european breeders/ germany - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

matthew_gordon · 12-15-2012, 07:29 PM

hi all,
when i origninally started researching dobermans i was drawn to this site.
i was helped greatly by a few of you to find an amazing breeder in australia, all was well and i had my deposit down for a pup.
i was then offered a job overseas in berlin and at first it was going to be a working holiday but now has turned into a permanent endevour.
im still wanting to get a doberman and have decided that once my residence visa goes through i would like to find the right one.

my question is this,
do any of you know any good european breeders in or around germany?
iv done a little research thus far and there seems to be a tonne of breeders so i thought id ask all of you.

any help would be most apreciated
thank you in advance

ataro · 12-15-2012, 07:45 PM

What a coincidence: I'm an Australian living in Berlin and just was on a search for a puppy. I've met several of the breeders here in and around Germany, feel free to PM me for more detailed info.

Rosamburg · 12-16-2012, 11:58 PM

Do you want to show or work? I have a friend who lives near Cologne who could refer you either way. I know a few working line breeders, mostly around the Frankfurt/Cologne area. You can send me a PM if you like.

matthew_gordon · 12-17-2012, 02:55 AM

im not after a dog for show or work im only after a pet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosamburg

Do you want to show or work? I have a friend who lives near Cologne who could refer you either way. I know a few working line breeders, mostly around the Frankfurt/Cologne area. You can send me a PM if you like.

Amelia_ · 12-17-2012, 06:46 AM

Welcome to the forum, good luck in your search

stryker2 · 12-17-2012, 07:10 AM

For lots of info you can check out Dobermann Review - portal to the dobermann world
Lots of Euro Breeders.

ICTDOBE · 12-17-2012, 11:20 AM

My boys sire is from this Kennel, he is perfect....they also have a link page on their site to other associated breeders

Van't Genebos

Rosamburg · 12-17-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stryker2

For lots of info you can check out Dobermann Review - portal to the dobermann world
Lots of Euro Breeders.

The forum on that site has been pretty dead for a long time. Also have to be a bit careful because not all of the breeders who advertise there are ethical.

matthew_gordon · 12-21-2012, 12:33 AM

hi do you know if they are mainly working dogs? im after a pet so temperament is a big thing for me.
cheers for the info

Rosamburg · 12-21-2012, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew_gordon

hi do you know if they are mainly working dogs? im after a pet so temperament is a big thing for me.
cheers for the info

On Dobermann Review most of the kennels/dogs are European show dogs. If you speak German I would look at some of the German sites. You can pm me like I offered you earlier.

SGranger Ph.D · 12-26-2012, 03:51 AM

I used Brown Chief Kennels, the only draw back is you have to fly their puppies in early if you want the tails cut, and than there are generally some issues with finding a vet willing to do it and who does a good job of it.

ataro · 12-26-2012, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGranger Ph.D

I used Brown Chief Kennels, the only draw back is you have to fly their puppies in early if you want the tails cut, and than there are generally some issues with finding a vet willing to do it and who does a good job of it.

Cropping and docking is banned in Germany, and you can be fined for it if they see you with a puppy that has unhealed ears or a bandaged tail.

SGranger Ph.D · 12-26-2012, 11:59 PM

Yikes! Can you sen them over here to crop and dock than fly them back? ^ I knew most of them didn't do it didn't realize that's why. Sorry for the bad suggestion!

Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App

Rouleaux · 12-27-2012, 12:07 AM

After day 2 or 3 of life most good vets will not dock.

I think everything starts to grow and develop, and then it becomes something not so routine. This is because you are docking the spinal cord, which we all know any unnecessary trauma is no good! After that window, it isn't just cosmetic and is much more time consuming and painful!

IMO if you are looking into a pup from Europe, docking and cropping may be out of the question. Do you know if breeders over there are on board with keeping the breed natural? It may be in your contract, etc.

Rouleaux · 12-27-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGranger Ph.D

I used Brown Chief Kennels, the only draw back is you have to fly their puppies in early if you want the tails cut, and than there are generally some issues with finding a vet willing to do it and who does a good job of it.

I am not sure this is a good idea. It is much less risky to have it done the first 1-3 days after birth than any later. Having the tails done later than that now involves spinal surgery and anesthesia. It is the same reason vets request pups be a certain number of weeks to have ears cropped.

Amelia_ · 12-27-2012, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGranger Ph.D

Yikes! Can you sen them over here to crop and dock than fly them back? ^ I knew most of them didn't do it didn't realize that's why. Sorry for the bad suggestion!

Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App

Do you really think that's ethical?

Plus, no that is not legal in most European countries which have banned cropping and docking. There was a loophole in our law (UK) where you could, if you felt inclined, take a bitch and the newborn pups across to Ireland to have them docked, but this was very stressful for the bitch and pups. This was then made illegal. It can't be painful and heal badly if the tail is done after a few days old.

If you don't care about the ethics of it, tails which are done too late generally look awful, IMO. Im not sure if it's more difficult, or looks different because the bone has grown, or if its because good vets wouldn't do it for cosmetic reasons. Maybe a combination?

ataro · 12-27-2012, 09:47 AM

Did the OP even ask for a C&D puppy? Or was that just a suggestion made by another member? The OP is from Australia, where C&D is banned, so I assumed he wasn't looking for a C&D Dobe because he didn't say anything about it specifically.

If you want a C&D puppy in Europe, the best way to go about it is to get one from one of the east European, Balkan or Baltic countries.

Rouleaux · 12-27-2012, 10:03 AM

No, it was a comment regarding having pups flown from Europe early to have their tails docked, which we all realized a normal person wouldn't fly 2 day old pups from one country to another just to have tails docked. Thus, the realization that breeder(s) are allowing their pups to be shipped out of country not only early, but to have the tails docked way after the normal docking window. IMHO that IS NOT a reputable breeder and I would not think to recommend that that action be taken! Poor pups.

So we were commenting on that.

TurgayAksoy · 12-27-2012, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amelia_

Do you really think that's ethical?

Plus, no that is not legal in most European countries which have banned cropping and docking. There was a loophole in our law (UK) where you could, if you felt inclined, take a bitch and the newborn pups across to Ireland to have them docked, but this was very stressful for the bitch and pups. This was then made illegal. It can't be painful and heal badly if the tail is done after a few days old.

If you don't care about the ethics of it, tails which are done too late generally look awful, IMO. Im not sure if it's more difficult, or looks different because the bone has grown, or if its because good vets wouldn't do it for cosmetic reasons. Maybe a combination?

My puppy was docked at 8 weeks, but I wouldn't do it that late ever again. It was just too stressful. I had to watch her constantly because she was on the go 24/7. I didn't get any sleep the first week because she just kept on trying to reach her tail even at nights. My dad and I would take turns watching her. It's nothing more than torturing them if it's not done few days after they are born.
p.s. I am def not against docking/cropping, but docking that late is crazy and unnecessary.

cath66 · 12-27-2012, 07:52 PM

I think a few posters missed a fairly important point. The OP is/will be LIVING in Germany, so wouldn't be flying a pup out of Europe anyhow. If it's not normally done in Australia or Germany, and the OP is from Australia and moving to Germany..probably not an issue!

Rouleaux · 12-27-2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cath66

I think a few posters missed a fairly important point. The OP is/will be LIVING in Germany, so wouldn't be flying a pup out of Europe anyhow. If it's not normally done in Australia or Germany, and the OP is from Australia and moving to Germany..probably not an issue!

I'm not sure the OP has seen what the thread turned into since he left. A fellow member brought up flying a dog from Europe early and having its tail docked.

It is an interesting thought. I would never want this done, but I'm sure plenty of people do this every year, and not just to dobies!

matthew_gordon · 12-28-2012, 02:07 AM

hehe thanks guys, interesting stuff. yeah im not really interested in tail docking and TOTALLY NOT INTERESTED in ear cropping. i like them how they are

the search continues, i have been recomended a couple of breeders and will email them.

Toby'shuman · 12-28-2012, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew_gordon

hehe thanks guys, interesting stuff. yeah im not really interested in tail docking and TOTALLY NOT INTERESTED in ear cropping. i like them how they are

the search continues, i have been recomended a couple of breeders and will email them.

Hi, now I may get hung for this, but I want to advise you to be very careful over your selection. I have met dozens of German Dobes and have found them all to be on the nervy side. Now these Dobes have all been from top breeders. Do not rely on simply talking to them over the phone, emailing, make a point of seeing mum, dad, uncles and aunts or whomever you can within the breeders home.
I know this is common sense, but a woman I have met who goes to the same Shutzhund club as my friend (the lady is Dutch) who has 4 Dobes has said on many occasions to me, that the breed in Germany is not what it used to be. Now some might say, what does she know. Well quite a bit I reckon seeing as she is heavily into Dobes and has 3 who are from (as she describes them) very reputable working line German breeders all of which are less than stellar when it comes to being sure of themselves.
Granted a lot has to do with socialisation when they are young, but I also think it is hardwired into these dogs because whereas my boy (who was not socialised as a pup due to the same prejudice she has suffered in this country) is slowly improving, hers don't seem to be. Of course she could have just been unlucky, things may have conspired to make her dogs the way they are, the moon was in the wrong phase when they were born.

But for all 3, (who all attend a training class 2-3 times a week) to be reactive as hell makes me wonder if there is something in what she says.

Now shall I go out and pick my own tree or will some of you guys do it for me. Bring your own rope.

ataro · 12-28-2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby'shuman

Hi, now I may get hung for this, but I want to advise you to be very careful over your selection. I have met dozens of German Dobes and have found them all to be on the nervy side. Now these Dobes have all been from top breeders. Do not rely on simply talking to them over the phone, emailing, make a point of seeing mum, dad, uncles and aunts or whomever you can within the breeders home.
I know this is common sense, but a woman I have met who goes to the same Shutzhund club as my friend (the lady is Dutch) who has 4 Dobes has said on many occasions to me, that the breed in Germany is not what it used to be. Now some might say, what does she know. Well quite a bit I reckon seeing as she is heavily into Dobes and has 3 who are from (as she describes them) very reputable working line German breeders all of which are less than stellar when it comes to being sure of themselves.
Granted a lot has to do with socialisation when they are young, but I also think it is hardwired into these dogs because whereas my boy (who was not socialised as a pup due to the same prejudice she has suffered in this country) is slowly improving, hers don't seem to be. Of course she could have just been unlucky, things may have conspired to make her dogs the way they are, the moon was in the wrong phase when they were born.

But for all 3, (who all attend a training class 2-3 times a week) to be reactive as hell makes me wonder if there is something in what she says.

Now shall I go out and pick my own tree or will some of you guys do it for me. Bring your own rope.

This is true and exactly what I have seen here, and I warned the OP about this in my PM, which is why I recommended going for mostly breeders from outside of Germany. I was at a show a month ago and the insecurity shown in the majority of the dogs was unbelievable... in fact I got a lot of amazement and comments about how my Mexican Dobe was "unbelievably stable and so calm". Not to say that she isn't, but as you can tell, she is definitely not the norm or in the majority here.

Asmit · 12-28-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby'shuman

Hi, now I may get hung for this, but I want to advise you to be very careful over your selection. I have met dozens of German Dobes and have found them all to be on the nervy side. Now these Dobes have all been from top breeders. Do not rely on simply talking to them over the phone, emailing, make a point of seeing mum, dad, uncles and aunts or whomever you can within the breeders home.
I know this is common sense, but a woman I have met who goes to the same Shutzhund club as my friend (the lady is Dutch) who has 4 Dobes has said on many occasions to me, that the breed in Germany is not what it used to be. Now some might say, what does she know. Well quite a bit I reckon seeing as she is heavily into Dobes and has 3 who are from (as she describes them) very reputable working line German breeders all of which are less than stellar when it comes to being sure of themselves.
Granted a lot has to do with socialisation when they are young, but I also think it is hardwired into these dogs because whereas my boy (who was not socialised as a pup due to the same prejudice she has suffered in this country) is slowly improving, hers don't seem to be. Of course she could have just been unlucky, things may have conspired to make her dogs the way they are, the moon was in the wrong phase when they were born.

But for all 3, (who all attend a training class 2-3 times a week) to be reactive as hell makes me wonder if there is something in what she says.

Now shall I go out and pick my own tree or will some of you guys do it for me. Bring your own rope.

I can not speak of the state of the breed in Germany.

However, to the bolded part; most of the reactive working dogs that I personally know are reactive because of their owner. As soon as someone more competent, ie professional trainer, handles the dog, the problems go away. Especially considering all 3 of her dogs are that way, that too just makes me cautious on her saying it is the dogs' origins are to blame.

Just wanted to add, there is an extremely 'reactive' dutch shepherd bitch that trains with us. I am so freaking tired of people thinking she is some vicious, blood sucking, dangerous monster. You let her off that leash and she runs up to the dogs that she "is trying to attack", and she submissive rolls then ignores the dogs completely. She has progressed to learning that her reacting is a fun little game to play with her owner. She repeatedly stays and boards at the training facility, but anytime she stays for training, she is perfect for the trainer. Bring the owner into the picture, back to reacting over anything. The bitch's bitework is solid, and she does not show nerve issues what so ever. She shows "take advantage of my poor owner" issues.

Not that all reactive dogs are like this, but most of the dogs I have personally seen labeled as reactive, are really just like that. And I personally hate the fact that people think she is some evil terrible dog when she is actually insanely sweet.