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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 10:42 AM
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im not after a dog for show or work im only after a pet
Nevada Haus - "I don't want a show dog, I just want a pet"
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 02:07 PM
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First and foremost, German dobes does not necessarily mean working line. I don't know the exact numbers but for generalities sake there are probably more than 50 (probably much more) show breeders for every working line breeder in Germany. It is also easy to mistake a nervy dog for a sharp dog. They are two different things though the sharp dog may appear at first glance to be nervy or reactive. Cairo has very high temperament and could be considered pretty sharp. In the beginning I was a bit worried that this edginess could be "nervyness". Hard training has clearly showed that she is not nervy. It has revealed she has extreme though balanced drives. She is actually pretty hard and sometimes stubborn, and when in drive has a pretty high correction threshold. These are not the hallmarks of a nervy dog. She does require an extra level of awareness in training. Part of this has also involved determining what is drama and what is real.

It also points how careful working breeders must be in knowing the full temperament of their dogs and in proper pairing of dogs to be bred. Awareness of working temperament and nerve can only be achieved through a long process of training and testing (working titles). You cannot just throw two IPO3 dogs together and think that what they produce will be great. If you take 2 edgy dogs and put them together you are likely to produce nervy dogs even if both parents are great. This is why breeders should always be striving for balance of drives and temperament when making breeding decisions. Originally the ZTP was supposed to help this process. When you had the guy who developed this process (Vogel), it was probably a worthwhile test. Now it is in the hands of show judges. I personally would not trust their working knowledge and ability to read working temperaments of a dog. Video's of how ZTP's around the world are conducted shows a lot of them are a complete joke.

If I ever breed Cairo she would be bred to a thicker nerve dog because of the level of sharpness she brings, if she were to be bred to another sharp dog it could very likely produce a litter of nervy dogs.

When I visited Germany I probably saw 40 different Dobermann's working at the 2 Dobermann clubs I visited. I did not see many examples of "nervy" dogs while there. BTW any litter, even a good litter could produce some "nervy" dogs.
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 02:19 PM
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I should have pointed out that I was referring to show dog temperaments here in Germany. Can't judge the working lines, as I've met only 2-3 dogs.

I define nervy as being afraid of everything that moves, including Chihuahuas (like at a dog show), and as a 6 month old puppy, being afraid to play with other pups. The people I saw could not even walk their dog normally to the ring, they told everyone to get back and make a path so that they could get through (their dog was lunging all wide eyed and struggling the whole minute it took to get there)... many of the dogs were hiding behind their owners with their tails between their legs, yapping the whole time, and one was disqualified for being so afraid of the judge he kept trying to escape from the ring when it was his turn to have his teeth checked.

The sad part is that this aspect of the Dobe section was very noticeable when you looked around the hall, comparing the other breeds. Even the Malinois were very calm and sedate looking in comparison.

Last edited by ataro; 12-28-2012 at 02:22 PM.
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ataro View Post
I should have pointed out that I was referring to show dog temperaments here in Germany. Can't judge the working lines, as I've met only 2-3 dogs.

I define nervy as being afraid of everything that moves, including Chihuahuas (like at a dog show), and as a 6 month old puppy, being afraid to play with other pups. The people I saw could not even walk their dog normally to the ring, they told everyone to get back and make a path so that they could get through (their dog was lunging all wide eyed and struggling the whole minute it took to get there)... many of the dogs were hiding behind their owners with their tails between their legs, yapping the whole time, and one was disqualified for being so afraid of the judge he kept trying to escape from the ring when it was his turn to have his teeth checked.

The sad part is that this aspect of the Dobe section was very noticeable when you looked around the hall, comparing the other breeds. Even the Malinois were very calm and sedate looking in comparison.
And I never visited a show in Germany. I did see some show dogs at the Schutzhund clubs I visited. I did not notice any dogs that I would consider super nervy, especially the way you are describing nervy. That is what I would call a "nervebag".
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