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Old 01-08-2013, 10:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Met a Sad BYB Puppy- Ktal

So, a "7 month old puppy" came in for train and board this week. The owners had him for a week and bought him for $800. His pedigree is entirely kimbertal, (both parents, etc) but a piece of crap breeder in the area "actually" bred him. Obviously he didn't sell as an 8 week old likely got a discounted price. Anyways, I heard he was very very shy and acted like he had not been exposed to anything. That sounded pretty normal, he looked sweet in his kennel, but boy was I blindsided by his issues. He knows no life outside of being in a confined kennel. He is literally afraid of air. He can not walk straight up outside unless he is along a fence, and if he is just in an open field on a leash, he crawls on the ground. If he is off leash, he crawls as quickly as possible to the nearest fence, door, or kennel looking area. Most dogs are dying to get out of kennels, but he is dying to get into them. What killed me was how dang sweet he was. He immediately attached himself to me and was most comfortable being either on top of me, or behind me. If he could have crawled inside of my skin, he would. He had a very sweet face, but the rest of his body was a disaster. He had an arched back (arched downwards), a terrible sloping croup, and his tail set was literally pointed to the ground, then pointed inward when he was outside.

I have seen many messed up dogs come through the kennel, and numerous dogs who were on their way to being put down. I have never met a dog THIS messed up this young. I desperately wanted to take him home with me.

He sat like this for half an hour and only got up because I moved. He eventually progressed to where his entire body weight was leaning back on to me. Poor thing. I can't believe this breeder was given $800.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That poor boy I can hardly imagine a dog acting like that...neither could his owners, which is perhaps why he's at the board and train? They were woefully unprepared and wanted the bargain?
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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That poor boy I can hardly imagine a dog acting like that...neither could his owners, which is perhaps why he's at the board and train? They were woefully unprepared and wanted the bargain?
I didn't hear the full story of how he got there. As far as training, they brought him to their very large home, and with all of the space, he didn't know what to do with himself. He would cower in one spot of the house then just bolt to the other side, and repeat.... apparently he also began destroying things. He is here being evaluated and worked with to see if his issues can be worked through ie can he get enough positive experiences to work through the fear or will he live the rest of his life being afraid of everything.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Poor wee guy :'(
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hope he can be fixed.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hope he can be fixed.
I've seen literally miracle work out here with some board and train 'last straw before death' dogs. I'm hopeful that he can be helped. He is at the best place he could possibly be and with some great people. I meet a lot of dogs, but I can't even explain how much I was drawn to him. He is special for sure.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I actually had adopted a Dobe much like that years back. He was scared to leave the room and terrified of people, but loved me and other dogs.

I really don't understand how people can let dogs get to be like that, it is much harder to undo than just correcting it in the first place
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I actually had adopted a Dobe much like that years back. He was scared to leave the room and terrified of people, but loved me and other dogs.

I really don't understand how people can let dogs get to be like that, it is much harder to undo than just correcting it in the first place
It's because they don't freakin' care. I've heard that a lot of puppy mill dogs that are rescued "pancake" like that, because they literally don't know any other life, other than being in a cage or pen.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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It's because they don't freakin' care. I've heard that a lot of puppy mill dogs that are rescued "pancake" like that, because they literally don't know any other life, other than being in a cage or pen.
That is terrible. People just think Dobermans are a tough/aggressive breed, little do they know how sensitive they really are. It takes advanced knowledge to understand and own a Doberman properly I have come to realize.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I've seen literally miracle work out here with some board and train 'last straw before death' dogs. I'm hopeful that he can be helped. He is at the best place he could possibly be and with some great people. I meet a lot of dogs, but I can't even explain how much I was drawn to him. He is special for sure.
Well, he's a Doberman...of course he's special I'm hoping for a miracle for him, however small. It's unimaginable to me what it must be like to be afraid of, as you say, the air.

Oh yeah, and that picture is totally adorable. Forgot to mention that!
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:41 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Poor boy, unimaginable what some low life could do, confining a young dog.
- thks Asmit, for making a difference
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Rays & Hugs to him hope he gets better.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:32 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I hate to say I seen a few dobermans like that. Maybe not as bad but have to be up next to a wall to feel some what safe. We had one that if it was in an open part of the yard it would not move. We had someone sit with the dog while we worked with other dobermans around it. She got alittle better but can only do so much at a rescue. It did leave the rescue and have not seen it again so must be doing alot better.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:23 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Aww how sad, can't imagine, infact, I have never seen ANY dog like that and hope I never have too. I know I wouldn't know how to help a dog like that. I wish you and him the very very best. Great picture by the way. Im curious, you said byb? and I think somewhere I read about dogs not getting out of their kennels. Not sure, but anyway, is this like a puppy mill kinda thing? I know of Kimbertal in PA. (I think most people do) lol.

Good Luck and update on his progress please.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:36 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Aww how sad, can't imagine, infact, I have never seen ANY dog like that and hope I never have too. I know I wouldn't know how to help a dog like that. I wish you and him the very very best. Great picture by the way. Im curious, you said byb? and I think somewhere I read about dogs not getting out of their kennels. Not sure, but anyway, is this like a puppy mill kinda thing? I know of Kimbertal in PA. (I think most people do) lol.

Good Luck and update on his progress please.
I'm confused at the question. The person 'responsible' for the dog's state is a back yard breeder here locally. The back yard breeder owns some kimbertal dogs that she is obviously breeding. It is apparent that the dog has lived in a kennel its entire life. Not sure if it "puppy mill" status, but certainly a byb.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:45 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I didn't hear the full story of how he got there. As far as training, they brought him to their very large home, and with all of the space, he didn't know what to do with himself. He would cower in one spot of the house then just bolt to the other side, and repeat.... apparently he also began destroying things. He is here being evaluated and worked with to see if his issues can be worked through ie can he get enough positive experiences to work through the fear or will he live the rest of his life being afraid of everything.
Well, the answer is yes, I'm still able to cry.

I had begun to wonder, over seeing so much of this crap.

Thank you for connecting with him, and I'm glad he is going to be worked with.

I'm not sure how many you've seen like this, but they can come back, if they have a fairly good temperament under all the institutionalization (which is what this is, along with neglect and lack of socialization).

My Mina, the little AHT, was like this. Her muscles literally stayed in spasm, she was so paralyzed with fear, would cower, pancake, crouch, unable to move. If you picked her up to move her, she was catatonic instantly.

If you can get this boy's owners to get Turid Rugaas' book on Calming Signals--that will help them de-stress him when they interact.

Are these trainers experienced and talented with dogs like this? You said you felt good about him being there, so that sounds hopeful.

It takes so much time, and patience, and I will say that, even when you think with time that they have come as far as you think they can...they will surprise you and come out of their shell even more.

It's been nearly two years with Mina, and she is just a different dog, can do so many things joyfully that I hoped for her, but was afraid to dream for her--BUT she is lately surprising me even more, opening up and blooming in yet new ways.

I hope his new owners will give him time and patience and love, although it's indeed unfortunate the crap greeder was rewarded so handsomely for abusing this sweet boy.

On a similar note, about the kennel-bound/institutionalized stuff--I got a TWH gelding years ago who was from a show barn. They keep the lights out, or very dim, in these barns, so that the horses will have "big eyes" and "be animated" when they go into the ring with all the lights. The horses are never allowed out of their stalls except to be ridden back and forth back and forth and round and round in the aisle or indoor ring.

This poor gelding levitated the first time I put him on grass. If you've never been on the other end of a lead rope when a 1200 pound animals panics and goes airborne, well, I can't say I recommend it as a calming experience

He came back from it, though, and ended up being a fabulous trail horse, who would go over or thru anything, alone, no need for other horses even.

This sweet Doberboy is young--he will likely be fine, and I will send vibes for him that he learns joy in this world of new freedom.

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I'm confused at the question. The person 'responsible' for the dog's state is a back yard breeder here locally. The back yard breeder owns some kimbertal dogs that she is obviously breeding. It is apparent that the dog has lived in a kennel its entire life. Not sure if it "puppy mill" status, but certainly a byb.
I still say Kimbertal, bad as it is in and of itself, does more harm in this world by all the many bybs it spawns.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
Well, the answer is yes, I'm still able to cry.

I had begun to wonder, over seeing so much of this crap.

Thank you for connecting with him, and I'm glad he is going to be worked with.

I'm not sure how many you've seen like this, but they can come back, if they have a fairly good temperament under all the institutionalization (which is what this is, along with neglect and lack of socialization).

My Mina, the little AHT, was like this. Her muscles literally stayed in spasm, she was so paralyzed with fear, would cower, pancake, crouch, unable to move. If you picked her up to move her, she was catatonic instantly.

If you can get this boy's owners to get Turid Rugaas' book on Calming Signals--that will help them de-stress him when they interact.

Are these trainers experienced and talented with dogs like this? You said you felt good about him being there, so that sounds hopeful.

It takes so much time, and patience, and I will say that, even when you think with time that they have come as far as you think they can...they will surprise you and come out of their shell even more.

It's been nearly two years with Mina, and she is just a different dog, can do so many things joyfully that I hoped for her, but was afraid to dream for her--BUT she is lately surprising me even more, opening up and blooming in yet new ways.

I hope his new owners will give him time and patience and love, although it's indeed unfortunate the crap greeder was rewarded so handsomely for abusing this sweet boy.

On a similar note, about the kennel-bound/institutionalized stuff--I got a TWH gelding years ago who was from a show barn. They keep the lights out, or very dim, in these barns, so that the horses will have "big eyes" and "be animated" when they go into the ring with all the lights. The horses are never allowed out of their stalls except to be ridden back and forth back and forth and round and round in the aisle or indoor ring.

This poor gelding levitated the first time I put him on grass. If you've never been on the other end of a lead rope when a 1200 pound animals panics and goes airborne, well, I can't say I recommend it as a calming experience

He came back from it, though, and ended up being a fabulous trail horse, who would go over or thru anything, alone, no need for other horses even.

This sweet Doberboy is young--he will likely be fine, and I will send vibes for him that he learns joy in this world of new freedom.



I still say Kimbertal, bad as it is in and of itself, does more harm in this world by all the many bybs it spawns.
Horses have always been my "thing" before good ole zeus came along so I totally understand your story! I even pictured the poor thing levitating outside, I understand completely!

Glad to hear that maybe he does have some hope after all.

Yes, there is not a single person in this area (state, region) that I would trust more to help this guy. Our place is the "place" they go after they've gone to every other "place". It is also where LE evaluates dogs that are reported or have bite incidents. If they are not fixed here, they are euthanized. However, I haven't seen a single dog come through and not be "fixed" in the year or so of training with them. There is always an occasionally dog who's brain is simply beyond repair, but even dogs that I personally thought fell under that category somehow transform after being out there for awhile.

The one 'bonus' to this fearful boy is at least he is not a fear biter. Most of the fearful, unexposed ones I have seen come through, are also extremely dangerous fear biters. (more like fear attackers....but you get the point). So many dogs come who have never known a life outside of their 'containers' and it is simply sickening. We had someone come out to talk about training last week with a 5 week old GSD pup..... and they had had him over a week. Then the owner tries to put the poor thing on the ground. No! You put that dog back in the car away from EVERYTHING! I would say Tennessee is full of idiots, but I guess that's just everywhere.

Long story short, yes, the trainers there are more than capable of providing the right structure and environment to helping him overcome his fears. As the dog gets better, the owners will be involved in the process as well.

Your stories are what I envision for him. I can't imagine how rewarding of an experience it would be to watch him grow, experience, and learn from those good experiences.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:16 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Could you please share his journey with us, as you're able? I'd love to see how far he comes.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:38 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Here is hoping and praying for that little guy that he gets and has the very best life has to offer. Such a crying shame he has had this awful experience in his young life.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Small update. Took him on a walk today in a different field. At first he was exactly like before, but after a few minutes he STOOD for the first time ever outside in a 'new' location. He still was too unsure to take treats, but he actually stood straight! I had him out for about an hour and we managed to walk, sniff, and look around at somethings. He had some moments of panic, but I was oh so happy with his progress. Seeing him get off the ground and actually stand on all fours was amazing. He actually has legs! Lol.

He is still obviously very uncomfortable and will only eat treats if he is touching you while sitting or laying down, but that is super progress. I think he is going to make a great recovery! He really tries hard.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:29 PM   #21 (permalink)
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What a sweet, innocent boy! Thank you for helping him!
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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there is definitely hope for him!



and you hit the nail on the head about this breed Asmit, in your comment........... " He really tries hard."

i was not sure if Chuck was going to work out here as his prey drive is so strong for life on the farm.

but I soon noticed that he really was trying so hard to be 'good'.

and he never stops trying to do the right thing.

just another reason why i love this breed.



Hugz and Hope for the boy!
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:00 AM   #23 (permalink)
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That's awesome! I'm so glad for him ^^
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:22 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Louis Dobermann would be rolling in his grace. I'm glad he has a chance at being helped. Hoping for the best!!
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:08 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Following along for updates. Thanks for working with him. That picture reminded me a lot of how Logan would sit with me when I first brought him home. He'd start off shoving himself between my arm and body, and then just melt into my lap.

Looking forward to seeing how this boy does for sure.
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