DCM with me - when the subject came up they stopped returning email or phone calls. Where are all of these American breeders with their "DCM testing and telling"?? In my experience co-owning a vet clinic with my husband (he is a veterinarian), a huge number of American breeders of all types of registered dogs are not testing or telling anything. I'm guessing this is the same all over the world since the average buyer does not care about health stats. From everything I read and have read + the Doberman breeders I have interviewed, a pretty small number of principled Doberman breeders In America are really into getting a handle on DCM. I think there are exaggerations coming out everywhere on this topic because it is such a hot one.
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:53 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Here it is -

http://www.uniteddobermanclub.com/br...ary_3681FE.pdf

Now poke holes in it but there it is. I did say "perhaps" because I a no expert. (And neither are you.) Now answer my question. Why so offended on this issue?

Also please apologize to me.
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Old 01-19-2008, 07:10 PM   #25 (permalink)
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thanks for posting link
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