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Old 01-04-2013, 09:19 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Thumbs down would my pup be able to be a quality dog to breed

Someone help with a question. I am not trying to solicit pups it anything , I just got my.dog a year ago and he has almost 5 full generations of champs in him from Russia and Croatia. Including a lot of bob and other symbols that I don't know . Can anyone go to my breeders site it.OS very fast and simple . Sire : lance ...dam : mika.. the site is.dreamscapekennels com. I wanna know my puppys future in quality breeding that is Legit and with a repuatible non puppy mill breeder . Thanks ln advance
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:28 AM   #2 (permalink)
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There can be two human siblings from the same parents, same genetics, yet one could turn out being an Olympic gold medal athlete and the other will not have an ounce of talent or athleticism within them.

Yeah, it's impressive when there's lots of champions in a dog's pedigree, but what has your dog done to impress the dog world and prove its worth?

Titling and health testing are the fundamentals of a good breeding program. When you reach the point where you can go to a bitch owner and explain the conformational, health, temperament, and abilities of your dog and lines that would be a good compliment and match for a breeding, then you're ready.

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Old 01-04-2013, 09:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
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A good pedigree is a only one piece of the puzzle.

What are the results of your dog's health testing? Echo, holter, OFA hips/elbows, CERF eyes, thyroid panel, vWD DNA test, etc.

What conformational or working titles has your dog earned to prove its adherence to the breed standard?

Any quality breeder will require this information before being interested in breeding to your dog. A dog with no health testing or titles will not be very desirable for any decent breeder.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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i checked out your breeders web site.

one thing that i did not like is that your breeder gives puppy buyers the option of paying more to get full breeding rights.

a breeder should know which pup should go to which prospective new owner............

it is not the puppy buyers who should choose their puppy.

If a puppy buyer wants a possible show breeding dog and the breeder trusts them, then it is usually a good idea to put the prospective show pup on a non breeding until such time as the pups owner has shown, health tested, etc....then the breeder can lift the non breeding.........

it is never a good idea for a breeder to just sell any pup, to anyone, just because they have the money to pay for it.

sorry.........rambling today.

EuroChampNamedChamp.....did your breeder sell you your pup on 'open' papers?
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
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If you look at the titles of the imported dogs, they are real titles earned in a competitive setting. Many of the Eastern European dogs have done very well at the IDC and in shows worldwide. The American breeder, however, has earned those "Int Champion" titles at trials that are what serious show people would call a joke.

My concern overall would be long term health aspects. My first Schutzhund dog, S'lichobar Gvadalahara (Hara) came from those same lines. I hate to tell you but there are a lot of health problems in those same Eastern European lines. Hara died at 7 after developing massive cancerous tumors. Prior to that she had already developed Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM), as well as hypo-thyroidism and a liver problem. I noticed one of the dogs used in breeding at Dreamscape was out of Iriinland's Erato Eros. He was a stunning dog who reportedly could also work at a fair level. He died young. Carol who is a member of this site had a dog out of him, Petey, who died at less than 5 from DCM. His breeder also owned the sire of Hara, Rossisky's Kolorit Arbot Aldo who died at the age of 4. The breeder (more recently the owner of the Hismer kennel in Pennsylvania) reported Arbot Aldo's cause of death to be snake bite and the cause of death of Eros to be a reaction to a vaccination. I have a very hard time believing either of those claims. Love your puppy. If you want to show I would get involved in the UDC. There is also a possibility it may be cut out to do a fair job in bite sports such as Schutzhund (IPO), or Ringsports. If you ever decide to breed, however, the dog should be titled in a real venue, and have all of the health testing that people have mentioned here. I could site many dogs in those Russian dog pedigrees that died very young, though some have lived long full lives. It seemed like in my dog's pedigree when I went back 4 generations half lived to the age of 10-13 and half died before the age of 7.

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Old 01-04-2013, 11:50 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I didn't go to the site as I've been there before ... no big desire to go back. Each dog no matter what it's pedigree has to prove itself before being considered a breeding prospect.... then there is health testing. Pedigree is one part of the equation, and since I'm not involved with european Dobermans, I would not know much about yours.

Some of the puppies I've produced from fabulous American pedigrees, are lovely pets but I would not want them bred. If all you looked at was their pedigree, you would think that they should be. When people take dogs with even nice pedigrees and start breeding them with no real knowledge or proof of quality..... you start getting poor quality dogs quickly. Breeding good dogs of any breed is part science and part art.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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LOOK at this pedigree Dreamscape Kennel ...ya just gotta love a pedigree that you dont even know what BYBs dogs are in the pedigree

do a search here on DT , Heres 1 thread to get you started Dreamscape Kennel
Good luck in your search for a better breeder

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Old 01-04-2013, 06:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thank you everyone so far. Pardon my noobie questions in advanced. I just didn't know how things work.


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Old 01-04-2013, 06:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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We'd prefer you to come ask questions rather than try something on your own with no guidance or knowledge. Thank you for listening and I hope you will make the wise and ethical choice
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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forgot to say......Hi and welcome to Doberman Talk!!



we love pictures here on DT................hint.....hint.

Hugz to your boy!
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Welcome to DT. It can all be very confusing, but take the time to learn, perhaps, find a mentor, attend some dog shows and in time it will all make sense (sort of)
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I will post pics of my pup and will update my profile. I love my dog and am not looking to do anything irresponsible. We were considering neutering him, but he is so smart , obedient, sweet, athletic and trainable that I feel he could be a positive contribution to the dog world. I work a lot , perhaps I should look for a local dog handler that I could hopefully find to volunteer or work for a decent rate. I like the idea of introducing him to the competitive scene. As for the comments about the health, his breeder gave a strong guarantee compared to a lot of other ones that I interviewed. I'm glad to hear all the feedback. Thanks for the welcome ! I agree to have all types of testing done one day. So perhaps I should start looking in beginner show forums to stay on topic ? And last question. Is it far more expensive to get a dog a vasectomy so he could optionally be reconnected so to speak. Thanks in advance


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Old 01-04-2013, 07:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You just need to be responsible. It is actually very refreshing for someone to take in information. Where are you located?
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
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And those are some gorgeous Dobis ! Couldn't see them before because I was own the app. Ill have to figure out a way to make a cool signature like all of u.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroChampNamedChamp View Post
As for the comments about the health, his breeder gave a strong guarantee compared to a lot of other ones that I interviewed.
Welcome to DT!

I just have one question...
A lot of breeders will "guarantee" their pups, but did they go over SPECIFIC health testing of the parents? The testing was stated above by another member so I will not repeat them. vWD is the first test you should look into. I didn't see ANY testing on the breeder site on either parent...

Honestly, you are the owner and make the final say, but I would strongly advise NOT breeding and enjoying your dog
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:16 AM   #16 (permalink)
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My boy came from dreascape too. Lance is his father. I too bought him and thought look at all the champs in his pedigree. I wanted to show him and breed him how ever that didn't work out as planned. He is aggressive on leash and fearful of people. I have been working on this he has been socialized but I don't know why he acts like this. So that leaves out showing and spending time on this site a dog need to prove itself to be bred. Because of his temperament he wouldn't make a good stud dog. he is wonderful in home get him out it is much diff. Plus all the health test that is involved in breeding I would want to have them all. My neighbor wants me to breed him because of his background and my changed opinion is now it isn't so much the pedigree of the dog but what has the dog done himself. Mine will be neutered when the time comes.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:30 AM   #17 (permalink)
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There is often a good reason that certain Euro dogs are dumped on the USA market.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EuroChampNamedChamp View Post
I will post pics of my pup and will update my profile. I love my dog and am not looking to do anything irresponsible. We were considering neutering him, but he is so smart , obedient, sweet, athletic and trainable that I feel he could be a positive contribution to the dog world. I work a lot , perhaps I should look for a local dog handler that I could hopefully find to volunteer or work for a decent rate. I like the idea of introducing him to the competitive scene. As for the comments about the health, his breeder gave a strong guarantee compared to a lot of other ones that I interviewed. I'm glad to hear all the feedback. Thanks for the welcome ! I agree to have all types of testing done one day. So perhaps I should start looking in beginner show forums to stay on topic ? And last question. Is it far more expensive to get a dog a vasectomy so he could optionally be reconnected so to speak. Thanks in advance


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I highlighted a part of your post and yes I agree with all the highlighted - of course he is he is a doberman!!

I feel the same way about my dobes and the hundreds I get to meet every year volunteering with my local doberman rescue. Breeding dobermans (or any breed) should be based on a strong desire and love of the BREED not an individual dog. Many breeders have never used their "favorite" or first doberman in any breeding program because in the big picture as awesome as they are as individuals they won't/wouldn't contribute to the breed as a whole.

The world is full of dobermans sitting in rescues and shelters who are every bit as smart, obedient, sweet, athletic and trainable as your boy. Perhaps volunteering for your local rescue would be a possibility if you would like to learn more about dobermans.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:44 AM   #19 (permalink)
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The pedigrees of the dogs dreamscape is breeding are not all they look to be. Much of the information on the euro dogs is incorrect and their dogs only have the iabca bought titles.
Additionally, their guarantee appears great, but if you read it all, it is really worthless. This is why most reputable breeders do not offer guarantees like this. A dog is not a refrigerator. Are you really going to send your beloved pet back to them at 4, 5, or older after becoming attached and loving it? Are you really able to keep up with buying and giving a certain type of duvet vitamins? Research nuvet, do you really want to give those at all?
Spend some time on the Internet and on this forum doing some research, lots of reading. Best to you and your puppy!
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